GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 6

[SmoothOperator]

The Telegraph has also learned that authorities found what resembled fingernail scratches on McDaniel, two sources familiar with the murder investigation say. Police found the marks on McDaniel’s torso when he was booked into the Bibb County jail on burglary charges.

Torso.. What resembled to be fingernail scratches were found on SM's torso when he was being booked into Bibb Co.. He was arrested July,1.. Lauren's disappearance as well as IMO most likely died as well late night of June 25 or wee early morning hours of June 26.. That is almost a full week length of time to have passed between the murder(where and when I feel most likely the scrape/scratch injuries were received on SM's torso).. Almost a full week is a good amount of time to have passed giving fingernail scratches a pretty good amount of time to have been healed IMO.. I am actually surprised they were still visible.. Of course I am thinking of just "scratches" when given the situation and I feel that if they are indeed as what police suspect they that they are.. Then I'd say it could be quite likely these were defensive wounds inflicted by the victim onto her perpetrator during the attack/murder.. Therefor I could see it possibly for them to be quite significant in nature meaning that in fighting for one's life and only to be able to sadly maneuver one's self into a position that the victim could only retaliate at that time with her nails.. I imagine that they could be quite deep and/or severe injuries inflicted as an attempt to wound her perp..

I must say something that immediately struck me when I very first heard that this was thought to have been found on SM(the scratches on his torso).. I must admit my very first intuition was the bright young woman, even at this time in fighting for her very life was possibly thinking "outside the box" of the moment at hand.. Possibly realizing that she may not get out of the situation alive and was grasping amd attempting to leave behind clues by having her perpetrators DNA under her fingernails.. Some may find that far fetched, but infact it's been proven to be the case in several cases over the years that it was only the victims possibly thinking about what would become of this killer if she weren't able to survive the attack, thus leading them to cleverly leave behind evidence of their perp in a place such as under her nails..

So, while I feel at least it is a possibility of why the scratches were inflicted as definitely number one to attempt to wound her perp and possibly number two to leave behind his DNA under her nails.. Just as Lauren may have been knowledgable of cases with this exact type DNA link as to solving murders.. So, too would SM quite likely have that same knowledge as well.. Therefor he took measures to prohibit this from being left to find and trace back to him.. He ensured there'd be no analysis going to be done of Lauren's fingernail scrapings..
This makes me terribly saddened to think about what wouldve or could've been going thru her mind in the moments such as this and others leading up to her losing consciousness..

So, when looking at the scratches on SM's torso from thAt perspective(done out of self defense and/or in thinking ahead and ensuring DNA from the perp under her fingernails) from that view I can easily see how that there's a great possibility those type injuries would not have been completely and quickly healed in under a week's time as a small surface scratch normally would be.. But rather there's a great chance they were pretty deep claw marks that had been healing for nearly that week's time since they were inflicted.. Indicating she really put up a fight of resistance (even thru what I imagine to be an ambush style attack with her at a disadvantage and left vulnerable).. Even tho she still fought like hell as well as dug her nails into his skin hoping that he'd not stand a chance of not being found out as her murderer..

Just some thoughts and opinions(and nothing more) in speaking of some of the newer info that has come to light..

 

[SmoothOperator]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Even if they aren't serious scratch marks...for example, if he surprised her while sleeping. I think they definitely at least disprove what her family was told - "that she probably didn't know what hit her."

I just truly hope that she did not suffer greatly. I fear that as more is revealed, the reality of what happened is going to be very gruesome. I can't really word what I want to say in a way that doesn't sicken me - I just hope that if she was raped, or whatever else, that she was unconscious and not aware of the horror taking place. Ugh...can't even think of worse, it gives me chills.

I think that by August 17th (commitment hearing), we will definitely know alot more.

And if he has scratches from Lauren..well, that DNA match, if they could get one, would shut the case.

^above^ BBM.. Yes I agree this could've indeed guaranteed a link of SM to the murder.. But sadly SM ensured that no one be able to even have access to Laurens fingernails in order to retrieve the DNA that would have been left under her nails..

I don't believe that it could be linked in the opposite direction, such as testing SM's scratches to find DNA of Lauren somehow on or in the scratched injuries.. Jmo, tho.. I could be wrong about that last part, but I would think it not possible..

 

[SouthernKate]

If he did have scratches would they be able to tell anything from them? Like, I am assuming they didn't examine them immediately when he was just a thief so wouldn't they be gone by now?

I'm pretty sure that McD has never been just a thief in their minds. I think he was on their radar immediately, for her murder, so I'm sure they took notice of the marks. That's just my opinion, but it has been said by Chief Burns that everything in their investigation always led back to him, so I have to assume that from very early on, they were focusing on him. He was the only POI named, so I hope that maybe some thought was given to those scratch marks in the first few days after his arrest on the burglary charges.

 

[SouthernKate]

^above^ BBM.. Yes I agree this could've indeed guaranteed a link of SM to the murder.. But sadly SM ensured that no one be able to even have access to Laurens fingernails in order to retrieve the DNA that would have been left under her nails..

I don't believe that it could be linked in the opposite direction, such as testing SM's scratches to find DNA of Lauren somehow on or in the scratched injuries.. Jmo, tho.. I could be wrong about that last part, but I would think it not possible..

I do agree with you on that - probably no DNA could be yielded from the scratch marks on him. However, it could help in adding to the mountain of obvious other things stacked against him (key, hacksaw, describing how he could kill someone).

Of course, and I hope, there is always the possibility that her other remains could be found. But again, after so long of a time, there might not be any DNA evidence they could use.

 

[Darcyline]

I'm pretty sure that McD has never been just a thief in their minds. I think he was on their radar immediately, for her murder, so I'm sure they took notice of the marks. That's just my opinion, but it has been said by Chief Burns that everything in their investigation always led back to him, so I have to assume that from very early on, they were focusing on him. He was the only POI named, so I hope that maybe some thought was given to those scratch marks in the first few days after his arrest on the burglary charges.

This is true, but I guess I was wondering if they would have enough to photograph or do forensics on the scratches. I am sure they noticed them, but are there pictures? I guess forensics would be difficult/impossible due to the length of time the scratches would have been there though.

 

[SmoothOperator]

For anyone who may know please chime in.. Just rereading some of the articles from today(technically yesterday..lol) and in speaking of what we learned today from the arrest warrant.. That SM not only had that master key that unlocked all apts in the complex, but that he also had in his possession of an individual key to Lauren's apt..

So in speaking of this "master key" that was found right away just hours after Lauren's torso was discovered.. We know that Burns has stated as well about the master key was found to be in SM's possession of his apt..

So my question is this.. Is a master key in some way unique in it's design, shape, etc from any other apt key? Is it somehow permanently labeled with an indication that the specific key is a "master key"?? Or in any other manner is the master key found to be differing from that of a regular/standard apt door key??

My reason being I'd like to know what it was that drew LE to the "master key", why was it even noticed or utilized to even attempt to see if it unlocked more apt residences than that just of the perp who had possession of such key??

Just as is with those dang mystery condoms.. It certainly seems as tho there were indeed something that was noticeable and stood out to even have police question the items or even attempt to see whether the key would universally fit all locks in the apt complex.. It seems to me that somehow the key has got to differ in appearance or labeling for LE to even come up with the idea to test it out on other apt residences door locks in the complex to see if it worked and therefor gained access to enter the apts..

Anyone who knows thanks In advance.. As IMO common Sense tells me they must be unique and/or different in some way for LE to come up with the notion that the key possibly was a master..

TIA to anyone could help me to answer this question concerning the master key..

 

[SouthernKate]

SmoothOperator - I'm looking on howstuffworks.com, but it's very detailed and I'm kind of having to seek out different articles/explanations. I'll let you know if I can make sense of it.

 

[Sandstorm]

If he did have scratches would they be able to tell anything from them? Like, I am assuming they didn't examine them immediately when he was just a thief so wouldn't they be gone by now?

Darcyline,
I think LE was suspicious of McD from the 'get-go'. Remember, LE was at Barristers Hall Apts early Thursday morning, June 30th. That was the day they discovered Lauren's body and the day McD spotlighted himself on the camera.

The very next morning, July 1, at 5:40 AM LE was banging on McD apt door and arrested him for burglary and took him to the police station. IMO, that is when they examined him and discovered the scratches on his torso. I imagine he had washed himself with a few bottles of clorox by that time. Considering the proposed timeline of events, the scratches may have had 5 days of healing time. IMO, LE took pictures of McD's scratches when they first took him to jail on July 1.

Scratches on McD'S torso..... a bad detail. Now that this information has been confirmed, everytime I see McD's blank stare photo I can't help but think of Lauren fighting for her life, and the last thing she saw was his grimaced face as he overpowered her.
That thought has certainly changed my perception of that 'serene look' he postured at his court appearance.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

But, what we're seeing now was just what they gave to get that warrant.
They can bring up more at the commitment hearing, correct?
So, it may just be they didn't want to reveal anymore than they had to to get the initial warrant.

Precisely. Much more WILL come out at the commitment hearing. Probably not everything, depending on how well Buford conducts his cross-examination of any witnesses the state puts up, but much more than we know now at least.

 

[JeannieC]

^above^ BBM.. Yes I agree this could've indeed guaranteed a link of SM to the murder.. But sadly SM ensured that no one be able to even have access to Laurens fingernails in order to retrieve the DNA that would have been left under her nails..

I don't believe that it could be linked in the opposite direction, such as testing SM's scratches to find DNA of Lauren somehow on or in the scratched injuries.. Jmo, tho.. I could be wrong about that last part, but I would think it not possible..

That's an interesting concept. I guess if someone was swabbed immediately after an attack it would work but probably not after bathing. I wonder if she bite him. He certainly made sure his DNA disappeared...or at least he thinks he did. (I'm saying he, I realize a person is innocent until proven guilty or in one case for lack of evidence which is not the case this time, Thank God)

 

[Wondergirl]

That's consistent with my experience over the years. Something new I learned from reading the warrant is that he not only had a master key to all of the apartments, but also a key to LG's apartment. Now, did he have it prior to the crime? Or did he take it from her key ring after the crime? I'm thinking about the missing persons report that stated her keys were on the sofa. Did anyone check to see which keys? And if he had a master key, why did he need her key?

So many questions.

http://media.macon.com/static/graphics/0805McDanielWarrant.jpg

BBM: Maybe it's the chronological order.

Stolen/Copied Key #1: Lauren's Key

Stolen/Copied Key #2: Master Key

He realized he needed the Master Key to spread the evidence out and get into the vacant apartment.

 

[Wondergirl]

I would like to know if SM said this because of experience.

at some point in the past McDaniel allegedly said “he could commit murder.”

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/05/1655484/warrant-mcdaniel-claimed-he-could.html#ixzz1U9tiEiPO

 

[oldercitizen]

The Wal Mart issue came up several weeks back when it was reported that LE had gone thru MCDaniel's recent Wal Mart purchases from the store there in Macon.. No one, to my knowledge knows what those items were but wonder if they mave have been items such as tools to dismember and products used for the clean up were a few of the ideas we thought of..

Now in seeing the arrest warrant that there has been found a particular brand hacksaw with Lauren Giddings DNA on the blade and the packaging for that identical type saw was found in SM's apt.. Thus further fueling the "scuttle butt" of could it have been one of the Wal Mart purchases..

HTH!

I remember reading early on in WS during the discussion on what the torso was wrapped in, someone saying that there was a purchase of two ponchos by SM from Walmart

 

[Wondergirl]

I would also like to know if the reason SM admitted to stealing the condoms in the apartment, was to give a reason for being in the apartments, a reason why LE would find evidence of him being there (burglary) as opposed to murder (or stalking etc.).

Did LG know the residents of the condom theft apartments?

Was SM casing those apartments to glean information for his crime against Lauren (or others)?

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

Friday morning thoughts: In response to a few items, it will be interesting to know what gaming McD was into, what game was it that caused him to yell out and cuss so loudly the downstairs neighbor could hear it, something like Die, all you SB's or something ? The Columbine kids were into this, and wanted to see it happen in real life. I myself am only a classically trained gamer, so anything beyond Pac Man or Donkey Kong is beyond my point of expertise.
As far as I can tell, the fired maintenance man does exist, it was reported he was terminated prior to the murder.And IF, (big if here) , but Charles E . brought up this morning, the hacksaw was in a locked maintenance storage cabinet that McD's master key did not open, well well... I do find it interesting they are only just now removing the tub after a Channel 13 reporter pointed out the scratches. It has been over a month, that should have been noticed by anybody on day 1. The warrant I read makes not mention of Stephen making the comment to "someone" at "some time" the he could commit murder and get away with it. If he did it just to see if he could get away with it, he has failed miserably, and he forgot to follow the directions about not leaving any packaging around in your apartment that you used to commit the murder with . I spoke to a doctor last night. To dismember a body using a hacksaw is a very long tedious process, and requires a good deal of strength. The neck area is the hardest to cut through as well as the shoulders. Plus, he would have needed to wait about four hours post mortem for the blood to coagulate or else there would be blood everywhere upon the dismemberment. We will find out a lot more at the commitment hearing, but still not everything . I think MPD is doing a good job here, their job is not to have McD convicted in the court of public opinion but in a court of law; there is a fine balancing act between the public's right to know and telling what all you know. And I don't mean to go all Harry Dexter philosophical on everyone, but there is also a fine line between sanity and insanity:
“Doesn’t matter how good you are at keeping all your worlds separate. Eventually they’re going to collide.”
“I just know there’s something dark in me. I hide it. Certainly don’t talk about it. But it’s there. Always. This dark passenger .When he’s driving I feel alive. Half-sick w/the thrill of complete wrongness. I don’t fight him… He’s all I’ve got.” –

 

[bessie]

I'm pretty sure that McD has never been just a thief in their minds. I think he was on their radar immediately, for her murder, so I'm sure they took notice of the marks. That's just my opinion, but it has been said by Chief Burns that everything in their investigation always led back to him, so I have to assume that from very early on, they were focusing on him. He was the only POI named, so I hope that maybe some thought was given to those scratch marks in the first few days after his arrest on the burglary charges.

You're right. The detectives probably looked over him and all of the friends they interviewed the very first morning for obvious signs of an altercation, i.e., bruises or scratches, on the visible parts of their bodies. That's SOP. In fact, many of us looked for marks on his body in the interview and initial court appearance video. Naturally, it wasn't until he was booked into jail that they were able to see other parts of his body and then made note of the scratches on his torso.

 

[JeannieC]

BBM: Maybe it's the chronological order.

Stolen/Copied Key #1: Lauren's Key

Stolen/Copied Key #2: Master Key

He realized he needed the Master Key to spread the evidence out and get into the vacant apartment.

Maybe he made a copy of the key in the vase outside her apartment either before or after the crime. With people moving out he might have thought the master key wouldn't work if they changed locks and didn't they loose a maintenance worker? Maybe he thought they would change the locks because of that but it sounds to me like that apartment management did a very sorry job of tracking master keys. jmo

 

[JeannieC]

Friday morning thoughts: In response to a few items, it will be interesting to know what gaming McD was into, what game was it that caused him to yell out and cuss so loudly the downstairs neighbor could hear it, something like Die, all you SB's or something ? The Columbine kids were into this, and wanted to see it happen in real life. I myself am only a classically trained gamer, so anything beyond Pac Man or Donkey Kong is beyond my point of expertise.
As far as I can tell, the fired maintenance man does exist, it was reported he was terminated prior to the murder.And IF, (big if here) , but Charles E . brought up this morning, the hacksaw was in a locked maintenance storage cabinet that McD's master key did not open, well well... I do find it interesting they are only just now removing the tub after a Channel 13 reporter pointed out the scratches. It has been over a month, that should have been noticed by anybody on day 1. The warrant I read makes not mention of Stephen making the comment to "someone" at "some time" the he could commit murder and get away with it. If he did it just to see if he could get away with it, he has failed miserably, and he forgot to follow the directions about not leaving any packaging around in your apartment that you used to commit the murder with . I spoke to a doctor last night. To dismember a body using a hacksaw is a very long tedious process, and requires a good deal of strength. The neck area is the hardest to cut through as well as the shoulders. Plus, he would have needed to wait about four hours post mortem for the blood to coagulate or else there would be blood everywhere upon the dismemberment. We will find out a lot more at the commitment hearing, but still not everything . I think MPD is doing a good job here, their job is not to have McD convicted in the court of public opinion but in a court of law; there is a fine balancing act between the public's right to know and telling what all you know. And I don't mean to go all Harry Dexter philosophical on everyone, but there is also a fine line between sanity and insanity:
“Doesn’t matter how good you are at keeping all your worlds separate. Eventually they’re going to collide.”
“I just know there’s something dark in me. I hide it. Certainly don’t talk about it. But it’s there. Always. This dark passenger .When he’s driving I feel alive. Half-sick w/the thrill of complete wrongness. I don’t fight him… He’s all I’ve got.” –

You have brought up some very good points. Things that add questions to the evidence........

 

[tomkat]

Is it possible he got flustered when they found the body? If her remains had went in the dump truck that morning would it be possible that we would be discussing her as a missing person case and that his apartment would never be searched? Maybe he made some last minute dumb mistakes when he realized the body had been found. I think someone on here predicted that maybe he had an overly complicated plan of some sort and was interrupted in the middle by friends coming and the torso being found.

And that was dumb too. Wonder why someone would think that a person would never be looked for??? maybe with testing/studying he thought he might have until the weekend instead of Wenesday/Thursday, therefore got ina hurry and had to rid the body that evening. Still wondering WHERE The body was hidden Wenesday when friends went looking for her. And all that week, not in her apt obviously!

 

[tomkat]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Even if they aren't serious scratch marks...for example, if he surprised her while sleeping. I think they definitely at least disprove what her family was told - "that she probably didn't know what hit her."

I just truly hope that she did not suffer greatly. I fear that as more is revealed, the reality of what happened is going to be very gruesome. I can't really word what I want to say in a way that doesn't sicken me - I just hope that if she was raped, or whatever else, that she was unconscious and not aware of the horror taking place. Ugh...can't even think of worse, it gives me chills.

I think that by August 17th (commitment hearing), we will definitely know alot more.

And if he has scratches from Lauren..well, that DNA match, if they could get one, would shut the case.

I hate that, why was he shirtless? Where was he? Hidden? KNocked on door? But apprentley, sadly, she struggled, I just wish she'd succeeded. I did NOT see him overtaking anyone with his small stature/weight. Very disturbing.