GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

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PsychoMom said:
As I said, once we see all the evidence, we may find out what we are missing. Yet, if he ends up being innocent, then all the conjecture in the world won't make him a monster. I do not feel I could vote guilty simply on what we have now. I am going to keep searching for the clue, because, as stated, that is what people in the field of psychology do. We ask questions, and we look for all the clues.

I am intrigued by the profile you posted. Can you provide a link regarding how this profile was determined? It would help everyone to get an idea of how profiles are determined. I have been trained in some profiling, but it is not a specialty of mine. I would enjoy having some good references to turn to.
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If I could give you a homework assignment it would be to watch back to back episodes of whatever the show was the features the work of Dayle Hinman.
 
ThinMan said:
Wow~! Websleuths are great even at sleuthing our own previous posts! Many thanks to SuperSleuth, GypsiesTramps&Thieves and Southern Comfort for tracking down the origin of the Fish 'n Pig story (from LG's cousin who was there) and the point at which it was questioned by HarryPotter). HP's questioning (which I admit I mistook for more than opinion) was based on the doubt that just because SMD was at the restaurant didn't mean he had "crashed the private party."

Whatever the truth of that event -- whether he crashed it or was coincidentally there or there with someone's invitation -- I raised the issue to query whether it was good grounds for the infatuation theory of SMD's motivation to murder. It still seems (to me, JMO) a slender reed on which to support a theory that he was so driven by infatuation that he did the deed.

JMO, of course, but it remains my opinion that the "beauty and the beast" motivation theory is not very well supported by facts that we actually know we know about SMD & LG.

With thanks to all and malice toward none . . . peace ~
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In terms of the motive:

There is a thin line between love and hate in crimes like these. At any rate, *if the rumors of sexual assault prior to/after death prove to be true*, based on collective knowledge of violent and sexually motivated crimes, if a friend/acquaintance is the victim, it is usually because the killer had some level of fixation on the victim. It could be hatred, it could be infatuation, but lust is most certainly involved and obsession of some sort is likely due to the risks involved with killing someone closely linked to you. A strong urge to target that particular person overrides the need to be cautious and avoid risk by targeting someone who would not be readily linked back to you.
 
http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html
This is pretty interesting.
...
There is an underlying psychological competition associated to dismembering victims and the situation is not finalized until mutilation is complete. This individual receives psychological gratification from killing and harming others and takes their time in doing so. They also tend to be hands on in their killing, so they will use their hands for torturing them or hands-on weapons.

It is highly plausible that dismemberment is often times associated with hiding a body. The psychological connotation associated to the killer that proceeds to dismember a victim for the purpose of concealing the body is psychologically aware of their wrongdoing. They are more likely to take precautionary measures in dismembering to evade any possible detection as a suspect in the killing. They may also agree to take a polygraph as an additional means to corroborate with reducing or even eliminating the plausibility of being culpable for the crime in question.
...
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More before and after this section.
 
PsychoMom said:
Wow! I was trying to find some info on criminal profiling and found this: http://www.fbijobs.gov/611.asp The requirements to be a qualified 'profiler' (the FBI doesn't use that term) are extensive. Advanced degree and then a minimum 3 years as an FBI agent, usually 8-10 years as an agent. DANG! You gotta start young to do this. I feel even older just reading about it. You got your work cut out for you. Go for it!
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Tell me about it :/
I even plan to join the police force within a year, and also continue on with graduate school, just to stack the deck because the FBI really likes you to have experience in LE! It may prove impractical to attempt grad school while also working as a police officer, lol, I may just choose grad school, but I'd like to try because it is so competitive, so many people want to work for the FBI.
 
PsychoMom said:
Wow! I was trying to find some info on criminal profiling and found this: http://www.fbijobs.gov/611.asp The requirements to be a qualified 'profiler' (the FBI doesn't use that term) are extensive. Advanced degree and then a minimum 3 years as an FBI agent, usually 8-10 years as an agent. DANG! You gotta start young to do this. I feel even older just reading about it. You got your work cut out for you. Go for it!
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What's weird is that Pat Brown just decided to call herself a criminal profiler one day, before they had courses etc...and she sure got famous off of that...
 
PsychoMom said:
As I said, once we see all the evidence, we may find out what we are missing. Yet, if he ends up being innocent, then all the conjecture in the world won't make him a monster. I do not feel I could vote guilty simply on what we have now. I am going to keep searching for the clue, because, as stated, that is what people in the field of psychology do. We ask questions, and we look for all the clues.

I am intrigued by the profile you posted. Can you provide a link regarding how this profile was determined? It would help everyone to get an idea of how profiles are determined. I have been trained in some profiling, but it is not a specialty of mine. I would enjoy having some good references to turn to.
Click to expand...

I agree, I could not and would not vote guilty on the confirmed information made public at this juncture.
I will work on finding a website like that I can link, seriously, because that would be a great resource to have here. I don't know of one, aside from the university pages for online course content that my professors provide only during the course, other than that I use my text books/notes from class. I would really love to find something on the web, provided by a reliable source, to provide as a link so you all don't think I am making this up out of thin air, but if that proves difficult maybe one of the mods can explain to me the rules for posting textbook content?
 
angelanalyzes said:
Tell me about it :/
I even plan to join the police force within a year, and also continue on with graduate school, just to stack the deck because the FBI really likes you to have experience in LE! It may prove impractical to attempt grad school while also working as a police officer, lol, I may just choose grad school, but I'd like to try because it is so competitive, so many people want to work for the FBI.
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I have a coworker who recently applied with the FBI. It is a process! Have you even thought about which grad school? Seems like finding one with this specialty would be quite a chore. My coworker has been out of grad school for about 2 years already. She is about to miss her age window.
 
PsychoMom said:
I have a coworker who recently applied with the FBI. It is a process! Have you even thought about which grad school? Seems like finding one with this specialty would be quite a chore. My coworker has been out of grad school for about 2 years already. She is about to miss her age window.
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My dream school is John Jay College of Criminal Justice :heart:
 
angelanalyzes said:
What I would love to have seen is an unsub/offender profile developed before Stephen was ever named a POI or suspect [it tends to taint the objectivity of the profile in the eyes of some people] done by someone like Roy Hazelwood in terms of what kind of person he'd expect to commit the Lauren Giddings murder. From what I know as a student, I do expect that given the circumstances of the crime, a few things would have been included in that profile IMO:

-Unmarried male, solitary
-Above average to high IQ
-Highly familiar and comfortable with the property
-Known to the victim

A much more detailed profile could be developed with information from the autopsy and other facts of the case not made public.
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Angel,
Do you think a profile was completed for this crime even though they almost immediately had a suspect in custody? I would think so, but I am not really familiar with the protocol of such things.
 
pearl said:
Angel,
Do you think a profile was completed for this crime even though they almost immediately had a suspect in custody? I would think so, but I am not really familiar with the protocol of such things.
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I do believe that during the phase of the investigation where Stephen McDaniel was still just a POI, the FBI did complete some kind of profile to provide the MPD with to assist in the investigation. It may have been an informal thing drawn up on a dry erase board, it may have been an official report, but it was purely for investigative purposes and at no point would it be used at trial.
 
I wonder what the status is on LG's family's interest in searching the Twiggs County landfill?

Also, I never got an answer from anyone about what would be involved in getting a warrant
to search some of SM's family's lands. Still wonder about that, especially since it appears SM
missed that Monday BarBri class. Maybe if SM's family is so sure of his innocence, they would
simply give their permission to have properties checked out?
 
angelanalyzes said:
In terms of the motive:

There is a thin line between love and hate in crimes like these. At any rate, *if the rumors of sexual assault prior to/after death prove to be true*, based on collective knowledge of violent and sexually motivated crimes, if a friend/acquaintance is the victim, it is usually because the killer had some level of fixation on the victim. It could be hatred, it could be infatuation, but lust is most certainly involved and obsession of some sort is likely due to the risks involved with killing someone closely linked to you. A strong urge to target that particular person overrides the need to be cautious and avoid risk by targeting someone who would not be readily linked back to you.
Click to expand...

I've been (and remain) quite a fan of yours, AA. In fact, I found WS via your Tumblr blog.

But I think there is a logical problem in your post above. We were inquiring into SMD's possible infatuation with LG for the purpose of determining (in our own judgment) whether that provided a motive for SMD to commit the homicide.

Your post says: IF there actually was a sexual component to this homicide, then -- in cases involving friends & acquaintances as victims -- then there is usually fixation. on the victim by the killer.

Your syllogism basically says IF SMD KILLED LG W/SEXUAL ACTS INVOLVED, then there was, indeed, fixation (lust & obsession).

That's fine, but it doesn't help us decide whether SMD killed LG w/sexual acts involved.

What I was trying to determine was: whether there was independent evidence of an obsession/infatuation. I italicize independent to highlight that I mean "independent of a guess that SMD did it." The purpose of my inquiry was to see whether there was any quasi-logical reason that SMD might have a motive for homicide.

For those of us trying to determine whether we personally believe SMD did it, your statement that "If he did it, he was obsessed." just isn't helpful. It presupposes the conclusion we're trying to inquire into.

I hope that makes sense. I lost myself a couple of times in there. :)
 
justiceforlauren said:
I am just assuming what was probably meant or what I have been thinking: is it professional in your profession to be so argumentative on this board and then to state you are a therapist? Are you trying to influence people on this blog? Angel is a studying professional in this crime field, and she is in no way argumentative or persuading. I love reading her entries, because I know I might learn something, and I do not have to feel scared if I do not agree with her. Many of us on here do not want to be verified and are privy to information that has been rumored and now has come out as fact, but the other information we have that has not come out; we do not want to say. We do not want anything done to jeopardize this case. We all want justice for LG's family. I am not trying to sound offensive, but I hate reading all the bickering because bloggers aren't wanting to give information in this case. A true professional, friend of Laurens or Stephens and others with dignity will keep as much information close to their heart, so the courts can do their job. Again, i am not meaning to be offensive, as I probably should just learn to use the functions on this site, that can help aid with not feeling the tense energy.
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PsychoMom said:
I do question where people get information. Some people indicate a close relationship when, in reality, it may not be that. It may be hearing internet rumors like we all do. If that kind of information is presented as insider knowledge, it is not accurate. Yet, if someone is truly close to the investigation, their insight could prove invaluable. I think it is fair to know where the information originates. It is also dangerous for someone to present themselves as an expert in an area where they are not. While it could damage the integrity of the discussion, worse, it could cause someone reading to use the information in their day to day lives and someone could end up hurt.

I ask questions in all areas, not just one. It helps clarify information. By questioning, it fosters more discussion and more knowledge on the subject. As for personal knowledge, I do have experience, education, and skill in the mental health area. So if someone posts inaccurate information regarding a mental illness diagnosis, I try to provide accurate information. I have not diagnosed anyone on here, as has been suggested. I have explained what a certain diagnoses might look like, and I usually provide a link with more info.

If you look closely, the attacks seem to be directed at those who are considering other options than McD being the perp. Most of us who do that are not saying he must be innocent, but we want to make sure we rule out the possibility of anyone else. The best way to rule out anyone else is to try to prove someone else did it. If you can't prove someone else did it, it eliminates the possibility of his innocence. However, it seems to set off a few people. Something none of us want to have happen.

Believe it or not, I am really pretty lovable. I like to joke and have fun in discussions. Here, I am definitely not feeling the love. But, I am not giving up. I want this crime resolved ASAP. I have a personal reason for that desire. In the meantime, I can only hope the information I have helps some people.
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BBM: Psychomom, do you not believe the crime is resolved?

Do you think LE has charged the correct person for Lauren's murder?
 
~SuperSleuth~ said:
I wonder what the status is on LG's family's interest in searching the Twiggs County landfill?

Also, I never got an answer from anyone about what would be involved in getting a warrant
to search some of SM's family's lands. Still wonder about that, especially since it appears SM
missed that Monday BarBri class. Maybe if SM's family is so sure of his innocence, they would
simply give their permission to have properties checked out?
Click to expand...

This reminds me of Hailey Dunn's case, where we have wondered if Sean Adkins' family lands have been searched and how they could legally do so...I don't think we know, even now, if they were...
 
Wondergirl said:
BBM: Psychomom, do you not believe the crime is resolved?

Do you think LE has charged the correct person for Lauren's murder?
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I mean 'resolved' as in the perp convicted and locked away until whatever comes next. As for the correct person, I hope they do, but we won't know until we get him to trial and see all the evidence. So, until we know, I will keep my options open.
 
ThinMan said:
I've been (and remain) quite a fan of yours, AA. In fact, I found WS via your Tumblr blog.

But I think there is a logical problem in your post above. We were inquiring into SMD's possible infatuation with LG for the purpose of determining (in our own judgment) whether that provided a motive for SMD to commit the homicide.

Your post says: IF there actually was a sexual component to this homicide, then -- in cases involving friends & acquaintances as victims -- then there is usually fixation. on the victim by the killer.

Your syllogism basically says IF SMD KILLED LG W/SEXUAL ACTS INVOLVED, then there was, indeed, fixation (lust & obsession).

That's fine, but it doesn't help us decide whether SMD killed LG w/sexual acts involved.

What I was trying to determine was: whether there was independent evidence of an obsession/infatuation. I italicize independent to highlight that I mean "independent of a guess that SMD did it." The purpose of my inquiry was to see whether there was any quasi-logical reason that SMD might have a motive for homicide.

For those of us trying to determine whether we personally believe SMD did it, your statement that "If he did it, he was obsessed." just isn't helpful. It presupposes the conclusion we're trying to inquire into.

I hope that makes sense. I lost myself a couple of times in there. :)
Click to expand...

OH. I see what you mean, rather than working back from the assumption that SMD did it and trying to figure out why, you are starting from a place void of the assumption of guilt at all, and thus are trying to determine if there is evidence of infatuation that would thus provide motive. My bad. Earlier posts from other members have debated whether the motive was anger or infatuation or something entirely different, with the assumption that SMD may have done it, but that is not your line of thought/inquiry. I misinterpreted.
 
angelanalyzes said:
OH. I see what you mean, rather than working back from the assumption that SMD did it and trying to figure out why, you are starting from a place void of the assumption of guilt at all, and thus are trying to determine if there is evidence of infatuation that would thus provide motive. My bad. Earlier posts from other members have debated whether the motive was anger or infatuation or something entirely different, with the assumption that SMD may have done it, but that is not your line of thought/inquiry. I misinterpreted.
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Thanks for following my line of thought. It IS helpful to ask "if he did it, why did he do it?" But that is different from asking "Do we know that he had a motive for murder?" The latter question then sets up the conclusion, "Because he had a motive (as well as opportunity, etc), then he probably did it."

Still your fan ~
 
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