GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

[~SuperSleuth~]

This reminds me of Hailey Dunn's case, where we have wondered if Sean Adkins' family lands have been searched and how they could legally do so...I don't think we know, even now, if they were...

Well, I keep asking this because I feel like there was definitely an emotional aspect to this crime.
Either he desired her in some fashion, or he loathed her.
I tend toward the former... otherwise, I feel like he could have gotten rid of the torso.
So, depending on the type of 'desire' he had for her, I feel like there's a chance
he would have found it difficult to just discard her head.
I could be wrong, but it sure seems like checking into this would be worth the effort.

 

[angelanalyzes]

Thanks for following my line of thought. It IS helpful to ask "if he did it, why did he do it?" But that is different from asking "Do we know that he had a motive for murder?" The latter question then sets up the conclusion, "Because he had a motive (as well as opportunity, etc), then he probably did it."

Still your fan ~

I'm at a funny point, because while I absolutely believe that there is not enough evidence made available at this point for any good juror to convict him of this crime, and I certainly wouldn't, I believe instinctively that he did do it, if that makes sense.

 

[ThinMan]

I'm at a funny point, because while I absolutely believe that there is not enough evidence made available at this point for any good juror to convict him of this crime, and I certainly wouldn't, I believe instinctively that he did do it, if that makes sense.

Sure it makes sense. Maybe that's because my instinct agrees with yours. I'm just trying to bring my mind into line with my gut. Based on what we know for sure so far, I agree with you also that we don't have enough to convict. That's why I was inquiring earlier into possible independent evidence of motive.

Stay tuned. I'm expecting more to come out from the DA's office when an indictment comes down. Just my opinion, though.

 

[pearl]

I wonder what the status is on LG's family's interest in searching the Twiggs County landfill?

Also, I never got an answer from anyone about what would be involved in getting a warrant
to search some of SM's family's lands. Still wonder about that, especially since it appears SM
missed that Monday BarBri class. Maybe if SM's family is so sure of his innocence, they would
simply give their permission to have properties checked out?

Supersleuth,
I don't know for sure the answer to your question about searching land that might belong to someone in SM's family. I think at this point, since SM has been arrested for the crime, LE might have to have a specific piece of information showing probable cause to search any property in his family. If Lauren's torso had not been found and they continued to investigate a missing person's report by conducting a large scale search like they did for Kyron Horman, they might not have had to have a search warrant. Hope this might help in answering your question.

 

[ThinMan]

Supersleuth,
I don't know for sure the answer to your question about searching land that might belong to someone in SM's family. I think at this point, since SM has been arrested for the crime, LE might have to have a specific piece of information showing probable cause to search any property in his family. <snipped>.

I agree with you, Pearl. LE has shown probable cause to think SMD committed felony murder (to get the arrest warrant). To get a warrant to search McDaniel family property in Lilburn or elsewhere, they would have to provide additional facts to show that there is probable cause to believe that evidence of the homicide has been hidden there. At a very minimum, I would say they would have to show that SMD had the opportunity (in terms of time and transportation) to get to the property between the time of the crime and the time he was arrested for burglary.

 

[angelanalyzes]

Sure it makes sense. Maybe that's because my instinct agrees with yours. I'm just trying to bring my mind into line with my gut. Based on what we know for sure so far, I agree with you also that we don't have enough to convict. That's why I was inquiring earlier into possible independent evidence of motive.

Stay tuned. I'm expecting more to come out from the DA's office when an indictment comes down. Just my opinion, though.

In terms of evidence to convict, I am encouraged to believe evidence of motive won't be overly hard to come by due to the fact that SMD was apparently not thorough enough to get rid of the hacksaw packaging and the key to Lauren's apartment. That suggests to me that he may also have been just careless enough to leave behind clues, perhaps in the form of photos, items belonging to Lauren, evidence on his computer, etc. that will help to clarify the motive. One can hope.

 

[ThinMan]

In terms of evidence to convict, I am encouraged to believe evidence of motive won't be overly hard to come by due to the fact that SMD was apparently not thorough enough to get rid of the hacksaw packaging and the key to Lauren's apartment. That suggests to me that he may also have been just careless enough to leave behind clues, perhaps in the form of photos, items belonging to Lauren, evidence on his computer, etc. that will help to clarify the motive. One can hope.

Again, I share your instinct. My reason is not the hacksaw packaging and key, but the initial condom episode. While we don't know exactly how it went down, I'm thinking SMD was keeping them in some sort of display or condition that drew LE's attention to them in the first consensual search of his apartment. That lack of judgment might well be mirrored in his failure to eliminate the sort of evidence of a fixation on LG, either in his apartment or on his computer, that you expect.

When we see that evidence, then I'll be convinced that the fixation/infatuation motive exists and will be able to logically defend an opinion that SMD is guilty (assuming that statements of fact reported in news stories can be proved with admissible evidence).

 

[Backwoods]

In terms of evidence to convict, I am encouraged to believe evidence of motive won't be overly hard to come by due to the fact that SMD was apparently not thorough enough to get rid of the hacksaw packaging and the key to Lauren's apartment. That suggests to me that he may also have been just careless enough to leave behind clues, perhaps in the form of photos, items belonging to Lauren, evidence on his computer, etc. that will help to clarify the motive. One can hope.

Related to this --well, sort of!-- I have been wondering if Lauren had pieces of jewelry she wore consistently and, if so, what the killer would have done with any items of that type that she was wearing at the time of her death.

If the death, and especially the dismemberment, took place in her apartment, I realize he could have and certainly might have chosen to remove jewelry and leave it there. But, in the kind of crime you're theorizing, would those items be likely to have "trophy" value? If so, where would the killer be likely to stash them...?

Also, angelanalyzes, do you feel pretty confident that the dismemberment took place in LG's tub? I have been thinking about that one.

 

[Backwoods]

I know we have the Macon Telegraph story that says a source close to the investigation says that SM missed the Monday (June 27) of the bar prep classes.

Anybody have any idea how LE might have determined that? (A poster in the comments section on that site said attendance is not taken, but I do not know that for certain, but what I'm meaning is if attendance is not taken.)
The memory of the instructor, maybe?

 

[ThinMan]

I know we have the Macon Telegraph story that says a source close to the investigation says that SM missed the Monday of the bar prep classes.

Anybody have any idea how LE might have determined that? (A poster in the comments section on that site said attendance is not taken, but I do not know that for certain, but what I'm meaning is if attendance is not taken.)
The memory of the instructor, maybe?

The instructor is unlikely to be able to establish SMD's presence or absence if attendance is not taken (and I believe this is likely the case, since the bar review course is paid for by the students and awards no credit, diploma or certificate and the students are motivated to attend by their desire to pass the bar). The instructors are not the students' regular law school professors who know them, but strangers who are unlikely to even know their names or identities. It is much more likely that their law school classmates, who know them by name on sight, would remember whether SMD was present or absent on a given day. I suspect this is the source for the report that SMD missed Monday's class. No doubt more witnesses lead to greater certainty that SMD was not there, especially if someone has a reason to recall such as "I was going to ask him to borrow his outline, but he wasn't there."

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Here is a great, FBI approved book that was assigned reading for one of my courses last semester, unfortunately the online preview is missing sections but a lot of good info is still available:
Sexual Homicide: Patterns and Motives
http://books.google.com/books?id=j2...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks for posting this. I would like to recommend this book too; I read it about a year ago and it was fascinating and, I thought, very accessible. Full disclosure, I couldn't put it down!

Please do keep posting citations as much as possible. It is very helpful and interesting to me, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Personally I really appreciate it even if you could just throw in something like, "Check out this review paper by _____" or "This is based on something I read in chapter 13 from [textbook]." I like to try to interlibrary loan some books and chapters (this is how I read the textbook you used). I know that this involves extra work and I'm sure you're busy -aren't we all! - so I won't nag. :innocent:

 

[Wondergirl]

Has it ever been mentioned whether Lauren was dating or friends with the victim(s) of the condom thefts?

 

[Backwoods]

Has it ever been mentioned whether Lauren was dating or friends with the victim(s) of the condom thefts?

I don't remember it ever being discussed here (not positive, though) but I have wondered about that, too.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

Has it ever been mentioned whether Lauren was dating or friends with the victim(s) of the condom thefts?

As far as dating, she was apparently dating the same person throughout this time.
Of course, we don't know how stable this was, etc...

With a political science degree from Agnes Scott, she worked for a year at the National Center for Public Policy Research, a conservative think tank, before interning in the Atlanta office of the giant law firm King & Spalding. In August 2008, she entered Mercer University’s Walter F. George School of Law.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...-heartache/2011/08/05/gIQAj47IzI_story_2.html

Lauren fit perfectly in the city and the school. She enjoyed Macon’s charm, and she immersed herself in the social and intellectual life of Mercer. As for romance, she was in a relationship with David S. Vandiver III, an Atlanta lawyer 20 years her senior whom she had met during her King & Spalding internship.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...-heartache/2011/08/05/gIQAj47IzI_story_3.html

 

[ThinMan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Has it ever been mentioned whether Lauren was dating or friends with the victim(s) of the condom thefts?

As far as dating, she was apparently dating the same person throughout this time.
Of course, we don't know how stable this was, etc...

But - - the condom thefts were in the winter of 2008-2009 and LG didn't start dating the K&S lawyer until later, right?. Even if we knew the names of the occupants of apts 5 and 9 (at the time of the condom thefts from those apts), we'd have to learn whether they dated LG in her first year of law school.

It might be easier for someone (a classmate?) to determine who (if anyone) LG dated during her first year and then determine whether any of them also lived in Barristers' Hall during their first year and, if so, in which apts.

 

[PsychoMom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Has it ever been mentioned whether Lauren was dating or friends with the victim(s) of the condom thefts?



But - - the condom thefts were in the winter of 2008-2009 and LG didn't start dating the K&S lawyer until later, right?. Even if we knew the names of the occupants of apts 5 and 9 (at the time of the condom thefts from those apts), we'd have to learn whether they dated LG in her first year of law school.

It might be easier for someone (a classmate?) to determine who (if anyone) LG dated during her first year and then determine whether any of them also lived in Barristers' Hall during their first year and, if so, in which apts.

No, she was interning in Atlanta before attending Mercer Law. She worked there and met him before starting law school in August of 2008. I am basing that on the articles just shared.

 

[southern_comfort]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Has it ever been mentioned whether Lauren was dating or friends with the victim(s) of the condom thefts?



But - - the condom thefts were in the winter of 2008-2009 and LG didn't start dating the K&S lawyer until later, right?. Even if we knew the names of the occupants of apts 5 and 9 (at the time of the condom thefts from those apts), we'd have to learn whether they dated LG in her first year of law school.

It might be easier for someone (a classmate?) to determine who (if anyone) LG dated during her first year and then determine whether any of them also lived in Barristers' Hall during their first year and, if so, in which apts.

I assumed at first that she had been a 1L or 2L summer intern at King & Spalding, but I am not so sure.

The quotes from the article above seem to indicate that LG was an intern at K&S prior to entering law school in August 2008, so I am not sure we can conclude the romance with DVD started after the condom thefts (from those quotes, anyway). Is there something else that tells us how long she dated DVD?

ETA: Oops, thanks PsychoMom.. beat me to it.

 

[PsychoMom]

I know we have the Macon Telegraph story that says a source close to the investigation says that SM missed the Monday (June 27) of the bar prep classes.

Anybody have any idea how LE might have determined that? (A poster in the comments section on that site said attendance is not taken, but I do not know that for certain, but what I'm meaning is if attendance is not taken.)
The memory of the instructor, maybe?

The older gentleman who lived at the complex stated McD missed class on the 30th, and that was strange because he had not missed any other classes. That man was a neighbor who appeared to be attending the same classes, based on his comments. He mentioned the time of morning and not seeing any movement from McD's apartment on the 30th. If he was a neighbor and attended the same classes, he would probably be aware of whether McD were there or not.

Now, off to find the link!
http://www.macon.com/2011/08/09/1659214/mcdaniel-missed-key-prep-session.html

&#8220;There were some friends that were supposed to have been out searching the night before. ... So maybe he was sleeping in. But that would be very unusual for him because he never missed class. I don&#8217;t know that he ever missed class,&#8221; Whitmire said.

I wonder about the second time he stated the missing class thing, if he meant all his classes during school, or just the prep thing. I read as he never missed any prep classes, and he didn't think he missed any other classes while in school. But, it is a gray area...AGAIN!

 

[southern_comfort]

The older gentleman who lived at the complex stated McD missed class on the 30th, and that was strange because he had not missed any other classes. That man was a neighbor who appeared to be attending the same classes, based on his comments. He mentioned the time of morning and not seeing any movement from McD's apartment on the 30th. If he was a neighbor and attended the same classes, he would probably be aware of whether McD were there or not.

Now, off to find the link!
http://www.macon.com/2011/08/09/1659214/mcdaniel-missed-key-prep-session.html

I wonder about the second time he stated the missing class thing, if he meant all his classes during school, or just the prep thing. I read as he never missed any prep classes, and he didn't think he missed any other classes while in school. But, it is a gray area...AGAIN!

I doubt very much that he would be able to speak to SM's attendance throughout law school. They likely wouldn't have had 100% class overlap, so how would he know? I feel confident he is speaking about the bar exam prep.

That being said, I feel that DW's credibility is pretty low now. In that interview, he said that SM never missed class prior to June 30. Then we have a subsequent report from an unidentified source that SM did miss class on the 27th. Unless the report about the 27th is false, DW has lost credibility, IMO. I'll be viewing anything he says about SMs habits with a skeptical lens going forward.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Tell me about it :/
I even plan to join the police force within a year, and also continue on with graduate school, just to stack the deck because the FBI really likes you to have experience in LE! It may prove impractical to attempt grad school while also working as a police officer, lol, I may just choose grad school, but I'd like to try because it is so competitive, so many people want to work for the FBI.

Yes, AA there is so much that goes into pursuing a career in this area of expertise...ESPECIALLY IF WANTING TO GO ALL THE WAY and eventually work for the federal government specializing in forensics, profiling, etc.. I can attest it is a long tedious road with many and much required to have been done for specific amounts of time along the way.. My ex husband was born to be in the field that he truly knows inside and out with all the teeny nooks amd crannies along the way..

I was about to suggest the very thing you just posted was your intentions to be on the police force within the next couple years.. This IMO and the proof is in the pudding that in going that extra mile throughout working toward your ultimate goal I've seen that just as much experience you can attain along the way the absolute better off you are.. My ex husband after getting his BA in criminal justice and then immediately setting off toward his masters to immediately follow and was still in his early twenties after receiving his masters and which working full time as Measley probation officer for Juvenile courts he then immediately applied to and was accepted to go through the police academy and was well on his way from that point on.. His focus and determination were evident, his work ethic and devotion were paramount and those that mattered took notice.. IMO this is what type things greatly helped him in the long run.. As after gaining the trust and admiration of his superior officers and even their superiors it did seem that this good impression he had made on some important people really made a big difference in smoothly trekking right up that ladder to eventually working in the FBI..

AA I am very certain you are aware of just how tedious a process just being thoroughly investigated by the FBI for the purpose of the absolute incredible lengths that they go to in the hiring process.. It is amazing.. Going as far as to have literally sent out men dressed in black suits to a tiny town that a fraternity brother of my husband's lived in.. They went and even interviewed him tho they'd not even been in touch since their junior year at UT.. It really is a career that one definitely earns their place in finally being hired on.. Then the long road of working one's way up through the Federal government career ladder.. But that alone having made it into being one of the chosen few is an accomplishment in and of itself that the vast majority of us will never know or have a clue about..

One of my ex husbands best buds was among the very elite chosen few that had made his way into the final 2 candidates for the new hire with the actual secret service.. After an even more extensive hiring process(if u can imagine) for this one slot that was open for secret service agent.. We all thought he was a shoe in.. Down to the wire with only 2 of them left vying for the coveted position and no one could even guess what was left for them to have to be tested on, verified thru, or extensively studied complete family tree of backgrounds..EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN HAD BEEN ASKED OF HIM, REQUIRED OF HIM, etc and he'd *passed everything with flying colors!! Without a doubt we knew he had the job.. But couldn't have been more wrong within about 48 hours of us anticipating what was going to happen, when would they tell the result of who'd been chosen??.. And just like that it was over. He was paid a visit to his home by some very high up individuals who literally raved to him about how very impressed they were with EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM.. they just said in the end the choice was made to go with the other one of the only two of them.. He was crushed and without being given any reason.. What could it have been that went wrong? Or that they saw that they did not like or approve of? *The poor guy was left racking his brain and just no relief.. Just left not knowing..*

You'll not believe what shortly thereafter we learned was the cause for why he was not chosen at that very last step on that very last moment.. It truly was unbelievable what it all boiled down to(but I did tell him that my God if that's the only thing bad that the entire consensus of the US Federal government with all their unlimited resources .. If this was all they could come up with on him then by God he is one mighty fine man)..

In those last 48 hours these field agents that's jobs are to dig up even the smallest hint of a single grain of dirt that can possibly found on one of these candidates for the secret service agent position.. Well these agents will indeed find it.. He'd never been arrested for anything must less charged with any offense so they kept on digging and in those last 48 hours they made a trip to that same small town where my husbands frat brother had been tracked down And interviewed for my husbands process Of being hired on with the FBI.. In that same tiny town they not only found the fraternity brother who the agent that was up for the secret service job was also a former fraternity brother of from UT, but in interviewing this man who had attended college many moons ago with the agent up for hire he during the course of blabbing his mouth comes upon telling them a story of a guys night out in one of the college town local bars that a few too many beers And a bunch of cocky fraternity bros had began what was an All out bar brawl, yes to the horror of this agent about to become secret service this moron from his fraternity many moons ago was now in one single setting by shooting his mouth off stripping this man's chances of being that agent for secret service.. They not only took the frat bro. Story down word for word they also got two other fellows names that could fully corroborate the bar brawl and this agents involvement.. Within 24 hours all that hard work and interviewing nightmare process of attempting to get that secret service job was all for nothing.. Those FBI field agents had 3 full accounts of 3 separate men telling of this agents involvement in a bar fight and much to our surprise they went even one better and were able to contact the sheriffs office of that college town where the bar fight happened and they were actually able to have in their hands a copy of a police report for the incident from the bar fight night.. No one was even arrested for the fight but there was infact not only a report made of the incident but it also listed 6 or 7 guys full names on the report of having somehow had involvement in the bar fight.. As I said no one arrested or charged with anything but the agents name was infact one of those names on that damn incident report!!!!

That beats all, doesn't it??? Sounds too unbelievable to be true but by golly it most definitely is the truth of how this guy came so close, I mean my God down to the final 2 men up for the secret service agent position.. And just like that, in a blink of an eye and a dummy running his mouth.. That poor guy watched it all disappear and never, after coming so damn close, for nothing to have come of it.. It was a big let down as one can imagine.. Lol

AA.. Alls this to say, you've got your work cut out for ya but just from the little I know of you I haven't a doubt that you put your mind to it and you can go all the way!! You seem as tho you were very much born for this exact type career.. Good luck