GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

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http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1616178/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

look at mcds teeth in this pic. His lower left incisisor or canine. Tooth is either broken or sharpened to a point. It would leave a very distinct bite mark.
Also it could be that he used meth, who knows just an observation .


I had that same exact thought when I looked at the picture earlier, sharpened incisors. Then I thought I was imagining things. When I read your post, I looked again. The 3 incisors that I can see seem to stand out from the other teeth.
 
http://www.macon.com/2011/06/30/1615815_a1616178/body-found-at-downtown-macon-apartments.html

look at mcds teeth in this pic. His lower left incisisor or canine. Tooth is either broken or sharpened to a point. It would leave a very distinct bite mark.
Also it could be that he used meth, who knows just an observation .

While anything is possible, what I know about meth is that it is so highly addictive and debilitating, I'm not sure he would have been able to complete law school and make it to class everyday as people have stated before.

But that is definitely creepy about his teeth...haven't crimes been solved before based on matching up of a bite pattern?
 
The meth comment was just because of what appears to be the condition of his teeth. It could just be bad hygiene, he does appear unkempt. After I blew the photo up there is a sore in the left corner of his lips. I call the smoker sores, just a name I made up but smokers get the same spots in the corners of the lips. Also in the telegraph photo galley there is a good pic of his hands. His nails are very maintained. Strange.
 
While anything is possible, what I know about meth is that it is so highly addictive and debilitating, I'm not sure he would have been able to complete law school and make it to class everyday as people have stated before.

But that is definitely creepy about his teeth...haven't crimes been solved before based on matching up of a bite pattern?

I'm with you, GT&T, on law school performance being incompatible with meth addiction and SMD was not reported to be a marginal student with attendance problems (as I would expect a meth head to be).

Bite marks as evidence is another story. Yes, I've read some accounts of expert opinions being used to compare bite marks on a victim with a defendant's teeth (and impressions made from them).

There isn't really a well-developed science of bite mark identification. It's basically the same idea as finger print matches, but the practice of comparing bite marks lacks the database that has been developed for fingerprints, the training routines for the persons doing the comparisons, and the credibility that the FBI (and others) have been carefully constructing through decades of effort.
 

Bessie,
I certainly enjoyed this article. Thanks for posting the link.
Responding to excerpts:


Excerpts from Generalized Characteristics of Serial Murderers


The hedonistic type kills for the thrill of it. Killers simply enjoy the act of killing. Sexual arousal is common with this type of murder. Finally the power-oriented type kills because he enjoys exerting ultimate control over his victims. These murderers are not psychotic, but they are obsessed with capturing and controlling their victims and forcing them to obey their every command.
IMO: McD is a combination of these two types. Hedonistic type substantiated by the fact that he had a murder plan as stated in the warrant and the premise was a lust murder. Power-oriented exhibited by planning, entering Lauren’s apt, and taking complete and final control of Lauren.

Every single one of the murderers were subjected to serious emotional abuse during their childhoods. All of them developed into what psychiatrists label as sexually dysfunctional adults, unable to sustain a mature, consensual relationship with another adult.
IMO: Emotional abuse is exhibited in many forms. Due to WS rules, I cannot state in detail the form of emotional abuse that I believe McD experienced growing up. However, I believe we can get a glimpse into his childhood by the type of published religious discussion Glenda had with her adopted grandchildren ages 6 to 10, as stated in the article link below on page 2. If the parents’ message is too dominate, negative, and strict the child often finds a means to please the parent by presenting an angelic facade to the parents, while at the same time, develops a covert pattern of behavior to void following rules in order to do what he pleases.
A Closer Look at Stephen McDaniel http://www.macon.com/2011/08/07/1657322_p2/man-on-the-street-how-fledgling.html

[First of all, there is no such thing as the person who at age 35 suddenly changes from being perfectly normal and erupts into totally disruptive, murderous behavior. The behaviors that are precursors to murder have been present and developing in that person's life for a very long time, since childhood.

IMO: McD exhibited some unusual social behaviors as discussed upstream. I won’t repeat them. I consider some of those behaviors red flags and as a parent I would have addressed those behaviors with my child. McD’s behaviors did not happen overnight. It took years for his behavior to culminate on the night of June 25th.

These children grew up in an environment in which their own actions were ignored, where there were no limits set on their behavior. The task of the first half-dozen years of life is socialization. Those who grow up to murder never truly comprehended the world in other than egocentric terms.
IMO: Again, I suppose it is against WS rules for me to state what I really think here.
Suffice it to say: Parents must hold their children accountable for their behavior. When a parent ignores unacceptable behavior and makes excuses for their child, the child grows up believing they can get away with anything, and believes he can beat the system in his egocentric world.

By the time a normal youngster is participating in an active social life, the loner is turning in on himself and developing fantasies that are deviant. The fantasies are substitutes for more positive human encounters, and as the adolescent becomes more dependent on them, he loses touch with acceptable social values. All the murderers knew that they had not had normal relationships, and they resented not having them; it was this resentment that fueled their aggressive, murderous behavior.

IMO: McD’s loner behavior has been witnessed and confirmed by those who knew him. The absence of interaction with others and McD’s lack of ability to develop relationships is a major contributor to his horrific attack on Lauren.

The deviant person, having had very few true restraints on his behavior since childhood, believes he can act out his fantasy and that nobody will be able to stop him. The offender's commitment to the fantasies deepens as he becomes a loner in adolescence, subject to the onset of puberty and sexual arousal. Aggressive, and with a feeling of having been cheated by society, he may channel his hostility into fantasies, which are characterized by strong visual components, and by themes of dominance, revenge, molestation, manipulation, and control. The other person is depersonalized, made into an "object". Deviants feel the sexual urge without having learned that it hast anything to do with affection.
IMO: The fact that McD had a plan for committing murder and getting away with it is a huge fantasy that deepened. Lauren became the object of his sexual urge absent any affection.

Only later, after many violent acts, will he come to believe that he is invincible and will never be caught. Things have been building up to a point where the potential murderer is ready to commit his violent act, and then a possible victim (usually especially vulnerable) appears and the potential murderer becomes an actual one.

IMO: We do not know of any other violent acts by McD. All we know is he had the master key and Lauren’s key. He did steal from the apartments. However, this is the first time he had gotten caught burglarizing. McD does not have a record. Lauren stated in the conversation with her sister, Kaitlyn, that “if McD was dangerous that she would be the only one who was safe”, inferring that she had been nice to him and that he liked her. Considering Lauren’s physical location, i.e., next door, and the fact that she believed she was safe made her the ‘unusually especially vulnerable’ person.

Then, the threshold has been crossed; the point of no return is passed. He is probably frightened and thrilled, has experienced a state of heightened arousal and liked it. After a few days, still on the loose, he might feel bad and try to control his impulses. More usually, the man starts to feel more egocentric than ever and becomes convinced that he can do it again without getting arrested.
IMO: After the murder, McD was calm and confident enough to show up for 2 of the 4 classes. He missed Monday because he was very busy with the murder cleanup. He missed Thursday because he knew LE would be showing up, and he wanted to be around for that. Otherwise, no one noticed anything out of the ordinary with McD. He was confident during the interview explaining how he had heard nothing and that Lauren was just gone, snatched while running. Imagine how egocentric you would have to be to remain calm and collected in this situation. I cannot. But his ego was huge at this point. He was so confident that he wasn’t even worried about LE finding the torso even though the BH grounds were crawling with LE. He was so confident that he placed himself on camera helping direct the investigation. At this point, he was convinced that his mission was accomplished… until Michelle Quesada informed him a body had been discovered which of course changed the course of events.

He incorporates details of the first murder into his fantasies and begins to construct future crimes. Now, in subsequent crimes, the life stresses that preceded the first murder may not need to be present. The next victim will probably be more carefully sought out, the murder more expertly done, the place further away and displaying more violence to the victim than was evident in the first crime. Then, the murderer will become a serial killer.

IMO: If the body had not been found, McD would have fulfilled this last excerpt of the article.
Lauren would have been the beginning of his killing career.

Generalized Characteristics of Serial Murderers
http://www.criminalprofiling.ch/character.html

You have just described the life and times of serial killer Gary Hilton....
If you listen to the video recordings of his mother you understand why I say this.
 
The meth comment was just because of what appears to be the condition of his teeth. It could just be bad hygiene, he does appear unkempt. After I blew the photo up there is a sore in the left corner of his lips. I call the smoker sores, just a name I made up but smokers get the same spots in the corners of the lips. Also in the telegraph photo galley there is a good pic of his hands. His nails are very maintained. Strange.


The sores on the mouth corners look like angular cheilitis to me. I get this periodically. Stress tends to make it active for me. Then I could also be wrong. Just a thought. Here is a link

http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/angular-cheilitis


Angular Cheilitis
Angular cheilitis (also called perlèche, cheilosis, or stomatitis) is a condition with deep cracks and splits at the corners of the mouth. If severe, the splits or cracks may bleed when the mouth is opened and a shallow ulcer or a crust may form.
 
Is a good, social relationship with family of origin considered as a factor when determining whether a person is a "loner" in a dysfunctional/disordered way?
 
Bite marks as evidence is another story. Yes, I've read some accounts of expert opinions being used to compare bite marks on a victim with a defendant's teeth (and impressions made from them).

There isn't really a well-developed science of bite mark identification. It's basically the same idea as finger print matches, but the practice of comparing bite marks lacks the database that has been developed for fingerprints, the training routines for the persons doing the comparisons, and the credibility that the FBI (and others) have been carefully constructing through decades of effort.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Cases_Where_DNA_Revealed_that_Bite_Mark_Analysis_Led_to_Wrongful_Arrests_and_Convictions.php

The above article by The Innocence Project lists several now-exonerated convicts who had been wrongfully convicted by bite mark "experts". The article is well worth a quick read (only a page). It says, among other things,
Bite mark analysis is particularly troubling because of the almost complete absence of validated rules, regulations, or processes for accreditation that establish standards for experts or the testimony they provide. Unlike other areas of forensic analysis, forensic dentists are generally self-employed rather than employees of an accredited lab and hence they can avoid even that layer of oversight. Moreover, no government entity has ever reviewed the validity of bite mark evidence. “ite mark analysis has never passed through the rigorous scientific examination that is common to most normal sciences,” according to the 2002 book Modern Scientific Evidence: The Law and Science of Expert Testimony."

Also, it's worth reading the page at http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Robert_Lee_Stinson.php
 
Page 20 answers your question AFL ... http://www.scribd.com/doc/40094487/Psychology-of-Lust-Murder

Which brings me to this question. Will LE find any *advertiser censored* on McD's computer or an indication he visited certain sites? It's been said that McD did not abuse drugs or alcohol, would *advertiser censored* alone be enough to sustain his fantasies?

"Inquiries addressing the connection between facilitators and paraphilic activity suggest that alcohol, drugs, and *advertiser censored* are positively correlated with sexual and serial homicide".



Quick help request - Bessie, pls move if it belongs in a different forum!:innocent:

I'm trying to view this on my iPad. I didn't seem to be able to open it w/o downloading Float Reader, the ScribD app, so I did that. Unfortunately, the app window appears to be formatted for iPhone, so at 1x it is very tiny and when expanded to fullscreen, very pixelated. Either way, it's hard to read. I emailed it to myself using that function in the app, but opening it from my gmail just takes me back into Floatreader. Can someone suggest an alternative? Should I just wait till I'm on my laptop tomorrow?
 
Just read it, trying to catch up. I wish I had someting to add with regard to the burglaries. I too am very curious about the condoms and what caused LE to take an interest in them. I'd like to know what brought about the conversation wherein he told LE about being a virgin. I think the way that all came about could be very telling. As far as charging him with additional burglaries, they certainly still could but the murder charge is so much more important. There's always the possibility we'll here more from more victims about things that were taken out of their apartments or about how someone may have suspected McD of snooping/burglarizing apartments. As with the rest of the evidence in this case, LE just isn't saying much.

If SM was a fetish burglar, and kept records or diaries of his burglaries, there could definitely be more charges.

In the case of Russell Williams, LE charged him with 82 fetish crimes AFTER they arrested him for the 2 sexual assaults and 2 murders. This was because, RW kept detailed spreadsheets of LE knows how many details regarding the fetish break-ins, assaults, stalking etc.

The majority of the victims in the burglary cases did not even know they were a victim, or had been broken into. RW kept many of the souvenirs he stole from their homes (he also burned many of them and did who knows what else).

The charges were quickly laid by LE because his records were OCD meticulous.

The Crown used 82 fetish burglary crimes to lay the backdrop for his escalation period at trial.

So, yes, SM could definitely be charged with other burglary crimes, IMO, and while they are lesser charges than murder, they can clearly be used to show an escalation of behavior or other things, against the accused.
 
Re: Specific RUMORS concerning there having been bite marks left on the breast area of the torso, along with mutilation and even removal of breasts and genitalia..

I know for several of us this rumor has been very consistent throughout the case from very, very early on.. And I know several of us have theorized or speculated as to what went into this as far as possible motives..and that theory or speculation varying dependent on the degree of the depravity one feels was acted out and inflicted upon in this particular crime..

Some thoughts on the bite mark discussion.. Just as some were pointing out Stephen very well may have a quite unique{actually every bite mark is unique}..but as some have indicated his may have some easily discerned tell-tale signs or markers upon very specific teeth.. This imo may be infact extremely relevant as to why as is RUMORED the actual breast mass in and of itself was attempted to have been removed.. i.e. that in the aftermath of the commission of the crime or atleast a portion of the crime...if say as in a sexual assault portion of the crime.. If the perp realizes in the aftermath that during the commission of that assault on the victim that they possibly did not even consciously realize that they had infact left actual, visible bite marks.. This IMO would be a reason for them to then decide to attempt to remove that portion or specific piece of very damning evidence obviously traceable directly back to the perp himself..

Some may ask then how is it even known that there were indeed bitemarks on areas of the breast if that particular mass or tissue had actually been removed, therefor removing ALL evidence of the bitemarks... MY opinion is the key word here is ALL evidence of the bitemarks..meaning that if the greater majority of the bitemark were removed, possibly the perp even believing that they had removed ALL of the bitemark, but yet in haste or some other reason if even the tiniest of slight evidence showing a minute partial piece of a bitemark were left the ME of course would be able to have discovered it throughout their extensive and tedious inspection of the torso during the autopsy..

Question then would be is it even enough of a bitemark that would even be able to be used in comparison to match the perps possible alignment of his teeth.. Quite possibly the answer to that is no.. As in yes, there was enough of the bitemark left for an ME to easily discern it to infact be a very teeny portion of what is left of a bitemark that the majority having been removed by completely removing that area of the breast.. But as in No, that portion left which was easily discerned to have been a bite mark is not of sufficient measure in order to do a successful comparison and/or match with the perps bite impression..

As for the long standing RUMOR of the genitalia having been mutilated and/or even attempted to have been completely removed.. This being such a highly sensitive subject{and understandably so} and still no matter how many of us have been given much detail on the alleged abuse inflicted in this area I still will continue to reserve the vast majority of what is my opinion and or view about this particular disturbing piece of the crime.. The only thing that I will say at this point, which does not go into any of the more graphic of detail of this alleged abuse but rather only speculates on what has been discussed as the motive if infact we learn as we have with all other that this too is infact accurate as to what happened.. Just touching on that motive could go in two very opposite veins of theory..with one being again an in the aftermath realization of having lost control[for lack of a better term]in the possible attacks that some of us believe were to have taken place possibly both pre and post mortem[tho IMPO If strongly felt about either pre or post my opinion would be that it weighs very heavy on the side of post rather than pre..but nothing more than an opinion there].. One of several possible motives for an attempted removal of genitalia would be again just as with the bitemarks..it is done to conceal possible traceable links on or in the torso itself directly back to the perp.. And I'll leave it at that for now..

As I have said on numerous occassions throughout the thus far unfolding of this case..its victim and its alleged perp.. I am very certain that when certain details of this crime and what exactly it was that was done and inflicted on this victim it will without a doubt shake every human being to their very core..with a very physical bone chilling reaction that cannot easily be shook off.. The motives may still remain unclear and unanswered but soon what will not be left unclear or unanswered is the actual physical depravity that was intentionally unleashed and inflicted upon this innocent victim.. that will be crystal clear and to all who are capable of understanding the extent of what it was that was done will be left knowing it without question infact did occur and was done by the correctly alleged individual in this case.. the one who with very good and clear reason has always been the only POI in the heinous murder of his neighbor and classmate..
 
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Cases_Where_DNA_Revealed_that_Bite_Mark_Analysis_Led_to_Wrongful_Arrests_and_Convictions.php

The above article by The Innocence Project lists several now-exonerated convicts who had been wrongfully convicted by bite mark "experts". The article is well worth a quick read (only a page). It says, among other things,
Bite mark analysis is particularly troubling because of the almost complete absence of validated rules, regulations, or processes for accreditation that establish standards for experts or the testimony they provide. Unlike other areas of forensic analysis, forensic dentists are generally self-employed rather than employees of an accredited lab and hence they can avoid even that layer of oversight. Moreover, no government entity has ever reviewed the validity of bite mark evidence. “ite mark analysis has never passed through the rigorous scientific examination that is common to most normal sciences,” according to the 2002 book Modern Scientific Evidence: The Law and Science of Expert Testimony."

Also, it's worth reading the page at http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Robert_Lee_Stinson.php


Wow, those are some appalling error rates! I think that this science has a long way to go before it has a role in our legal system.
 
I agree, I think they were interested in him even from the time that he and Lauren's other friends were bused to the police station and interviewed. I pulled up this article where the cameraman from that weird on-air interview states
"....after McDaniel was gone, a police spokeswoman came over and wanted to know what the man on the street had said."

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/07/1657322/man-on-the-street-how-fledgling.html

Police at the scene were definitely keeping tabs on him. And look at that photo that you pasted the link to...it looks like he's almost being led up the stairs like a child. I wonder if he tried to stall or give them reasons why they didn't need to go up to his apartment...
I feel strongly that McD prolonged the interview because he was in a panic. He was holding on for dear life, as I said last week. As long as could keep talking, and the camera kept rolling, time was suspended. But at the end, annihilation when his bad deed was exposed.

A person with social phobia has an irrational fear of disapproval. They're uncomfortable around authority figures. Being questioned by the police must have been torturous for him. He would've been unable to hold his cool, and I agree he gave himself away. He was aware that he did, also, and knew the police would come for him. When the interview ended and the police did approach him, he fell apart. I think he became a blithering idiot, and talked himself right into a burglary confession.

Some people scoffed at my example of how that confession might have come about when I posted it way back when, but I don't think I was all that far off. Faced with the disapproval of the police officers, and the anticipated reaction of his parents, he reverted to a childlike state. Think about the type of child who throws a tantrum when he's been caught doing something wrong. He can't stand for his parents or a teacher to think he's bad, and he will offer all kinds of ridiculous excuses and argue them until he works himself into a frenzy. That's what I think happened when the police questioned McD. We've seen evidence to support it, too. First, there's the ridiculous revelation about stealing condoms three years ago. How could the police have known that if he didn't tell them? Then his own mother said the police asked her if he had mental problems or abused drugs. I'm pretty sure that question came about because of his behavior during questioning. We also have the video of Chief Burns' priceless expression that I find very telling. And now Knox has reminded us of the photograph showing him being led up the stairs by two detectives with his shoulders slumped forward and his head hanging low. The investigators might've worn him down and gotten a confession from him if it weren't for his parents. But like many have said, he'll never confess as long as his mother is alive. He'd literally prefer to die than face her disapproval.
*****:cow:*****:cow:*****:cow:*****:cow:*****
 
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Con...s_Led_to_Wrongful_Arrests_and_Convictions.php

The above article by The Innocence Project lists several now-exonerated convicts who had been wrongfully convicted by bite mark "experts". The article is well worth a quick read (only a page). It says, among other things,
Bite mark analysis is particularly troubling because of the almost complete absence of validated rules, regulations, or processes for accreditation that establish standards for experts or the testimony they provide. Unlike other areas of forensic analysis, forensic dentists are generally self-employed rather than employees of an accredited lab and hence they can avoid even that layer of oversight. Moreover, no government entity has ever reviewed the validity of bite mark evidence. “ite mark analysis has never passed through the rigorous scientific examination that is common to most normal sciences,” according to the 2002 book Modern Scientific Evidence: The Law and Science of Expert Testimony."

Also, it's worth reading the page at http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Robert_Lee_Stinson.php

:clap::clap: Of Louisiana and Mississippi exonerees, 28% were wrongfully convicted due to flawed forensics.
http://www.ip-no.org/welcome-ipno
(This happens to be my one of my "pet" causes.)
 
Quick help request - Bessie, pls move if it belongs in a different forum!:innocent:

I'm trying to view this on my iPad. I didn't seem to be able to open it w/o downloading Float Reader, the ScribD app, so I did that. Unfortunately, the app window appears to be formatted for iPhone, so at 1x it is very tiny and when expanded to fullscreen, very pixelated. Either way, it's hard to read. I emailed it to myself using that function in the app, but opening it from my gmail just takes me back into Floatreader. Can someone suggest an alternative? Should I just wait till I'm on my laptop tomorrow?
Aww gee, I wish I could help you out, PJD. I don't use an iPad, just an iPhone.

ETA: I just read that as of July, Float Reader was only available for the iPhone. The iPad version is in development.
 
Hiya plainjane! Having trouble with the ipad, eh? They certainly seem to have more than enough apps for the ipad, iphone, and ipod and its many generations of both of the latter.. Frustrating it is when you find that a desperately needed app is not available for the particular apple product that one of us may be using.. All wonderfully impressive and very much use derived from all of their products I just have complaints on the app issue as well as apple's refusal to incorporate "Flash" into any of their products[quite irritating when it certainly seems as tho 50+% off all internet sites very much require the use of "Flash" in some degree to be able to appropriately view the material..AArrghh!!]..

And while I don't have any specific tips for the ipad, as I'm a user of the iphone but I do believe a couple of our members here are infact primarily ipad users.. That maybe have found an answer to the issue at hand.. I cannot remember off hand who all our ipad users are but IIRC justiceforlauren is indeed an ipad poster herself..lol.. but she, too may very well be a newbie to the ipad as well..

Any ipad users have any insight?? Thanks in advance :)
 
I agree, I think they were interested in him even from the time that he and Lauren's other friends were bused to the police station and interviewed. I pulled up this article where the cameraman from that weird on-air interview states
"....after McDaniel was gone, a police spokeswoman came over and wanted to know what the man on the street had said."

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/07/1657322/man-on-the-street-how-fledgling.html

Police at the scene were definitely keeping tabs on him. And look at that photo that you pasted the link to...it looks like he's almost being led up the stairs like a child. I wonder if he tried to stall or give them reasons why they didn't need to go up to his apartment...
I always thought he was in handcuffs in that picture. I might need glasses
 
Well, strangely enough, after we were talking about the Body of Evidence: Dayle Hinman Show, it was ON! I DVR'ed a couple. The first one I happened to watch was one where a young lady was murdered in her bed.

Some interesting points.
LE said she thought someone was coming into her house on multiple occassions.
Dayle Hinman said that that would mean that the person was local and probably near because he felt comfortable returning to the scene. Also, he was not a burglar because she was being targeted multiple times.

They asked for the public's help.
Up comes the NEIGHBOR. He offers some tale about chasing off burglars from her house.
Dayle Hinman says: When a person interjects themselves into the investigation it is a red flag. Most of the time they interject to learn what LE has on the case. The more lengthy and detailed the story, the more suspicious you should be.

Her body was displayed and not covered up on her bed.
Dayle said: This crime was sexual in nature. You can see how he had the body on display. Either he was proud of what he did or he wanted to shock LE.
She said that he either entered her house thinking that she would let him rape her and he would leave or that he entered her house thinking she would be happy he was there and let him stay. Obviously she fought back and he killed her.
 
:clap::clap: Of Louisiana and Mississippi exonerees, 28% were wrongfully convicted due to flawed forensics.
http://www.ip-no.org/welcome-ipno
(This happens to be my one of my "pet" causes.)

I have heard that those are not the most accurate....however, my mom said it was really interesting that when she taught in prison, none of her students were guilty. Hmmmm Go figure. :waitasec:
 
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