GA GA - Mary Shotwell Little, 25, Atlanta, 14 Oct 1965

[scarpen56]

Roy Little did remarry, only to have a very bad divorce years later. As far as we know, he is still alive and living in Florida.

I think both he and the office manager know more than they will tell. Maybe hoping they will outlive any of the people they might need to fear.

 

[scarpen56]

Liz,

I appreciate your helping me look at Roy's behavior in a new light. The statement about there being minimal blood in Mary's car may be one of those assumptions we should challenge. The woman on Facebook named Karen Smith seems to know far more about Mary and Dianne's cases than I ever will. She's posted some amazing crime scene photos from the laundry in East Point where Dianne Shield's body was discovered - photos I've never seen published anywhere else. She probably has a contact in the Atlanta Police Dept based on some of the information she's posted on Facebook.

At any rate, one of the things Karen has posted that surprised me most was that according to some reports, Mary's Comet actually had considerable blood in it. I believe Karen described the blood as being pooled on the floor mat between the front bucket seats. As I remember, the Atlanta Journal Constitution reported some anonymous law enforcement officials felt the car looked staged; there was no more blood in the car than you might expect from a nose bleed; and the blood had been smeared over much of the car's surfaces to exaggerate the effect.

Here's my best guess - both things are probably true. There was probably more blood than has been reported. I can see from photos the published photos that the blood appears to have been smeared over the interior of the car. Both of the North Carolina gas station attendants reported the woman who signed the gas receipts had blood on her - blood on her legs, her clothes, and possibly her head. There's no doubt Mary was violently attacked and there would have been no shortage of blood. Ultimately, I don't think it matters exactly how much blood was in the Comet, but I tend to believe there was more than a small amount.

However, when veteran cops who have a well-developed intuition say the car looked staged to them - I believe that too. But I have a different theory about why it looked staged. In the 1960s, criminal profiling was an unknown science. I believe Mary's abductor smeared the blood and staged the scene in her car to make it more horrific when the car was discovered. Staging crime scenes is very common for some killers and is probably better understood today than it was in 1965. One of the strongest indicators that Mary's abduction and Dianne's murder was committed by the same man, I believe, is the staging at both crime scenes. Both crime scenes involved cars. Where Dianne's body was found, she was stuffed into the trunk of her own car, strangled, and had her own scarf stuffed down her throat. Newspaper reports say a cookbook for newlyweds was placed prominently near the body in the trunk - that's staging.

As I've said before, if an expert criminal profiler could create a profile based on the details from the two crime scenes I believe it could include such specific and precise details about the man who did this that someone would recognize him - even after all these years. That's what I hope anyway.

The entire front passenger seat, and the upper part of the window,was smeared with blood. There was blood pooled between the passenger seat and the console, as it had seeped down from the bleeding person. This is consistent with a head wound.
This is also consistent with hte reports from the two gas station attendants in NC, who said the womans head was wrapped in a towel and she was bloody. Nose bleed my foot!(As my mama used to say.)

 

[scarpen56]

The smearing appears as if someones head "lolled" from side to side and bled while it was moving, smearing the blood. Her head was wrapped as soon as possible and it is probably that someone also tried to wipe the seat with a towel after she was moved to another car.
KAREN SMITH

 

[scarpen56]

I'll try to help with your questions about the grocery store if you don't mind my answering from memory. The Colonial Grocery Store was part of the Lenox Square Shopping Center. I believe it was at the south end of the shopping center, probably at what would be considered the opposite end of the shopping center from the Rich's parking lot at the corner of Peachtree and Lenox Road. Colonial Grocery was gone from the shopping center by the time I was old enough to remember - so I'm speculating a little about the location, but I think that's what I've read.

My understanding is that Mary and her friend and co-worker Isla Stark agreed to meet at Lenox after work. They drove separately from the C&S Mitchell Street office downtown. Mary stopped at Colonial Grocery first and shopped. Her bags of groceries can be seen in the floor in back of the Comet in newspaper photos. I would guess she shopped for non-pershisable items, and I would guess that she drove from Colonel Grocery to the parking space in Yellow 32 outside Rich's Department Store. She and Isla shopped for an hour or more and then had dinner at the Cafeteria. The cafeteria is sometimes identified as the S&S Cafeteria and sometimes as the Picadilly Cafeteria. When I worked at Lenox in the mid 1980s, there was a Picadilly Cafeteria near Rich's on the Lenox Road side - even though the shopping center had been renovated extensively by then. I've always assumed it was that same cafeteria or at least in the same location where Mary and Isla ate that night.

The news accounts say that Isla said goodbye to Mary at one of the exits or maybe even in the parking lot, but she didn't walk with Mary to her car. She simply saw Mary walking away in the direction of her car. It would have been dark at 8 pm on Thursday, October 14th, but the parking lot was reportedly busy and well-lighted. Somehow Isla knew where Mary's car was parked, because she was able to describe the location to Eugene Rackley, Mary's manager, who found the car parked in the Yellow 32 area of the parking lot the next day.

You spelled Isla's name correctly! Now, we have always thought Mary shopped for groceries AFTER dinner and other shopping. The bag boy who loaded her groceries saw her head toward the parking lot exit. However, she may have just been moving her car around to another side of the mall to meet Isla. Interesting.

 

[scarpen56]

Liz, may I ask where you got the information about the threat? The police did confirm that the flowers for Diane were from someone she babysat for.KAREN SMITH

 

[scarpen56]

Diane had a scarf and some PAGES from a phone book stuffed down her throat. She was in full rigor when removed from the trunk, almost still in a fetal position, only on her back on the gurney. This was a horrible and brutal murder. I think it was by someone who knew her and lured her for some totally innocent reason. Then, I believe the killer got angry at her for some reason and killed her in a rage. She WAS checking books out for a guy who knew both Mary and Diane. Some books were found in the car, but not all identified. They were in her name. Maybe she went to deliver some books or pick some up? Can't divulge the guys name,but he does monitor these blogs and FB pages.

 

[ncthom]

Roy Little did remarry, only to have a very bad divorce years later. As far as we know, he is still alive and living in Florida.

I think both he and the office manager know more than they will tell. Maybe hoping they will outlive any of the people they might need to fear.

Karen, I like the way you phrased your answer. When I was doing most of my research a couple of years ago, I also found Eugene Rackley was still alive and living on Sea Island, GA, a very affluent, gated community near St Simons Island. I agree, both men probably know more than what is known publically, but I feel I have to be cautious about making public accusations against living persons who may have the resources and the inclination to be litigious. I don't feel there's any evidence Roy was actively involved in Mary's disappearance - I just have the feeling he may not have shared all his suspicions or fears. Because I've come to believe that the C&S connection between Mary and Diane is too significant to ignore - I think there may be a number of former C&S executives who could come forward with important information about these cases. But as I found with Mary's friends, time is not on our side. There were so many who had passed away before I could talk to them, and some who were incredibly helpful to me, some who continued to email me, who have passed away since I first contacted them.

 

[Tarheel72]

Nice to see all the activity here. Hope something comes of it.

 

[karefree]

Nice to see all the activity here. Hope something comes of it.

I agree. It would be so nice to to these cases resolved finally.

 

[liz b.]

They were not separated. There is absolutely no evidence to support it. In fact, she shopped for a dinner party they were having on the weekend with old friends.

ITA, they were not separated after 6 weeks of marriage...I think it was mis- reported early in the news,because Roy was out of town when Mary vanished...MOO

 

[liz b.]

I have read every police report on this case. I have never seen a witness report from anyone at the bank stating she told them she had something very important to tell them. Any idea where the Charley Project got that?

I do not know where this came from ; I too have not read or heard this anywhere else. I would dismiss it, but CP is usually so accurate.... MOO

 

[liz b.]

We still have no idea why the mother asked the detective in charge to stop the investigation. He immediately asked the FBI to wiretap the mother's home and they refused.

The FBI agent kept in frequent touch with Mary's parents.He visited them often. He attended Mary's sister's wedding.... Didn't Mary's mother ask that the investigation be stopped after the brutal murder of Diane Shields ? Might be a clue there ? Just a thought....

 

[MaryLiz]

Bumping for Mary on the 46th anniversary of her disappearance 2 days ago, October 14, 1965.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but did Mary and Diane know each other personally? I have wondered if the first disappearance was staged and Diane was the true intended victim for some reason.

 

[MaryLiz]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but did Mary and Diane know each other personally? I have wondered if the first disappearance was staged and Diane was the true intended victim for some reason.

Below is the Charley Project link to Mary's case. It says towards the bottom that investigators thought the cases were connected due to some similarities in their cases and the fact that they worked together. I don't know if they were close friends, but they probably knew each other. That's an interesting theory.


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/little_mary.html

 

[Tarheel72]

Still thinking about Mary. Too many years? Probably would take a miricle now.

 

[dogperson]

I have been re-reading this bizarre and fascinating case and still can't make sense out of all the pieces of the puzzle. There were so many links between Mary and Diane that it seems against all the odds that their cases are not connected somehow. It may have had to do with the bank or it may have had to do with an acquaintance they had in common. Diane no longer worked for the bank at the time she was killed.
The details about the car being gone from the mall parking lot, then reappearing, reminded me of the Macon GA case of Carlene Tengelsen in 1972. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tengelsen_carlene.html
http://www.macon.com/2009/08/07/802938/the-miracle-of-loss-a-two-part.html
According to Carlene's sister, when they realized she was missing they checked the mall parking lot and the family car was nowhere to be found. The police also could not find it. But later on that night, her sister found the car back in the mall parking lot at 1:45am. No evidence ever turned up about Carlene Tengelsen and it doesn't sound like her case was really investigated at all.
I know that this was 7 years after the disappearance of Mary Little and 5 years after Diane Shields' body was found, but I'm wondering if there could have been a serial killer operating during that time period in GA. I have wondered about Gerard Shaefer but I believe all his known victims were in Florida. However, he could easily have traveled to Georgia to abduct victims.
There is no reason to assume Mary Little's abductor/killer was connected to the Carlene Tengelsen case other than the similarity of the disappearing car from a mall parking lot which turned back up and also the fact that both cases occurred in the same state.
If you check Doe Network and Charley Project for the word "mall" there are quite a few women all across the United States who were last seen in or near a shopping mall. Presumably someone was approaching these women somehow and managing to get them into a vehicle and away from the area. I always think of these type of cases when going to my car in a mall parking lot. It pays to be alert.

 

[ncthom]

I have been re-reading this bizarre and fascinating case and still can't make sense out of all the pieces of the puzzle. There were so many links between Mary and Diane that it seems against all the odds that their cases are not connected somehow. It may have had to do with the bank or it may have had to do with an acquaintance they had in common. Diane no longer worked for the bank at the time she was killed.
The details about the car being gone from the mall parking lot, then reappearing, reminded me of the Macon GA case of Carlene Tengelsen in 1972. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tengelsen_carlene.html
http://www.macon.com/2009/08/07/802938/the-miracle-of-loss-a-two-part.html
According to Carlene's sister, when they realized she was missing they checked the mall parking lot and the family car was nowhere to be found. The police also could not find it. But later on that night, her sister found the car back in the mall parking lot at 1:45am. No evidence ever turned up about Carlene Tengelsen and it doesn't sound like her case was really investigated at all.
I know that this was 7 years after the disappearance of Mary Little and 5 years after Diane Shields' body was found, but I'm wondering if there could have been a serial killer operating during that time period in GA. I have wondered about Gerard Shaefer but I believe all his known victims were in Florida. However, he could easily have traveled to Georgia to abduct victims.
There is no reason to assume Mary Little's abductor/killer was connected to the Carlene Tengelsen case other than the similarity of the disappearing car from a mall parking lot which turned back up and also the fact that both cases occurred in the same state.
If you check Doe Network and Charley Project for the word "mall" there are quite a few women all across the United States who were last seen in or near a shopping mall. Presumably someone was approaching these women somehow and managing to get them into a vehicle and away from the area. I always think of these type of cases when going to my car in a mall parking lot. It pays to be alert.

The details of this case are heartbreaking. As you point out, the movement of the car and the proximity to the mall are eeriely similar to Mary's case. I'm amazed that I've never heard Carlene Tengelsen's story. Westgate was an open air shopping center - like Lenox Square was originally (before the many renovations). Westgate was considered very innovative and a big draw Middle GA in the 1960s. By 1972, The Macon Mall had opened, I believe, which may have caused Westgate to loose some of it allure. But I imagine Westgate was still considered a very safe, heavily-trafficked shopping center in 1972. How sad for this family.

 

[dogperson]

You are right, Carlene's case is very sad & was probably solvable at the time. Would love to see this investigated by a cold case team today and also would like to see some discussion on Websleuths about her. I feel like Carlene was carjacked either by some random weirdo or someone she knew (in broad daylight), forced to drive or ride somewhere in the car, probably sexually assaulted and murdered, with her body dumped somewhere. Then, apparently, the perp nonchalantly drove the car back into town and parked it back at the mall! This is the weirdest part. He had to have known people were looking for her by late that night but he did it anyway and risked being seen. He must have wiped his prints off because Carlene's sister states that after their dad forced the police to print the car, nothing of value was found. I assume this means nobody's prints were on it other than family members. If there were NO prints, then obviously the whole car was wiped down.
Other than the similarities we noted, I have serious doubts about Carlene's and Mary's cases being connected, mainly because Mary's disappearance seems to me like a kidnapping/murder for hire by someone with money, influence, and time to plan it out to the smallest detail. Either that or Mary saw or knew something that landed her in the Witness Protection Program. I've never researched the program but am wondering how often a thing like that actually happens to people.

 

[lucy dale2]

I worked for c&s bank in the 60's. The employees of the c&s, as well as other banks in the neighborhood, were not shocked to see the cases not going anywhere. How could they be? After all, power and money are every thing. Two young women with their lives planned, their hapinness in the future, means nothing to power and money. This is the bottom line.. over the years law enforcement was intimidated. No one wanted to lose their lives, their families lives, maybe even their jobs. The power was too powerful, and is still out there. Passed down through generations of the rich and powerful families that were behind all of this in the beginning, still re-enforced by their investors, partners etc. Over the years these cases have been brought back again by people who are cruel publicity seekers, pretending to be interested in writing a book. In doing so they sometimes involve others who relly care for these women, and what happened to them. Some who knew them or were close to others who did. Some of these leeches have numerous websites naming many victams, and not having the time to follow up, even if they could, or even if relly wanted to. If anyone gets too close, or starts asking too many questions. that might bring up other questions. they get squashed!!! Would like to continue this if there is any interest.