I agree about the two murders being connected. But, I read that Diane seemed to seek out Mary's old roomies, wanted to live with them . And what about Diane telling a family member that she was helping LE ? I doubt if Roy was directly involved, but do you perhaps think that he knew something ? Seasoned LE found his reactions to seeing the car telling. He didn't seem surprised at all.
GA GA - Mary Shotwell Little, 25, Atlanta, 14 Oct 1965
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I agree about the two murders being connected. But, I read that Diane seemed to seek out Mary's old roomies, wanted to live with them . And what about Diane telling a family member that she was helping LE ? I doubt if Roy was directly involved, but do you perhaps think that he knew something ? Seasoned LE found his reactions to seeing the car telling. He didn't seem surprised at all.
karenapardue
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Has there been any update to this thread? I am wondering if the remains have ever been identified. Thanks for all you have done Ray.
*****
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This case is so interesting. I tend to think this was staged. In my opinion, I think a former flame was the one calling at work and sent the flowers. Her saying the person can go to her house but she cannot go to their house was very odd. He may have been from her hometown, maybe a bad boy of types- couldn't risk now that she was married going back to see him??
Possibly that person was invited over to her house that night and they decided to leave together and start a new life. We do not know what her family life was nor her relationship with the new husband. So they set the stage to make it look like she was abducted and killed. A friend or cohort of the bad boy lover dropped the car back off with it staged. They took off in the stolen plate car from NC where they staged the gas getting with her signature so the witnesses can see the man ordering her around and her injured. Why else wouldn't she have been able to ask for help????
Now, who knows what happened after the clean getaway. They must have seen all the crazy media attention and perhaps at that time she decided to return but the bad boy lover killed her to prevent that, or they ran off into the sunset together after hiding out somewhere in NC for a time.
Possibly that person was invited over to her house that night and they decided to leave together and start a new life. We do not know what her family life was nor her relationship with the new husband. So they set the stage to make it look like she was abducted and killed. A friend or cohort of the bad boy lover dropped the car back off with it staged. They took off in the stolen plate car from NC where they staged the gas getting with her signature so the witnesses can see the man ordering her around and her injured. Why else wouldn't she have been able to ask for help????
Now, who knows what happened after the clean getaway. They must have seen all the crazy media attention and perhaps at that time she decided to return but the bad boy lover killed her to prevent that, or they ran off into the sunset together after hiding out somewhere in NC for a time.
Bingo! LE for sure. And think of the myriad ways in which LE may have muddied the waters of this investigation. What are the odds of 2 young ladies being murdered/disappearing from the same job/employer and all of the evidence gone missing in both cases from the APD AND the East Point Police. Who other than a cop can gain access to where evidence is stored? Maybe Mary Shotwells mother wanted the investigation shut down because she feared LE involvement?
Given the recent advancement in some high profile cold cases, I am hopeful that progress can be made on this. If it has not been tainted after all of these years, there should be sufficient forensic evidence from Diane's crime scene to perhaps narrow the field a bit in terms of suspects. I too believe that there was a definite connection to the bank in both crimes.
PRECONTACT
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Thom I have sent you a private message on this forum to contact me at your convenience. Thank You
PRECONTACT
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We have been studying both cases from an archaeological point of view and have tried to locate a few people that knew both women. NCTHOM commonly found in this thread is one person and anyone that knew a Judy Brownlee. Any information is appreciated.
For those interested in these cases, this is a fantastic new podcast that is covering them both in tremendous detail.
5 Roses Investigation | 11alive.com
5 Roses Investigation | 11alive.com
Hi there, could you elaborate on what you mean by studying them "from an archaeological point of view"? I am just curious about this perspective.
Mountain Mama
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The podcasts are enlightening. To hear the voices of people who lived in Atlanta discuss what Mary's disappearance did to the townfolks weighs heavy. Then for Diane to be killed and all the ties between the two of them. It is a tragedy. The podcasts bring a lot to the surface. Thanks for sharing about them on here!
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We approach the case from outside of the box. When you study history and any archaeological site you approach it differently to gather historical information. When looking at a missing person or murder you look at the cases with evidence gathered by someone else that is associated closely with it.
I can tell you that there is new information with both of these cases that has either been overlooked or ignored, but has never been addressed. We are working with a detective that has been working these for a while. There will be an announcement in the near future.
bulldoggirl77
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the podcasts 5 roses is nothing but a bunch of conspiracy theories and speculation mixed in with a few facts. people's opinions aren't solving the case nor are they helping solve it. everyone has a different opinion of what happened. the facts being mentioned have been in the news for years. is there anything new??? does anyone know?
New long form digital article from 11 alive- https://on.11alive.com/2UfWnqD.
I picked up bits of information here that were not included in the podcast or previous articles that I have read.
I picked up bits of information here that were not included in the podcast or previous articles that I have read.
In 1965, newlywed bride, Mary Shotwell Little, vanished from Atlanta’s Lenox Square shopping center.
About 18 months later, and just a few miles away, newly-engaged Diane Shields was found murdered in the trunk of her own car in 1967, alongside an East Point, Ga., dry cleaners and laundromat.
Both women worked for the same bank. Both received seemingly distressing phone calls. Both received roses at work.
But more than 50 years later, questions loom.
What happened to Mary?
Who killed Diane?
And will their lives and subsequent demises meet somewhere in the middle, entangling the mysteries surrounding them both?
These are their stories.
LINK:
5 Roses, 2 women: An eternal connection
About 18 months later, and just a few miles away, newly-engaged Diane Shields was found murdered in the trunk of her own car in 1967, alongside an East Point, Ga., dry cleaners and laundromat.
Both women worked for the same bank. Both received seemingly distressing phone calls. Both received roses at work.
But more than 50 years later, questions loom.
What happened to Mary?
Who killed Diane?
And will their lives and subsequent demises meet somewhere in the middle, entangling the mysteries surrounding them both?
These are their stories.
LINK:
5 Roses, 2 women: An eternal connection
June 3, 2019
5 Roses, 2 women: Police investigate murdered woman found in car trunk
"Judy Brownlee worked in the auditing department at C&S Bank and was both Mary and Diane’s former roommate. She tells police that the girls at the bank were jealous of Diane and for the attention the men gave her.
She also says that Diane used Kay Chandler’s pistol sometimes because she was afraid to be at home alone at night.
****
Sandra Fleming owned a pistol that Diane carried with her—at least one time she took it to Alabama with her.
She also tells police that Diane’s roommates were not happy about her engagement news.
****
James Randolph Payton Jr., 25, was employed at John Todd Service Station and serviced Diane’s car. He tells police that Diane told him she was involved in the Mary Shotwell Little case.
“She said that she was tied up somehow in the Mary Little case and that the police had told her not to give her address or phone number to anybody.”
Several people tell police that Diane talked about Mary a lot, even showing an investigator’s business card at one point – leading some to believe she may have been involved in some amateur sleuthing into Mary’s disappearance.
****
Clarence Lee Crumbley, 32, who was fired from C&S Bank, was friends with Diane.
He tells police that he believes Diane’s and Mary’s cases are connected and tied somehow to the personnel department at the bank. But he is too scared to talk – and feels like he was in danger at the bank – the bank, he says, that was loaned to the max.
Further, he says the day after he divulged to Brownlee, some personnel issues, he was fired.
He tells police in detail what those said personnel issues were—but would only do so off the record."
"Following Mary’s disappearance and Diane’s murder, there are other calls to the police about suspicious happenings with C&S Bank employees, including the Mitchell Street branch’s vice president of operations, 44-year-old Herman Zimmerman.
Zimmerman’s wife, Sara McCaw Zimmerman, reports him missing to DeKalb County Police Department around noon on June 2.
The following day, at 11:55 a.m., Richard calls to say that he is OK and would be home later that day.
RELATED: 5 Roses | Chapter IV: Money runs this town
Six days later, Jack Mullinax—a witness who saw Diane’s car with two men inside before she was found murdered—is followed by an unknown man around 3 p.m.
At 5 p.m., the unknown man gets into his car and makes Mullinax him drive to Henry County, where he forces him out of the car and shoots him.
In his statement to police, Mullinax says, the man is the same man he saw the night Diane was killed and he saw him reach into her car’s backseat.
Days later, he recants his story and tells police that he shot himself because of debt."
"Do you know what happened?
If you have any information on either of these cases, contact the Atlanta Police Department, at (404) 614-6544, East Point Police Department, at (404) 761-2177, or the FBI Atlanta office, at (770) 216-3000.
You can also reach out to Crime Stoppers, at (404) 577-TIPS."
5 Roses, 2 women: Police investigate murdered woman found in car trunk
"Judy Brownlee worked in the auditing department at C&S Bank and was both Mary and Diane’s former roommate. She tells police that the girls at the bank were jealous of Diane and for the attention the men gave her.
She also says that Diane used Kay Chandler’s pistol sometimes because she was afraid to be at home alone at night.
****
Sandra Fleming owned a pistol that Diane carried with her—at least one time she took it to Alabama with her.
She also tells police that Diane’s roommates were not happy about her engagement news.
****
James Randolph Payton Jr., 25, was employed at John Todd Service Station and serviced Diane’s car. He tells police that Diane told him she was involved in the Mary Shotwell Little case.
“She said that she was tied up somehow in the Mary Little case and that the police had told her not to give her address or phone number to anybody.”
Several people tell police that Diane talked about Mary a lot, even showing an investigator’s business card at one point – leading some to believe she may have been involved in some amateur sleuthing into Mary’s disappearance.
****
Clarence Lee Crumbley, 32, who was fired from C&S Bank, was friends with Diane.
He tells police that he believes Diane’s and Mary’s cases are connected and tied somehow to the personnel department at the bank. But he is too scared to talk – and feels like he was in danger at the bank – the bank, he says, that was loaned to the max.
Further, he says the day after he divulged to Brownlee, some personnel issues, he was fired.
He tells police in detail what those said personnel issues were—but would only do so off the record."
"Following Mary’s disappearance and Diane’s murder, there are other calls to the police about suspicious happenings with C&S Bank employees, including the Mitchell Street branch’s vice president of operations, 44-year-old Herman Zimmerman.
Zimmerman’s wife, Sara McCaw Zimmerman, reports him missing to DeKalb County Police Department around noon on June 2.
The following day, at 11:55 a.m., Richard calls to say that he is OK and would be home later that day.
RELATED: 5 Roses | Chapter IV: Money runs this town
Six days later, Jack Mullinax—a witness who saw Diane’s car with two men inside before she was found murdered—is followed by an unknown man around 3 p.m.
At 5 p.m., the unknown man gets into his car and makes Mullinax him drive to Henry County, where he forces him out of the car and shoots him.
In his statement to police, Mullinax says, the man is the same man he saw the night Diane was killed and he saw him reach into her car’s backseat.
Days later, he recants his story and tells police that he shot himself because of debt."
"Do you know what happened?
If you have any information on either of these cases, contact the Atlanta Police Department, at (404) 614-6544, East Point Police Department, at (404) 761-2177, or the FBI Atlanta office, at (770) 216-3000.
You can also reach out to Crime Stoppers, at (404) 577-TIPS."
Markybug
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Interesting new reply to that blog recently..
-
Ray pateApril 30, 2019 at 8:06 PM
Amazing that science has advanced to where I am
Getting D.N.A. Markers from dental records and
Other means where I can identify the killer of Mary
Shotwell Little and Diane Shields. After 4 years of
hard work, I am soon going to. clear up the murders of
the two lady secretaries from c and s bank .never sleep, always working..Refer to the D.N.A. arrest of the California
serial killer. Stay tuned
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