GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[concernedcitizen706]

I understand that, but a more natural progression would be something less extreme IMO. For instance, shooting Russell and/or Shirley execution style then simply leaving them for dead. Additionally, if the murders were second to the robbery, why was nothing taken?

I wonder why the killer(s) didn't set a fire or something as a way to destroy evidence. I also question if the decapitation was an attempt to throw off investigators.

Or, maybe it was entirely personally motivated. Cutting off the head to further demean and dehumanize the victim.

To go from never having killed, to beating an elderly woman to death with a hammer, disposing of her body, and decapitating her husband? Why would a group of experienced burglars with an established pattern of subdueing their victims without lethal force suddenly change course?

The Dermonds were elderly, it's not as though they posed a threat.

I agree. This was not robbery. If it was he would have taken something. He had plenty of time in the house to do it.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I was reading some of the much earlier posts here. For example one post I saw here, that was on October 11, 2019, post num 215. And I was surprised to learn here, that one of the members of the world famous music band from Georgia, the band R.E.M., had a lot next door, right on the lake next to the Dermonds. From what people wrote there, it seems like he just had a lot there and no house. I'm not sure what was all built on the property, but maybe they had a dock with a boat. That would make sense, if you're on the lake. The guy was of course a member of a very well-known music band, perhaps he had outdoor parties and get-togethers there for people on the lake, either personal and or for people in the music business. And that could be a connection to how somebody noticed the Dermonds, right nearby. I wonder if that house had an electric boat. If somebody went to a party there in the past, and they all got in the boat at some point, then that would be an excuse for their DNA or other genetic material already being in the boat. The post here also mentioned that the REM guy was not there at the time of the murder, and also several other houses nearby were also not occupied that night. So maybe the perp parked next door. And instead of the boat being taken from far away, maybe he got the boat right next door, dumped the body, came back to the same house, and drove off.

 

[dotr]

''Premieres Aug 9, 2024 #MurderMystery #CriminalInvestigation #GeorgiaCrime
Welcome to Behind The Headlines. In May 2014, the upscale community of Lake Oconee in Georgia was rocked by a horrifying crime. Russell and Shirley Dermond, a beloved couple, vanished without a trace, leaving behind a chilling crime scene. When their friend Peggy Winn discovered Russell’s headless body in the garage and Shirley missing, the investigation into their deaths became one of Georgia’s most perplexing cases.In this detailed video, Joshua John of Behind the Headlines delves into the tragic murder of Russell and Shirley Dermond. We explore the sequence of events leading up to their disappearance, the grisly details of the crime scene, and the ongoing investigation that has puzzled authorities for years. From the brutal nature of Russell's murder to the discovery of Shirley's body in Lake Oconee, we cover every aspect of this baffling case.Join us as we review the initial findings, theories about potential suspects, and recent developments in the case. With new DNA evidence and advanced technology providing fresh hope, the quest for justice continues. If you have any information that could help solve this case, contact the Putnam County Sheriff's Office or the FBI’s Atlanta Field Office.''

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I was reading some older posts from the case here again. I learned a couple things. One was that there was no food left in their stomach, and food takes like 7 hours to digest. And two, is that Shirley's had sustained very strong blows to her head, it created a lot of damage.

So the first item of information tells me, that they were killed probably early in the morning. You know like 7 hours after their dinner time. So let's say they ate early at 5:00 p.m., + 7 hours = 12:00 a.m. So I picture it like, the husband, in his robe, already went to bed, maybe he was reading in his bed. And the wife being dressed, was maybe downstairs watching something late night on TV on the couch, half napping. And I believe she didn't do the crossword puzzle the next day or the paper wasn't picked up, so I think that leaves a pretty good indication of when this happened.

The second piece of information tells me that a very large heavy object was used on Shirley. Not just a little object. You know, not just like the back end of a gun or something. This had to be something a little more substantial. For example, like a crowbar. And I really don't think you can do that on a boat. Unless maybe like she was on the boat and he was like still on the dock, bracing himself.

So I was looking on Google maps some more, trying to see if you could drive over the dam and just drop the body off the side of the dam. But yeah, it does not look like it's the type of dam you can just drive on.

But another thing I learned while looking at Google maps, is there are a few campgrounds right around the dam, where the wife's body was dumped. So that could be where the perp parked and got the boat. Now that might work out for him, because let's say he camped there before and rented some boat there. That would be an explanation for his genetics to be in that boat.

So I could go two ways on this. Either he parked at the campground and got a boat there. Or he parked right next door to the house, and got a boat from very nearby at a vacant house somewhere.

It's also kind of interesting to me reading the old comments, is how many people think this is a hit, or a revenge killing. I doubt it. This sounds to me more like a serial killing, kind of like Dennis Raider. From a serial killer we have operating in the area.

Also was there any info of some keys being left there next to the lamp in the garage? Just wondering.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I was thinking about it some more. I think it's more likely the perp parked next door with his car. Because first of all, he had to drive by there several times before, to learn the house layout. Then he had to probably drive by there, one or two times before, that same night, to make sure nothing unusual was happening there. And he wants his car nearby for a quick getaway, just in case.

So we know the empty lot next door was owned by one of the REM members. We should look at somebody who's acquainted with the REM member, and or knows that guy's schedule. For example someone who would be aware of when he's playing a show, or traveling. Because he knows, that if the guy is away playing a concert a certain night, then he knows he can go park there at his lot without any problems. I don't know what type of parking they have there on that lot, if it is some gravel road that's deeper in and hidden behind some trees, that's even better. That would be the lure for him.

This would be one good way for the perp to notice the Dermonds. Either he was invited to a party there at REMs lot, or maybe he used to vacation there and he heard about it through local legend, that the band member had a lot there. And one day, he drove by out of curiosity to go look at. Perhaps he was already interested in using it as a parking lot to commit crimes. And was looking around at who was next door. And he noticed the Dermonds there. He thought they were an easy target, and he made his plan. He must have parked in that lot enough to notice the Dermonds schedule too.

Now I don't know what type of boat they had lying around there nearby, one of the neighbors, who were not there. He could have gotten a boat there.

Or he could more likely I think, put Shirley in his car. And he drove her maybe to the campground near the dam. He put her in a boat there, and then just had to go out a little bit out in lake to dump her body, and then come back. He could have even just used a rowboat for that short trip. Because I think him going miles on a boat, in the open lake, is a little bit insecure for him. He's always safer in a car. So he would want to minimize his time on the boat. Perhaps he had already checked out a boat there beforehand. One that he knew would not be seen by anybody. Of course he probably did this late night.

I mean apparently he stayed there overnight, so he had plenty of time to go back and forth.

Of course another element of this case is the perp probably knew lock picking as well. That's how he was able to get into the house through unforced entry. So we should look for somebody in the area who was accused of knowing lockpicking, and who maybe has an arrest record of trespassing in other people's houses. A connection to the music industry here would also be good

 

[Valiant]

So I was thinking about it some more. I think it's more likely the perp parked next door with his car. Because first of all, he had to drive by there several times before, to learn the house layout. Then he had to probably drive by there, one or two times before, that same night, to make sure nothing unusual was happening there. And he wants his car nearby for a quick getaway, just in case.

So we know the empty lot next door was owned by one of the REM members. We should look at somebody who's acquainted with the REM member, and or knows that guy's schedule. For example someone who would be aware of when he's playing a show, or traveling. Because he knows, that if the guy is away playing a concert a certain night, then he knows he can go park there at his lot without any problems. I don't know what type of parking they have there on that lot, if it is some gravel road that's deeper in and hidden behind some trees, that's even better. That would be the lure for him.

This would be one good way for the perp to notice the Dermonds. Either he was invited to a party there at REMs lot, or maybe he used to vacation there and he heard about it through local legend, that the band member had a lot there. And one day, he drove by out of curiosity to go look at. Perhaps he was already interested in using it as a parking lot to commit crimes. And was looking around at who was next door. And he noticed the Dermonds there. He thought they were an easy target, and he made his plan. He must have parked in that lot enough to notice the Dermonds schedule too.

Now I don't know what type of boat they had lying around there nearby, one of the neighbors, who were not there. He could have gotten a boat there.

Or he could more likely I think, put Shirley in his car. And he drove her maybe to the campground near the dam. He put her in a boat there, and then just had to go out a little bit out in lake to dump her body, and then come back. He could have even just used a rowboat for that short trip. Because I think him going miles on a boat, in the open lake, is a little bit insecure for him. He's always safer in a car. So he would want to minimize his time on the boat. Perhaps he had already checked out a boat there beforehand. One that he knew would not be seen by anybody. Of course he probably did this late night.

I mean apparently he stayed there overnight, so he had plenty of time to go back and forth.

Of course another element of this case is the perp probably knew lock picking as well. That's how he was able to get into the house through unforced entry. So we should look for somebody in the area who was accused of knowing lockpicking, and who maybe has an arrest record of trespassing in other people's houses. A connection to the music industry here would also be good

As I see it, it's going to be far easier, without being seen, to take Shirley from the back of the house into a boat at their dock. Once on the water at that time of the night no one if going to see what's in the boat, especially under a tarp.

There would be far more possible exposure loading her into a car at the front of the house, then later transferring her from a car to the boat. The transfer from car to boat almost had to happen in an open area with a boat ramp.

Things that worked in the killer's favor is the heavy tree cover in the area and around the house, that probably enough people night fished that a boat on the lake at night would not concern people, and that some homes in the vicinity were vacation/weekend houses and may have been unoccupied.

 

[61Montcalm]

It's also kind of interesting to me reading the old comments, is how many people think this is a hit, or a revenge killing. I doubt it. This sounds to me more like a serial killing, kind of like Dennis Raider. From a serial killer we have operating in the area.

That's an interesting idea - I had been of the mind that this was a revenge killing perhaps due to something in their business lives long ago, or as punishment for perceived bad behaviour by one of their children or relatives. But serial killer is also possibility.

If we were to look at the serial killer angle, how would you think that the Dermonds were chosen or selected as targets?

It looks like it would be easy to spy on their daily activities and routine from various vantage points around the lake and the housing development, and to follow them around in a car unnoticed as they went about their daily / weekly business.

I'm just curious as to what might motivate a serial killer to target a peaceful, unobtrusive although wealthy couple enjoying their retirement?

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Well I guess we can come up with different possible interpretations as to how he spotted them in the first place. But let's get past that, to once he spotted them.

So once he spotted them, he was probably attracted to them, because they were older. And a lot of killers are attracted to kill older people because they feel like they're physically easier to kill. Not only that, he gets to kill two of them, which is more of an exciting challenge for him. The woman can watch the husband die and vice versa. But since they're older, he feels like he still can handle both of them.

They lived in a very isolated lot. I don't know how often you're going to find that so easily. And he was probably impressed with their wealth and the fact that they had a long-lasting marriage. That made it more of a conquest for him. He probably had a thing for very older women. There are some
sexual assaulters who are into that. They have a big mommy complex.

I wonder if he had some business in the area, for example performing at bars or restaurants nearby. Were there weddings in the area that he helped set up? So that would make it more convenient for him to be there regularly.

But I think the main reason was the house was very isolated. So they could scream or run out the house, and no one would hear it. Which is apparently what happened actually.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

As I see it, it's going to be far easier, without being seen, to take Shirley from the back of the house into a boat at their dock. Once on the water at that time of the night no one if going to see what's in the boat, especially under a tarp.

There would be far more possible exposure loading her into a car at the front of the house, then later transferring her from a car to the boat. The transfer from car to boat almost had to happen in an open area with a boat ramp.

Things that worked in the killer's favor is the heavy tree cover in the area and around the house, that probably enough people night fished that a boat on the lake at night would not concern people, and that some homes in the vicinity were vacation/weekend houses and may have been unoccupied.

I see your points and they are valid points. However I think you are not appreciating the total isolation of their house. For example, the husband ran outside and literally got shot on his front lawn and nobody heard a thing. The perp was apparently hanging around for a day or days afterwards, and boldly hanging around outside, because he was apparently seen by somebody. So he didn't seem like a guy who was too afraid of being seen.

So if the perp wasn't afraid of that, I don't think he's going to be afraid of loading a body quickly into the car. He can back up his car to the garage door. 5 or 10 minutes. If he does this like at 4:00 a.m. in the morning, no one's going to see him. I doubt he would worry one second about it.

But here's the thing, I think he put Shirley in his car alive. Probably tied up hands. She was probably too exhausted at this point to scream. He drove her alive over to the campground. He made her get in a rowboat. The rowboat was still on land. This way he doesn't have to carry her anywhere. That's important, the guy's kind of lazy, he doesn't want to have to carry her anywhere. And then hit her on the back of the head, while she was sitting in the rowboat, on land. Because he can't hit her on the head that hard while they're on the water, because that would destabilize the boat. Maybe the blocks and such were in the rowboat. I suppose he had to be careful on how he actually threw her out of the boat, without capsizing his boat. He had to do it slowly.

But yeah you have to appreciate the total boldness of the guy. This guy was not faint of heart. He had been doing similar things, such as boldly invading houses, for years already. This was no big deal for him.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

That's an interesting idea - I had been of the mind that this was a revenge killing perhaps due to something in their business lives long ago, or as punishment for perceived bad behaviour by one of their children or relatives. But serial killer is also possibility.

If we were to look at the serial killer angle, how would you think that the Dermonds were chosen or selected as targets?

It looks like it would be easy to spy on their daily activities and routine from various vantage points around the lake and the housing development, and to follow them around in a car unnoticed as they went about their daily / weekly business.

I'm just curious as to what might motivate a serial killer to target a peaceful, unobtrusive although wealthy couple enjoying their retirement?

The second above reply was to you by the way, I did not get your quote in there.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I also want to just say quickly, that just because he killed an older couple this time, does not mean he's always going to go after the same situation, as in, always an older couple in the country. For example, the next time, he could kill a 40 year old woman in a public park. It's all about the experience and the challenge for him. Not necessarily the profile of the people he kills.