GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Deleted member 162919]

It was definitely revenge no doubt.

 

[Lawdog99]

Because the wife’s body was weighted down in an amateur manner and floated to the surface of the lake, A professional hit is unlikely.

I’ve only just read about this case today, and my first reaction is that it’s related to the deceased sons drug dealings. This is a revenge hit for time spent in jail,etc.

Amateur opinion and speculation.
Payback hit.

I can't rack my head around an amateur performing the decapitation.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I can't rack my head around an amateur performing the decapitation.

LE would know immediately based on how the remains looked. However, my point about not properly weighting the remains of the Mrs. and having them surface does suggest amateur status.

I just did a little more reading thinking I was hot on to something, and have come up empty handed. First, I thought there might be some connection to the druggie son, meaning he owed a lot of money that the Perp(s) came to collect from the father. However, the son was killed in 2000; seemingly more than adequate distance from the 2014 murders of his parents. The other living children have taken, and passed poly's.

Next, I went more to the improbable, wondering if this seemingly sweet elderly couple had some nefarious dealings. LE forensically went back through their financial records for eight years and didn't see anything. This, of course, doesn't mean they didn't have offshore accounts.....but given their profile, unlikely.

The "signature" here looks very similar to drug deal related crimes we have seen in the past; decapitation has been the calling card warning to all. If I were forced to guess, I would say these murders were drug related. Perhaps past debts unpaid related to the deceased son, or other activities.

I know that sounds outrageous as it relates to this oft referred to "salt of the earth" elderly couple, but that's what I'm coming up with.

All amateur speculation and opinion.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Check out the Sherman double murder the latest news is about his cousin who said he dreamed about decapitating his cousin and dragging him through the parking lot. Beheadings don't happen much here as in other countries but when they do it usually suggest rage or revenge . The cult arrests were almost 10 years before this murder happened that's a lot of time . SS says he has dna and i'm sure a composite profile was run on that so he knows the gender and race of the person who's dna he has. 2 things about the dna SS has. 1 the dna matches someone who has probably been to the house recently and he can't prove otherwise 2 The dna came back with no hit in the system ( highly unlikely but possible) but he still knows specifics about the person such as race, gender, probably hair color etc.

SS is sitting on a treasure trove of evidence but can't make a move unless ( his exact words ) he gets a call from someone. Why? Because the evidence he has can be easily contested in court and would probably be thrown out because he can't prove it was from the time of the murders. I can say with certainty he has known since the beginning or at least the 1st month who did this. This case and it's files are in the department basement just waiting for the dots to be connected. SS probably hasn't worked this case more than a dozen times in almost 4 years after the 1st few months

This is true for many cases. The DA only gets one shot at conviction, they've got to prove beyond reasonable doubt. They often do know, but must *prove* it.

 

[kay74]

Because the wife’s body was weighted down in an amateur manner and floated to the surface of the lake, A professional hit is unlikely.

I’ve only just read about this case today, and my first reaction is that it’s related to the deceased sons drug dealings. This is a revenge hit for time spent in jail,etc.

Amateur opinion and speculation.
Payback hit.

My thinking is also there could be a druggie grandson or granddaughter and a friend who did this. They got to have grandkids in late teens early 20's and the alarm was fooled with a couple weeks before, at Easter I believe, when they had relatives over. It's a long shot but you never know. I hope it's not this. I also have the feeling someone was staying with them. Maybe I'm wrong on that too. MOO

 

[Deleted member 162919]

They have grandkids and 2 of them at least are in their late 20's the others are teens. 2 have also lived in Atlanta area and 1 was living there at the time of the murders. I'm not convinced this was over drug money I lean more towards inheritance . I think the elder Dermonds had 2 or 3 million is assets like life insurance, 401k or other investments , savings etc. I also find it odd how little the family has spoken about these murders and also why they didn't put up any reward money. They sold the house way under value and pretty fast that raises a flag too. I also have to wonder why SS had a cold case team in Jacksonville looking into the case before it was cold and even more odd is the location of that cold case team which is the home of one of the dermond kids . I think this was more of a keep an eye on them for us because it's out of our jurisdiction. Here's what I do know. The murderers knew the area well and the Dermonds and their house. I know this wasn't a robbery gone bad and it also wasn't a random killing. Someone liked Mrs Dermond more than Mr. Dermond by the way they were both found. 2 30 pound cinder blocks tells me they might not be amateurs but maybe they wanted the body found after awhile

Someone in the family broke down during questioning and SS said she wasn't being truthful I wonder what she wasn't being truthful about and also why. There were other things I dug up that I found very odd but won't go into those on the thread. I hate to say it but this is all pointing towards family. If this was over drugs the murderers would have stolen something of value but nothing of value was taken according to SS.

 

[Bootsctr]

CRIME SCENE Indicators noted:

Several factors at the scene are indicative of offender sophistication. One
index of this professionalism is the weapon that is used. Customized suppressors,
handguns, or other instruments of death often indicate a specialist
who is comfortable with killing. The crime scene may reflect this in other
ways, including LITTLE OR NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE LEFT AT SCENE, effective staging,
ELABORATE BODY DISPOSAL, and a crime scene that shows a systematic,
orderly approach before, during, and after the crime

STAGING OR LACK OF:
If staging is absent, there will be no other crime indicators: for
example, NOTHING will be MISSING , and there will be NO SEXUAL assault. Secondary
criminal activity may mean that the offender is YOUTHFUL, an AMATEUR,
or of low intelligence.

Secondary criminal activity to confuse the primary motive of murder may
include the appearance of: KIDNAPPING.

COMMON FORENSIC FINDINGS:
The veteran professional killer, for example, may
choose a weapon that is difficult to trace and focus the area of injury to the
victim’s vital organs, especially the HEAD. A blitz or ambush style of attack is also common
to this type of killing.


HERE AGAIN, SOMETHING PROFESSIONAL AND SOMETHING NOT

So what does that imply then about the perpetrator?

-----
from the FBI crime manual

Just my opinion, but the Dermonds knew their killer/s. It is someone who knew their schedule. They knew about the Derby Party. They knew when the daughter would be leaving. They knew it would be Tuesday before anyone would come searching for them as they were aware of Shirley's regularly scheduled Bridge game. They could have known about the cameras not working, but I'm not sure cameras would have mattered as I think they did come by lake. I believe they were very familiar with the lake. I believe the killer lives close, if not on Lake Oconee. I believe this is someone who may have done some kind of house repair work for them previously. I don't think the killer is a youngster or teen or even early 20's. I do believe this person has some type of military background. Not professional, but they did research for these murders. Could be somebody that fishes extensively in the area and even the sister lakes. I think they miscalculated how the reservoir would work with regards to Mrs. D's body. I think they expected her body to stay at 50 feet below.

 

[Bootsctr]

They have grandkids and 2 of them at least are in their late 20's the others are teens. 2 have also lived in Atlanta area and 1 was living there at the time of the murders. I'm not convinced this was over drug money I lean more towards inheritance . I think the elder Dermonds had 2 or 3 million is assets like life insurance, 401k or other investments , savings etc. I also find it odd how little the family has spoken about these murders and also why they didn't put up any reward money. They sold the house way under value and pretty fast that raises a flag too. I also have to wonder why SS had a cold case team in Jacksonville looking into the case before it was cold and even more odd is the location of that cold case team which is the home of one of the dermond kids . I think this was more of a keep an eye on them for us because it's out of our jurisdiction. Here's what I do know. The murderers knew the area well and the Dermonds and their house. I know this wasn't a robbery gone bad and it also wasn't a random killing. Someone liked Mrs Dermond more than Mr. Dermond by the way they were both found. 2 30 pound cinder blocks tells me they might not be amateurs but maybe they wanted the body found after awhile

Someone in the family broke down during questioning and SS said she wasn't being truthful I wonder what she wasn't being truthful about and also why. There were other things I dug up that I found very odd but won't go into those on the thread. I hate to say it but this is all pointing towards family. If this was over drugs the murderers would have stolen something of value but nothing of value was taken according to SS.

I could get on board with this theory too! The family are the only people who could say if something was missing . . . And they aren't saying much of ANYTHING! They haven't even spread their ashes on the Lake - if I remember correctly! Something about it just didn't feel right any more since they were murdered there.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Well, unless you know how dark and quiet it is on the lake, I think it's possible but risky either way, but if alive she was probalby in a state of shock, may have had to half carry her anyway, can you imagine?! Just horrible to imagine what she went thru if still alive later..

I still believe Mrs. D was alive when taken from the home. I just don't see someone risking being seen toting a body down to a boat whether it be there or some other lake entering. JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Horrible to think....whatever happened, it was someone they trusted

This got me thinking what if Mrs. D went willing out to a boat to go for a boatride with someone claiming "Hey I want you to see my new boat, I will ride you out on the lake while Mr. D talks to X. Mr. D is killed while they are gone and Mrs. D killed out on water and thrown out like trash. So sad no matter how it happened. Nobody deserves this kind of death. jmo

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

for everything that was professional done, there was something equally UN PROFFESIONALLY DONE

what does that say about the killer/s...........

he was a pro?

he wasn't a pro?

does it mean it was meant to LOOK professional but the body had to surface (which appears unproffesional) soon to get the inheritance

the whole thing is to confuse quite possibly

who knows

I can't rack my head around an amateur performing the decapitation.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

IT has been mentioned here before that one grandchild inherited from grandparents, the others did not........which one? How was that information gleaned?

I was always under the impression drugees would have left a mess, in the house, stolen things etc, left a trail, especially amateur types

You dont think that kay?

My thinking is also there could be a druggie grandson or granddaughter and a friend who did this. They got to have grandkids in late teens early 20's and the alarm was fooled with a couple weeks before, at Easter I believe, when they had relatives over. It's a long shot but you never know. I hope it's not this. I also have the feeling someone was staying with them. Maybe I'm wrong on that too. MOO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Lawdog, just remembered, it was new moon during this time, the lake area, cove, empty lot at end of street on end of small cove and no street lights, ITS BLACK out, no one would see a thing,

What the heck, Luck or planned? to have a new moon, no neighbors home , on a cul de sac, no neighbors in the cul de sac either AND everyone busy with the Derby party

UNBELIEVABLE, right !?!?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The sheriff repeatedly stated that the perpetrators left the crime scene "very clean" also known as "no evidence". Imo, the killer or killers had to take Mr. Dermont's head because it contained one or more of their bullets. The killer or killers may not be pros, but they had studied how to get away with murder.

 

[kay74]

IT has been mentioned here before that one grandchild inherited from grandparents, the others did not........which one? How was that information gleaned?

I was always under the impression drugees would have left a mess, in the house, stolen things etc, left a trail, especially amateur types

You dont think that kay?

Yes, You're right. I was just thinking, druggies are so desperate for money, that they would be the ones doing this to get their inheritance, but yes he/she would have stole something. I wonder why they would give only "one" grandchild part of their inheritance? That seems weird, if in fact it's even true.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

wouldnt a druggee have stolen items left lying around, there was a whole host of alcohol in the basement....No I cant fathom that, unless it was a family member in drugs who could not take anything from the home for fear of being discovered by others in the family recognizing something

I think it's more than drug related

LE would know immediately based on how the remains looked. However, my point about not properly weighting the remains of the Mrs. and having them surface does suggest amateur status.

I just did a little more reading thinking I was hot on to something, and have come up empty handed. First, I thought there might be some connection to the druggie son, meaning he owed a lot of money that the Perp(s) came to collect from the father. However, the son was killed in 2000; seemingly more than adequate distance from the 2014 murders of his parents. The other living children have taken, and passed poly's.

Next, I went more to the improbable, wondering if this seemingly sweet elderly couple had some nefarious dealings. LE forensically went back through their financial records for eight years and didn't see anything. This, of course, doesn't mean they didn't have offshore accounts.....but given their profile, unlikely.

The "signature" here looks very similar to drug deal related crimes we have seen in the past; decapitation has been the calling card warning to all. If I were forced to guess, I would say these murders were drug related. Perhaps past debts unpaid related to the deceased son, or other activities.

I know that sounds outrageous as it relates to this oft referred to "salt of the earth" elderly couple, but that's what I'm coming up with.

All amateur speculation and opinion.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

and the D's knew their perpetrators

wouldnt a druggee have stolen items left lying around, there was a whole host of alcohol in the basement....No I cant fathom that, unless it was a family member in drugs who could not take anything from the home for fear of being discovered by others in the family recognizing something

I think it's more than drug related

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

and the amount of time spent there, probalby 5am til after midnight saturday night to get her in the boat when all was quiet out,

according to the FBI Manual, the time spent AT THE CRIME SCENE, tells us who, TELLS us they were VERY COMFORTABLE in that house, cove, lake

they knew where they dropped her was an alcove full of tree stumps, that would have the appearnce they didnt want her found

but the gases and her body surfacing say otherwise IMO

They had every thing in this case on their side and they screwed up the dumping of the body?!?! seriously?I wonder but IDK but I do wonder

if the body wasnt found, how long would it take to get the inheritance

this screams of someone VERY FAMILIAR with the Dermonds

The time spent at the residence and on the lake, putting the boat in, taking the boat out....this all was the clencher for me besides nothing notable taken, nothing rummaged thru etc, not drugs, someone very close to family and the area, they'd been there many many many many times, due to time spent at the crime scene, the man on the law, he was comfortable or he wouldnt have been out there

Follow the money

I think SS knows who... like Hockeyguy has been stating and after reading the FBI manual, it was planned to be confusing and some thing to look pro and some things not because it had to be done that way to get the inheriteance

JMAO

They have grandkids and 2 of them at least are in their late 20's the others are teens. 2 have also lived in Atlanta area and 1 was living there at the time of the murders. I'm not convinced this was over drug money I lean more towards inheritance . I think the elder Dermonds had 2 or 3 million is assets like life insurance, 401k or other investments , savings etc. I also find it odd how little the family has spoken about these murders and also why they didn't put up any reward money. They sold the house way under value and pretty fast that raises a flag too. I also have to wonder why SS had a cold case team in Jacksonville looking into the case before it was cold and even more odd is the location of that cold case team which is the home of one of the dermond kids . I think this was more of a keep an eye on them for us because it's out of our jurisdiction. Here's what I do know. The murderers knew the area well and the Dermonds and their house. I know this wasn't a robbery gone bad and it also wasn't a random killing. Someone liked Mrs Dermond more than Mr. Dermond by the way they were both found. 2 30 pound cinder blocks tells me they might not be amateurs but maybe they wanted the body found after awhile

Someone in the family broke down during questioning and SS said she wasn't being truthful I wonder what she wasn't being truthful about and also why. There were other things I dug up that I found very odd but won't go into those on the thread. I hate to say it but this is all pointing towards family. If this was over drugs the murderers would have stolen something of value but nothing of value was taken according to SS.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I wondered that too kay and I dont know who found that out or how and if it's true or not,maybe theyll read and expound on that, iddont remember who posted that

Yes, You're right. I was just thinking, druggies are so desperate for money, that they would be the ones doing this to get their inheritance, but yes he/she would have stole something. I wonder why they would give only "one" grandchild part of their inheritance? That seems weird, if in fact it's even true.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

maybe the head was simply taken due to the killers blood on RD's head

no way to wipe that up

and what kind of bullets lodge at close range

GSR was on his back but very little IIRC