GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[ClaireNC]

It was stated in the article that that the credit card transaction was used to purchase something online from Amazon. Now, I'm no detective or anything, but if you buy something from Amazon and have it shipped to your house, just how much "investigating" is required to obtain the shipping address of the person who made the purchase ??

Seems pretty easy to me. Then again, I'm not a trained detective. (maybe I should be)

Amazon will ship to a PO box if you use the US Postal Service for delivery. Also thieves/scammers often use drop boxes, like a UPS store or Mailbox Etc. They use fake ID's to obtain the drop boxes, or stolen identities. In organized groups of scammers they use unsuspecting victims to receive and reship packages for them.

 

[Foxfire]

I know that we've probably already hashed this into the ground, but I couldn't stop thinking about this aspect of the case last night - I think it's a very important clue as to whether or not SD was placed in a way to be found, or placed to stay underwater and hopefully never be located... jmo





So after it's been percolating through my brain overnight, and with a couple of new posts about the placement, along with how upset and disturbed the fishermen were - I remembered seeing this and started looking for the video that Carolinapeach had posted earlier - I wanted to see what you all thought about it...

In one of the interviews with the fishermen, one of them refers to seeing something that they describe as "maybe a buoy" but then as they got closer, realized it wasn't and called 911... Take a look at this still image that I pulled from the WSB video where Elliot says this is the location where she was found - see the buoy? It's sitting upright and tall in the water, right? If she was laying down in the water and just floating, would they have said they thought it was a buoy?? I'm sorry this is so graphic and gruesome, but I'm now beginning to think she WAS tied to one of these trees and was placed upright so that she would definitely be FOUND:



This is all JMO.

Good catch, Dr. Watson. I believe you may be on to something.. However, I disagree that the perps wanted her to be found. Imo, the item used to anchor SD, was not heavy enough to keep her submerged once the decomp gases built up. Imo, a cinder block or similar item was likely used as an anchor on SD.

The reason that I don't think the perps wanted her to be found is twofold.. The dead trees are habitat for turtles which are the primary scavengers of the lake. Also the probability of the body getting hung up in tree limbs once the decomp gases increased would have been much greater, preventing her discovery, than in the open water..

I can certainly understand the affect that the discovery of the body had on the fishermen, if found upright like a buoy.. Had to be a very traumatic experience..

Imo, the victims of homicides want to be revealed.. Imo, there is a spiritual connection in virtually everyone of these horrific cases.. The victims will speak too, and guide those who will simply listen..

Imo, we all have a purpose in life. Many folks go through life and never realize their purpose.. the aware fishermen have realized their life's purpose and may be the catalyst for eventual justice for the Dermond's and their family due to their discovery...

 

[MotherOcean]

So is anyone else also thinking that maybe now she wasn't killed until later? Since no one found her sooner? God I hope not, I just can't believe someone would do that to this poor elderly woman. I'm praying that she went the same time as her husband, and maybe they just didn't place her body until later...

I have thought from the beginning that she was taken to be held for some time. I can't figure out any other reason to take her at all. I think if she weren't taken to be held then both Mr. and Mrs. D were taken to be murdered away from the home but only Mr. D. was returned to the house.

 

[Nuvolari]

I wouldn't expect that the news photo of the tree tops in the lake are the actual snags where the corpse was found; that area is surely closed off.

On Google Earth the snags can be seen. Some appear quite large and there are places where many of them can be seen. The greater concentration is downstream near the Greene County side.

It's interesting to survey the shoreline on the Greene County side. I still can't think of a reason the corpse wouldn't be "dumped" as soon as possible after the crime.

 

[steelman]

Amazon will ship to a PO box if you use the US Postal Service for delivery. Also thieves/scammers often use drop boxes, like a UPS store or Mailbox Etc. They use fake ID's to obtain the drop boxes, or stolen identities. In organized groups of scammers they use unsuspecting victims to receive and reship packages for them.

That's all well and good. Sounds like the detectives need to do a little "detecting" and figure it out. That could be the big break in this case.

 

[Hickory Born]

I do not think they held her for a day or two, way too risky. I think she was killed at the same time Mr. D was killed and they moved her dead body down the hill to the boat dock. Which makes me feels for certain there was more than one person who committed this crime. It would have been difficult for one person (unless they were a bodybuilder) to carry dead weight of 148 lbs down that hill.

 

[ClaireNC]

That's all well and good. Sounds like the detectives need to do a little "detecting" and figure it out. That could be the big break in this case.

I don't think the credit card theft has anything to do with the murders.

 

[gngr~snap]

"Clobberd" ? : (

"But Putnam County Sheriff Sills said surveillance videos from around the lake might not provide the clue he needs to find the person who clobbered the 87-year-old woman in the head and identify the murder weapon, which was not a knife or gun."

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/20/310...ew-leads.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1#storylink=cpy

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[osu]

A source familiar with the investigation told The Telegraph that the body had been "placed” where it was found. The source did not elaborate.

Even so, the revelation indicates that Dermond’s corpse was not adrift and that authorities now have evidence of how her killer may have tried to hide her body.

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Xara]

So is anyone else also thinking that maybe now she wasn't killed until later? Since no one found her sooner? God I hope not, I just can't believe someone would do that to this poor elderly woman. I'm praying that she went the same time as her husband, and maybe they just didn't place her body until later...

According to the forensics guy that was on HLN yesterday, he seemed to think it was totally feasible that it took that long for the body to surface. Sorry I don't have a direct quote or link, maybe someone else remembers this? Perhaps the interview is up on their website? Something to do with the temp of the lake. He wasn't surprised at all that it took so long.

 

[Foxfire]

FYI-
BoardreaderWebsleuths - Hot Threads 3 weeks running... Awareness is the Key!

http://boardreader.com/fp/Websleuths_Crime_Sleuthing_Com_9288/Missing_Forum_Discussion_2026.html

The Shirley Dermond WS Thread #3 05/18/2014 > 30,000 Views - 164,000 Total Views/All Threads

 

[loveboxerkisses]

What a very nice compliment, loveboxerkisses. Thank you for the acknowledgement and kind words, I appreciated it greatly.

I see that you are new to WS so first let me welcome you :seeya:and you are going to find we have many posters who are very knowledgeable people who you will enjoy reading their posts as well.

It is very heartbreaking that this is the end of two beautiful lives who were living out they rest of their lives together just like they had done for 62 years.

We are living in scary times now with so many elderly being targeted when it comes to violent heinous crimes such as these. There was a point in time we never locked our doors and we always kept our firearms locked away inaccessible to us. For so long we too had the false sense of security but we have come to realize things like this can happen anywhere and everywhere even in supposedly very safe neighborhoods.

In fact it seems to me that murderers have now learn the places to target are places where little violent crime happens. LE does tell us that the criminals are getting smarter and smarter and it seems to be the case now.

This would be like murdering someone in Mayberry RFD where we had the false impression it could never happen in places like that but it can and it has and it will happen again.

Thanks again for all the sweet words. You are going to really like it here, I promise.

You're welcome! Im sorry I just seen this I am trying to figure out how to keep up with this thread from my phone! I'm finding it hard lol, yes you are right I remember growing up and in our neighborhood hardly anyone would lock their doors during the day if they ran to the store or just went somewhere I also remember there were people that would leave their car keys in the car and no one messed with it, do that now and it'll be gone! Times were so different back then though, you could let your kids go outside and play as long as they were home when the streetlights came on it was ok, you could walk places I remember even cutting through an orange grove by my house to go to a store on the corner and never felt scared! Not anymore can you do those things and don't even think about turning your back on your child someone may snatch them. Anyways hopefully something will turn up and this crime will be solved, it'll be interesting who this person/persons will be and the reasoning as to why. As always my prayers go out to the Dermond family and their friends and hoping they'll find the strength to get through this. Oh and yes I do like it here very much I can't say enough how everyones opinions make me stop and think and see a different light on this subject. I find myself obsessing over this case because I don't understand the sense of it = ( .

 

[Hexe]

A source familiar with the investigation told The Telegraph that the body had been "placed” where it was found. The source did not elaborate.

Even so, the revelation indicates that Dermond’s corpse was not adrift and that authorities now have evidence of how her killer may have tried to hide her body.

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html#storylink=cpy

Why the perp tried to hide Mrs. Dermond body, yet left her husband's headless corpse in a full view?

 

[osu]

In the Baffling Russell and Shirley Dermond Murder Case, Is Motive the Key To Solve It?
May 20th, 2014 10:26 EST

~snipped

It would have to be either money or revenge, but possibly a combination of both. One has to ask, what does the Dermond`s will look like? And what about their past lives and business dealings in New Jersey? The only new item I`ve heard mention of, is that Russell Dermond is a WWII veteran; won`t a hungry upstart of a news reporter dig a little deeper, into how he was able to build up a sizable empire of fast food restaurants?

Granted, this would be a difficult assignment, but is necessary, if we hope to get anywhere with finding out who did it. Sills says he doesn`t require the help of GBI, but is he sending detectives up to New Jersey? I suppose the regular FBI could be helpful in this regard, but the work of investigative journalists functions aptly as a check and balance to law enforcement (one fathoms).

More at link:http://thesop.org/story/20140520/in...urder-case-is-motive-the-key-to-solve-it.html

 

[1&2&3]

In the picture Dr. Watson posted, one can see a white truck parked in the background.

Would it be possible for the perps to have made access via this way with a canoe or kayak, or several if there were more than one, or if it was a younger group?

 

[osu]

In the picture Dr. Watson posted, one can see a white truck parked in the background.

Would it be possible for the perps to have made access via this way with a canoe or kayak, or several if there were more than one, or if it was a younger group?

I zoomed way in on the photo, but I'm not seeing a white truck in the background.

 

[mck16]

Is there a mod here or someone that can fix the blown margins. Thank you.

 

[Dr.Watson]

In the picture Dr. Watson posted, one can see a white truck parked in the background.

Would it be possible for the perps to have made access via this way with a canoe or kayak, or several if there were more than one, or if it was a younger group?

Here's the video link again where this came from - the still shot is pulled from around the 1:30 mark. I see what you mean about what may be a truck in the still, but looking at the video several times again, I'm not sure if it's just an aberration of the shadows. You have a good eye to have seen that! :eye:

If you look at google earth, this shoreline area is on a peninsula that is almost like an island - I couldn't see any roads past a certain point further north, but that doesn't mean they aren't there - it's very densely wooded...

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/investigators-rule-out-evidence-in-lake-oconee/vCbbRX/

 

[tlcya]

I remain convinced that Mrs. Dermond was dead either at the same time or shortly before or after her beloved husband and that her body was placed in the area it was found that very evening.

It makes zero sense to me that anyone would go back to the general vicinity of a murder/beheading/abduction investigation to place her there at a later time.

Add to that the sheriff spoke of decomp gases causing bodies to rise that were once submerged and I am pretty dang confident she was not "displayed" or purposefully hung from anything.

As to her resembling a buoy, when fisherman are in the water there are things such as choppiness caused by wind or other boat traffic, glare from sunlight glinting off the water and distance to consider.

When I am a boater familiar with an area of water, and I see something floating or bobbing in the water some distance off, I tend to think buoy or log, not dead body.

I do not think the fishermen were conveying that Mrs. D's body resembled a buoy up close, I believe this is a matter of horses vs zebras. When I hear hooves on a horse ranch I think horses not zebras. When in a boat approaching something in the distance floating on the water I think buoy, log, flotsam, not dead person. MOO IMO JMO

 

[Cbm]

Included here is the site map showing where the Dermonds lived and where Shirley was found. I think when they talk about her being "placed" there, it is in regards to the location. They might have said she was "dumped" there and it would have the same meaning. My guess would be that the perp was getting close to the location where he planned on exiting the lake. You can see by all the twist and turns along that waterway that it would have been almost impossible for her body to have just drifted along for over 5 miles without being sighted or snagged on something along the way.

The only question for me is whether he was planning on taking her out of there alive, or if the 5 mile long boat ride in the dark was just part of the terror factor. My thought is that he was going to exit with her, but she got to yelling and hollering and making a bunch of noise, or at least trying to, fighting back for the most part. We have no idea how many close calls there were during that trip, or if some neighbors actually looked towards the lake from their backyards or dock area when they heard strange sounds.

Hopefully she fought like a banshee rooster and put some scars on this guy in the process. I'm sure he had her tied or handcuffed and hooded, coward that he is.

I really hope there is some DNA under her fingernails!!!!