GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[oceanblueeyes]

Snipped by me for space

Your opinions and ideas are usually spot on! I just don't see this as a common theft that escalated into a double murder. It was too organized and planned to have started out as him thinking 'I need money for my habit so need to rob these old people tonight'.

Also, if the perp was on probation, his fingerprints would be on file.

Someone else commented upthread that perhaps Mr. D. saw some illegal transaction taking place at his dock. I doubt this also as Mr. D. would either immediately call the sheriff to report it and the sheriff would have a record of ithe call OR if he saw something and a person came back later, then once news of the murder hit the papers, there would be suspicions from the person in the other boat. Hmmm, guess that could be who called Sills? But they would need to tell on themself as to how they knew what went down.

Just my two cents as to what did not happen. Oh, by the way, pine straw is very hard to put back in place once disturbed! If my water hose scoots it up as I pull the hose along, I cannot get it put back smoothly or perfectly. So, it would be detected immediately if a body was dragged or pulled down the hill.

Ah, you make a good point about him being on probation but he still may have had a bad drug habit (there is always the caught and the uncaught) and needed to steal something in order to feed that drug habit. Especially if his own family had cut his money off recently due to them knowing he would just spend it on drugs.

In fact in my local area that did happen back in the late 80s when a 16 year old murdered both of his wealthy parents as they slept then tried to rape and murder his own sister but she survived. The reason he murdered them they had cut his money supply off. They had already had him in rehab several times. When he committed double homicide he had no criminal record before then. He is in prison for life and will die there.

It wouldn't be a common theft though not if it was being done by someone in the neighborhood that knew the Dermonds.

And I am still very convinced that the killer either lives there or has stayed there quite often and knows that area very well due to familiarity. That is one opinion that has never changed for me the entire time.

I have said time and time again (lol) that people can kill because they want their secret to remain a secret because if exposed it would drastically change their lives as they know and live it. I still think this is the case in this case and it would apply to anyone that knew the Dermonds and anyone who could be identified by them.

We really have no way of knowing if this was premeditated murder or not of Russ. If Shirley was killed next, then yes, that is very premeditated.

This very well may be a plan that was formed after the murders had happened concerning the disposal of the body evidence and that was what had planning to it.

So I am can't rule out that the murder of Russ could have occurred when he caught the suspect in a criminal act and that Shirley was murdered due to being an eye witness to the murder of her husband. At the very beginning I did think theses murders may have happened spontaneously or at least Russ'.

There have been armed robbers caught in the act before by the homeowners and they murdered the homeowners because they wanted no eye witnesses left behind so I simply cant disregard that it may have happened in this case as well. Imo, it is not a far fetched theory by any means especially if the robber knew he could be IDd by S&R.

Really? When we did use pine straw I often smoothed it down or rearranged the pine straw and it looked just like it did before something disturbed it. But on that part I do hope they did find drag marks through the pine straw.

Usually killers don't think of everything and often its something they failed to do or think about that gets them caught.



IMO

 

[charminglane]

Just catching up after a few days.
It is refreshing to read about a case for this long where everyone commenting is so civil to each other and respects each other's theories.

Niiiiiiiiiice!

 

[charminglane]

Was reading a blog today where someone once used a cast iron skillet as a boat anchor.
Thought it was interesting. It could be used to weigh down a body, too.

 

[gngr~snap]

Snipped by me for space

Your opinions and ideas are usually spot on! I just don't see this as a common theft that escalated into a double murder. It was too organized and planned to have started out as him thinking 'I need money for my habit so need to rob these old people tonight'.

Also, if the perp was on probation, his fingerprints would be on file.

Someone else commented upthread that perhaps Mr. D. saw some illegal transaction taking place at his dock. I doubt this also as Mr. D. would either immediately call the sheriff to report it and the sheriff would have a record of ithe call OR if he saw something and a person came back later, then once news of the murder hit the papers, there would be suspicions from the person in the other boat. Hmmm, guess that could be who called Sills? But they would need to tell on themself as to how they knew what went down.

Just my two cents as to what did not happen. Oh, by the way, pine straw is very hard to put back in place once disturbed! If my water hose scoots it up as I pull the hose along, I cannot get it put back smoothly or perfectly. So, it would be detected immediately if a body was dragged or pulled down the hill.

I didn't realize how steep the hill is that is covered in pinestraw! (at least what I can see) Maybe it just looks steeper in pictures than it actually is.
I also wondered if they had a walkway or concrete like sidewalk that led part of the way onto the property. In some photos it looks like they did , but in others I don't see it.

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[Happyshoes]

Just checking in one last time for the weekend. I am pretty much stuck on the idea that someone was there to steal, or to ask Mr. D when he was going to sell him that (????). Maybe something worth $$ (like was Mr. D a collector of any kind?). So they possibly knew each other just in that way. Sills seems to think this killer was smart enough to take Mr. D's head to hide evidence and to place (?) Mrs. D in the lake so she wouldn't be found. Is that planned or just crazy last minute thinking? I do think they have some good leads, just hope they are rushing the forensics. Staying hopeful...

 

[mck16]

Ah, you make a good point about him being on probation but he still may have had a bad drug habit (there is always the caught and the uncaught) and needed to steal something in order to feed that drug habit. Especially if his own family had cut his money off recently due to them knowing he would just spend it on drugs.

In fact in my local area that did happen back in the late 80s when a 16 year old murdered both of his wealthy parents as they slept then tried to rape and murder his own sister but she survived. The reason he murdered them they had cut his money supply off. They had already had him in rehab several times. When he committed double homicide he had no criminal record before then. He is in prison for life and will die there.

It wouldn't be a common theft though not if it was being done by someone in the neighborhood that knew the Dermonds.

And I am still very convinced that the killer either lives there or has stayed there quite often and knows that area very well due to familiarity. That is one opinion that has never changed for me the entire time.

I have said time and time again (lol) that people can kill because they want their secret to remain a secret because if exposed it would drastically change their lives as they know and live it. I still think this is the case in this case and it would apply to anyone that knew the Dermonds and anyone who could be identified by them.

We really have no way of knowing if this was premeditated murder or not of Russ. If Shirley was killed next, then yes, that is very premeditated.

This very well may be a plan that was formed after the murders had happened concerning the disposal of the body evidence and that was what had planning to it.

So I am can't rule out that the murder of Russ could have occurred when he caught the suspect in a criminal act and that Shirley was murdered due to being an eye witness to the murder of her husband. At the very beginning I did think theses murders may have happened spontaneously or at least Russ'.

There have been armed robbers caught in the act before by the homeowners and they murdered the homeowners because they wanted no eye witnesses left behind so I simply cant disregard that it may have happened in this case as well. Imo, it is not a far fetched theory by any means especially if the robber knew he could be IDd by S&R.

Really? When we did use pine straw I often smoothed it down or rearranged the pine straw and it looked just like it did before something disturbed it. But on that part I do hope they did find drag marks through the pine straw.

Usually killers don't think of everything and it often it something they failed to do or think about that gets them caught.



IMO

I think there could be the possibility to that Shirley was hit in the head and while the perp was doing his damage to Russ she died from the blow. The perp then had to dispose of her body not wanting to do the same to Shirley as he did to Russ. Just a new thought.

 

[tlcya]

I didn't realize how steep the hill is that is covered in pinestraw! (at least what I can see) Maybe it just looks steeper in pictures than it actually is.
I also wondered if they had a walkway or concrete like sidewalk that led part of the way onto the property. In some photos it looks like they did , but in others I don't see it.

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

thanks gngr

borrowed your photo and I see what you mean. I sort of isolated what to me appears to be a walkway that has graduated straight sidewalk with some steps then more walkway. too hard to tell for sure but I am thinking there was a paved walkway leading down to the dock area.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I didn't realize how steep the hill is that is covered in pinestraw! (at least what I can see) Maybe it just looks steeper in pictures than it actually is.
I also wondered if they had a walkway or concrete like sidewalk that led part of the way onto the property. In some photos it looks like they did , but in others I don't see it.

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

It intrigues me how close the back of the house is down to the water's edge. Do people usually put their home that close to the water? Never mind, I guess they do, and want to be able to see the water from the windows/porches of their home.

Since the backyard is sloping down to the water's edge this would give the killer an advantage while bringing Shirley's body down to the boat. IMO If it had been the other way around he would have had much more of a struggle to get it up a hill than down one.

One of our daughter's home is on a large creek. Her home is two story like this one and has a huge covered top deck that goes all the way across the back of their house. I think they built theirs about a 100 feet or more from the water. I don't think the zoning and planning committee will let them build that close due to possible flooding. Their land also slopes down to the water's edge in the back like the Dermonds. Its so breathtaking to sit out on the deck and lookout over the peaceful water.

It saddens me so much to see the Dermond's beautiful home sitting empty now.

They should have been able to live out the rest of their golden years together rather than be murdered together.

 

[tomkat]

I am trying to figure out if Russell was killed in the garage "of the home" or in the home, then placed in the garage. Sheriff Sills mentioned Russell was moved a couple of feet.
I am wondering how and why the perp and Russell would be in the garage in the first place, and with the front door being found unlocked, the perp could have been let in through the front, then what did occur precisely when, and if this was premeditated, then that is a reason for "why kill him", it wouldn't matter what room he was in, unless it meant more of a security that Shirley could not hear Russell being attacked/murdered......
Lots of questions....
IMOO.

I had pondered that too, also posted something similar, that someoen came to the front door, reason it being unlocked and ultimately RD found in garage as if he led someone into the garage for some reason or he led them thinking they were "ok"

I have gone thru several scenarios and reasons as everyone here has but why the font door unlocked if they were "religious" about keeping doors locked and security system on (if only at night) per their son

It may be likely that someone did want him away from SD who may have been upstairs or even just in view, especially if just one perp, she would have been an interference at the point of attack

I just don't know if I have anything in my mind that I can be loyal too as far as what happened, so many thoughts

But the door unlocked and the beheading, those two thougths never leave me

GOd I hope we hear SOEMTHING Monday !

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Just checking in one last time for the weekend. I am pretty much stuck on the idea that someone was there to steal, or to ask Mr. D when he was going to sell him that (????). Maybe something worth $$ (like was Mr. D a collector of any kind?). So they possibly knew each other just in that way. Sills seems to think this killer was smart enough to take Mr. D's head to hide evidence and to place (?) Mrs. D in the lake so she wouldn't be found. Is that planned or just crazy last minute thinking? I do think they have some good leads, just hope they are rushing the forensics. Staying hopeful...

That is also another opinion that I have held from the beginning and I still feel very comfortable with it.

It just boils down to good old commonsense and logic, imo.

Anyone that goes to all of this trouble and risks to hide body evidence is attached to the victims in some manner even if not closely.

It is someone, that if he were known, everyone would know........he knew the Dermonds. That is why I don't think it was a stranger that came by to look at something wanting to buy it or talk Russ into selling it.

Had he killed them both and left them laying there then I could see possibly a stranger doing this but I don't know why in the heck they would do it.

He was in a self preservation protective mode when he disposed of Shirley and Russ' head. He was trying his best not to be linked to the crimes because imo he knows them, and they knew him, and others would know he knew them too.

IMO

 

[Hickory Born]

I would like to hear something tomorrow regarding the "plausible, big IF" theory. News media...please ask.

 

[fred&edna]

I've been re-reading a couple of news reports, and in one of them the sheriff has fundamentally ruled out cults, mafia, and drug-crazed individuals. He also tells us that there were likely two perps who were (at least minimally) known to the victims, and they accessed the home by boat.

And, the most puzzling thing (besides the strangeness of the crime itself) is...

""There’s conflicting signs that the killings were the work of professionals. “For everything that looks professional, there’s something that isn’t,” Sills said."

So imo, the BIG question is... What type of killer would try to make a crime "APPEAR" to be the work of professionals??




http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/murdered-elderly-couple-sheriff-says-victims-likel/nf4Tg/

 

[atthelake]

Pine needles are the same thing to what this Georgia girl calls pinestraw. I buy bales and bales of pinestraw to cover bare spots in my flower gardens. Some people used pinebark mulch, but i like the look of pinestraw.

To me, it looks like the brownish yard area is covered with pinestraw. I might be wrong.

PS you will get a kick out of this. I had a wealthy widow living nextdoor and she would borrow a pickup truck and drive up and down the street raking up fresh pineneedles for her flower beds. She said they looked better than the old needles that were packed in bales at the garden center.

My azaleas love the pinestraw from my neighbours trees ... Yet I absolutely #%%&/ cleaning the pinestraw outta my gutters

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[gngr~snap]

thanks gngr

borrowed your photo and I see what you mean. I sort of isolated what to me appears to be a walkway that has graduated straight sidewalk with some steps then more walkway. too hard to tell for sure but I am thinking there was a paved walkway leading down to the dock area.

Thank you!
Found it!
1:25 min into this video it looks like a sidewalk between two sets of steps.

Authorities Scour Lake for Clues in Murder and Ab…: http://youtu.be/ZDsgTk5RmI0

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[charminglane]

Is the house accessible from the garage? Like a door leading from garage directly into the house?
I ask this because my 75/80 year old parents lock their house like Fort Knox, too. The only way the front door would be left unlocked would be if they were working in the front yard or went out into the garage, which is only accessible from outside the home in a covered area.
The alarm is set at night and whenever they leave for anything.
Why, I don't know. Their hearing is so bad they don't even hear the dang thing!
Actually, maybe the Dermond's hearing wasn't great either and they were sitting ducks.

 

[atthelake]

Hope this pic shows up.

My latest thoughts (seems I have different ones every day). Will some men please chime-in on this. How would you get a dead body weighting 158 lbs down to the river by yourself?

Would you drag them down the sidewalk and steps? Would you thrown them over your shoulder and be able to walk down the sidewalk and steps?

Would you either drag or shoulder carry them down through the pinestraw?

Would your boat be at the dock or over near the sea wall?

I don't think one person could have done this alone without leaving a bunch of evidence.

My gender and age.. I can hardly take a cooler down concrete steps atthelake. That is why I discount folks saying that Mr. D was first attacked atthelake and pulled back up to the garage. Even with two folks...just doesn't click with me to carry him up from the dock. ESPECIALLY now that I have seen the incline. Walking up concrete steps WITHOUT a handrail...or walking through all that pinestraw which you :moo: would SLIP ON!!... SMH... Mr. wasn't carried uphill. Perhaps across the property outside the house...but not up from the dock. :moo:

 

[tlcya]

I've been re-reading a couple of news reports, and in one of them the sheriff has fundamentally ruled out cults, mafia, and drug-crazed individuals. He also tells us that there were likely two perps who were (at least minimally) known to the victims, and they accessed the home by boat.

And, the most puzzling thing (besides the strangeness of the crime itself) is...

""There’s conflicting signs that the killings were the work of professionals. “For everything that looks professional, there’s something that isn’t,” Sills said."

So imo, the BIG question is... What type of killer would try to make a crime "APPEAR" to be the work of professionals??




http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/murdered-elderly-couple-sheriff-says-victims-likel/nf4Tg/

MOO amateur hoodlums

 

[tomkat]

i would like to hear something tomorrow regarding the "plausible, big if" theory. News media...please ask.

ditto !

 

[tomkat]

I've been re-reading a couple of news reports, and in one of them the sheriff has fundamentally ruled out cults, mafia, and drug-crazed individuals. He also tells us that there were likely two perps who were (at least minimally) known to the victims, and they accessed the home by boat.

And, the most puzzling thing (besides the strangeness of the crime itself) is...

""There’s conflicting signs that the killings were the work of professionals. “For everything that looks professional, there’s something that isn’t,” Sills said."

So imo, the BIG question is... What type of killer would try to make a crime "APPEAR" to be the work of professionals??




http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/murdered-elderly-couple-sheriff-says-victims-likel/nf4Tg/

THE.......million dollar question AND a VERY good one ! Something very good to think on, clearly if it was to APPEAR professional tho, someone who clearly wanted to CONFUSE THE INVESTIGATION


STILL..............WHO?

Who would be so crazed and yet NOT EVER WANT to be discovered?

 

[atthelake]

Copperheads blend in real well so be careful. Also, there is a rattler that likes them too, but I have never come across one.

Scorpions are dreadful creatures. They love water meters, etc. Their sting is bad. I am feeling your pain mck16. :seeya:

It STOOD OUT AND I SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER :tantrum: (well, this southern belle said *rated R* words for sure until some men killed the thang!!!) :loveyou: southern macho men saving this damsel in distress! I had much more colorful language than Scarlett though...kill the @#%#% snake...