GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[atthelake]

I remember that also. Reported both had head trauma how can LE know there were two different weapons when they haven't found the missing head to compare the wounds. Maybe I've missed something. Jmo

ciao

Perhaps this is a time to use the bat signal to invite JoyPath to this thread... I'll send it up!

:ufo:

 

[Solitaryone]

Like someone on this thread posted earlier today, I wonder if LE found Mr. Dermond's head? If so, maybe they are keeping quiet about it. I think that whoever did this was very close to the Dermond's, and I think Sheriff Sills has a very good idea who it is, but needs more evidence to make an arrest. I hope something breaks soon!

 

[Hickory Born]

Is it strange to have only 2 of 3 children co-executors? I have 3 kids and I'd never chose to appoint 2, I'd either pick one or all.

Maybe the daughter didn't want to be an executrix. After being co-executor for two estates and then the single executor for a final estate, I give advice to all my friends...." You don't want to be executor of anyone's will, too much work!"

Please let me add, since the two brothers live in the same town and the sister lives in a different state, it would be easier logistically. When your have co-executors, both people have to sign all documents and it is a pain in the butt getting this done.

 

[Bootsctr]

Like someone on this thread posted earlier today, I wonder if LE found Mr. Dermond's head? If so, maybe they are keeping quiet about it. I think that whoever did this was very close to the Dermond's, and I think Sheriff Sills has a very good idea who it is, but needs more evidence to make an arrest. I hope something breaks soon!

I think they did find the head. I think Sheriff Sills has the killer trapped at GW/RP. They can't leave by boat and they can't leave by car or foot. I hope something breaks soon because I'm about to BUST!

 

[1&2&3]

My thoughts on the sons being the executors are they were the ones that had been in on the business dealings for years with their father, and they are knowledgeable about it all. The daughter had her own life and the franchise business was not an interest to her.

Everything is spelled out in the will as to how the estate will be divided, so it is all just a formality. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Actually a lot of people are now questioning why the family is not contributing money for a reward. It's all over SMS.

Now I wonder if Sills set it up that way?

I think he has a little bit but nothing to make an arrest and actually nothing to point to anybody in particular.

I still wonder why he was so silent for those 8 days an is now once again giving daily bits and pieces of the investigation?

I don't know his style but he sure is different!

I hope he finds this killer. This is a really bad one!

He may be different from the Sheriffs in your state but if you come from Georgia he isn't different at all.

It doesn't matter what is being chattered about on SMS concerning the children. What matters is Sills has never even hinted they have any involvement at all in their aging parents' murders. Here at WS they are considered off limits since they have never been named even a POI much less suspects. They are considered grieving family members here who have lost both of their parents to a murderer in the most painful way possible.

Its obvious that Sills really knows rewards like this rarely if ever works. He has been a law enforcement officer for 40 years and he said this is the first time he has gone with a reward.

Here is a link to a lawyer who has researched many many criminals cases that have had a high reward attached to them that have never been collected and he says rewards like this don't work because often the only one that knows anything is the killer themselves.

http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/does-offering-rewards-to-solve-crimes-pay-off.html

He also said when family members put up reward money they do so because this is a way to hide their own involvement in the crimes.

Do you know no one ever came forward to collect the 27 MILLION dollars that Osama Bin Laden had on his head for years before he was finally killed by the Navy Seals even though many knew exactly where he was?

I have never ever believed the family has any involvement in these murders neither done by themselves or them hiring a hit man.

The way the murderer carried out these crimes are totally counterproductive for family members who murder for financial gain. That is why I excluded them very early on.

JMO

 

[atthelake]

so the fishermen claimed the $20 if it was "to lead to the location or finding of SD" ?? I dont' recall it being to lead to a conviction, the reward came out in regards to finding SD I think

iirc the terminology was and/or (finding/conviction). So my understanding upon reading it was that it had to lead to conviction... but I'm not a legal beagle :dog: <<--- come on! I thought that was a smilie lol

 

[Bootsctr]

iirc the terminology was and/or (finding/conviction). So my understanding upon reading it was that it had to lead to conviction... but I'm not a legal beagle :dog: <<--- come on! I thought that was a smilie lol

:beagle: : beagle :

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The female child.

ETA: late in my response. Already mentioned.

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It doesn't matter if you were late east2west.

I appreciate all who answered my question including you.

Thank you.

 

[Bethanthony]

I think the request for reward money is multi faceted.

It gets (already has if you count comments on MSM FB pages) people talking; friends, associates, family as well as the community in general. Talking provides a catalyst to jog the memory about what they have seen, heard and suspect.
It draws attention from the media. It also could provide LE with additional information by giving them another list of names to look at, both as those who donated and those who didn’t, and may give them information to allow them to pursue connections that they might otherwise not know about.

I also think the use of the word “hoodlums” is being used to elicit a specific response, but without truly knowing what LE does know, it’s difficult to speculate on what that is.
As others have already said it could be to insult the perp into making a mistake.
It could also give someone who may want to protect their own reputation from being damaged a reason to dissociate themselves with someone who may be thought of in that manor, which could lead to a change in behavior that will attract attention, leading to newfound information.
It could also be to get the local community talking about who “fits” the description of a hoodlum based on their interpretation of the word, and LE may hear about someone’s propensity for certain behaviors that would not otherwise be discussed.

The newly released information about LE having fingerprints, hairs, fibers and other forensic evidence is, in my opinion, to make the perp extremely anxious. Anxious behavior will stand out to those around them.

The release of the information about two different weapons, and the fact that LE thinks that SD’s body was not planned to be found, and especially the fact that they went back to the house for another look see is possibly to cause the perp to actually react.
That reaction could be one of many different things; dispose of the murder weapon(s), or try to put it back. Maybe move the head or check to see it has been found. Move, sell something, close a bank account, etc. Do something that will cause a big enough stir or even to entice them to ask some questions that only the perp would think about. Anything that may draw LE attention as odd or out of the ordinary.
Basically my thoughts are pretty much the same as what many have already commented on.

Source: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclu...couple-/ngDzD/

Good point! I was thinking the search of the Dermond house this morning was totally pointless. If LE had turned the property back over to the family, no new evidence today would hold up in court because of contamination of the crime scene (surely the family had the house cleaned when they came for the funeral). It makes sense that it may have been staged to create anxiety in a person of interest.

So, unless LE has a head (so they know what the murder weapon was), then is it safe to assume RD was shot? To know for certain the murder weapons, without a head, LE must have found trace amounts of gunshot residue on RD. They never said he WASNT shot, they just said they found no exit bullets or corresponding blood spatter. But they also said they didn't think he was murdered in the house or garage anyway so perhaps that's why there was no bullet shell/casing etc. LE also stated there was no trauma anywhere else on his body. Again, RD would most likely have bruising on his hands at least (defensively guarding or holding his head) if he died of blunt force trauma. But, nothing. If he was shot, it would also explain the decapitation, as the overriding theory on WS and to Sills is that it was done in an attempt to hide evidence.

I can follow it all up to this point. If this were so well planned out, two people at least to commit the crimes, what idiot makes such a huge blunder in the commission of shooting their victim that, after they kill him and go undetected, they kill his wife, quietly boat FIVE miles out, weigh her down, maybe even tie her underwater to a tree, probably all done in pitch dark, and then all of the sudden realize they shot the wrong gun?!? Whoops! I better run back and 'remove' those bullets that will implicate me! This is the part that trips me up and makes me doubt the whole chain of thought....

 

[Hickory Born]

I do not believe the Dermond home is the original murder scene for either victim. Even when murderers try their best to clean up a scene it really isn't doable. There are just so many things that can soak up blood or cracks it can seep down into. Bludgeonings leave some of the bloodiest crime scene there are and for it to entail two bludgeoning victims massive blood would be there.

I think Sills was fully expecting to walk in the Dermonds home and find the original murder scene. It did not happen...nothing was out of place nor disturbed. So I don't think the killer ever entered the Dermond home.

Imo, he knew their daily habits/routine and came up on the backside of their property when they were both outside as it was getting dark. He either lured using a fake reason to come with him or forced them at gunpoint to go to his home. A lot of the homes in this area have basements. I think he murdered them there. I would expect his property to be similar to the Dermond property on the backside which is only 50 feet from the water's edge. Imo, he does have a boat and his own dock.

I think he dragged Shirley's body maybe on a tarp the 50 feet to his boat and loaded her and Russ's head in to the boat and he knew the water there like the back of his hand and he knew how to navigate at night to get out in the deeper waters.

I think before he left in his boat he took Russ's torso and left it in the garage. He did want everyone to know Russ had been murdered but the more I think about it he wanted to set it up like Shirley was really the suspect and that is why he discarded her so she would be classified as 'missing'. Sills would have no way to absolutely rule Shirley out with 100% certainty as long as she remained 'missing.' He had no way of ever knowing she would surface on her own. Anyone that goes to all this effort and great risk totally believes the victim is going to stay a prisoner of the water forever or they wouldn't have gone through all of this trouble in the first place.

JMO of course

How did he get Mr & Mrs. D to his home...by boat, by walking, by their own car, by his car?

 

[Bethanthony]

Is she the youngest child Bootsie?

Sometimes they will select the two older children who they think are more than capable of executing the will.

Since it seems the boys are more business minded I don't find this odd at all.

IMO

IMO, I think it's really weird. I have a business degree and yet my sister is the executor of my father's will. It is because she is the eldest, plain and simple.

The only reason I can think of is that RD still has a share in the family business, even though he is retired. In that case, as business partners, it would make sense for the boys to be co-executors.

Especially if the person left out is in the business of law...

 

[Litig8ter]

I do not believe the Dermond home is the original murder scene for either victim. Even when murderers try their best to clean up a scene it really isn't doable. There are just so many things that can soak up blood or cracks it can seep down into. Bludgeonings leave some of the bloodiest crime scene there are and for it to entail two bludgeoning victims massive blood would be there.

I think Sills was fully expecting to walk in the Dermonds home and find the original murder scene. It did not happen...nothing was out of place nor disturbed. So I don't think the killer ever entered the Dermond home.

Imo, he knew their daily habits/routine and came up on the backside of their property when they were both outside as it was getting dark. He either lured using a fake reason to come with him or forced them at gunpoint to go to his home. A lot of the homes in this area have basements. I think he murdered them there. I would expect his property to be similar to the Dermond property on the backside which is only 50 feet from the water's edge. Imo, he does have a boat and his own dock.

I think he dragged Shirley's body maybe on a tarp the 50 feet to his boat and loaded her and Russ's head in to the boat and he knew the water there like the back of his hand and he knew how to navigate at night to get out in the deeper waters.

I think before he left in his boat he took Russ's torso and left it in the garage. He did want everyone to know Russ had been murdered but the more I think about it he wanted to set it up like Shirley was really the suspect and that is why he discarded her so she would be classified as 'missing'. Sills would have no way to absolutely rule Shirley out with 100% certainty as long as she remained 'missing.' He had no way of ever knowing she would surface on her own. Anyone that goes to all this effort and great risk totally believes the victim is going to stay a prisoner of the water forever or they wouldn't have gone through all of this trouble in the first place.

JMO of course

I tend to agree that this theory is very sound based on what we have been told by Sills and others. Here are my thoughts.

First, as long as there is no rain or fog, navigating a boat at night is not hard if you have a spot light, which most boats owned by a GW resident would. Of course he would have his running lights on too to look normal. An add-on trolling motor would let him approach docks very silently.

Next, I think it's just as plausible that RD was lured away and killed, beheaded, taken to the garage, and SD was worried to death, heard noises in the garage, and ended up dead. Maybe the beheading was to inflict utmost horror upon her when she discovered the body later.

But regardless of which possibility, how did he get RD's body to the garage? I understand he weighed what he weighed and discount the dead weight idea. Was it by his boat and he drug HIM in the tarp up to the garage?

I also like the idea the killer had medical training and knew the techniques of body carriage as well as basic anatomy.

JMO

 

[east2west]

Could a boat engine decapitate an individual?

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[oceanblueeyes]

Good point! I was thinking the search of the Dermond house this morning was totally pointless. If LE had turned the property back over to the family, no new evidence today would hold up in court because of contamination of the crime scene (surely the family had the house cleaned when they came for the funeral). It makes sense that it may have been staged to create anxiety in a person of interest.

So, unless LE has a head (so they know what the murder weapon was), then is it safe to assume RD was shot? To know for certain the murder weapons, without a head, LE must have found trace amounts of gunshot residue on RD. They never said he WASNT shot, they just said they found no exit bullets or corresponding blood spatter. But they also said they didn't think he was murdered in the house or garage anyway so perhaps that's why there was no bullet shell/casing etc. LE also stated there was no trauma anywhere else on his body. Again, RD would most likely have bruising on his hands at least (defensively guarding or holding his head) if he died of blunt force trauma. But, nothing. If he was shot, it would also explain the decapitation, as the overriding theory on WS and to Sills is that it was done in an attempt to hide evidence.

I can follow it all up to this point. If this were so well planned out, two people at least to commit the crimes, what idiot makes such a huge blunder in the commission of shooting their victim that, after they kill him and go undetected, they kill his wife, quietly boat FIVE miles out, weigh her down, maybe even tie her underwater to a tree, probably all done in pitch dark, and then all of the sudden realize they shot the wrong gun?!? Whoops! I better run back and 'remove' those bullets that will implicate me! This is the part that trips me up and makes me doubt the whole chain of thought....

What blunder did the killer make? He seems so far to have gotten away with these crimes.

I really don't think he was shot. I think he was bludgeoned with a different weapon that Shirley was bludgeoned with. It makes no sense that he would take a chance of a gunshot being fired/heard and then use a bludgeoning weapon on Shirley. It he was going to take that risk of using a gun in the first place he would have shot them both and be done with it.

I think after the murderer murdered Russ he saw clearly that it had made an pattern impression on his scalp and skull which would ID the weapon used. A very unique weapon that he used to bludgeon Russ imo and not something that everyone has. But the main reason why he took the head and Shirley is he wanted others to think Shirley was the 'missing' suspect and had murdered Russ herself imo.

Taking the head to hide a bullet doesn't make sense to me. Bullets don't tell the police who the murder is. Its just a bullet of some caliber..it doesn't ID the gun used and in Georgia all sorts of guns are purchased from the same manufacturers and also bullets are sold to individuals that likes one big name brand over the other one. So for example lets say it was a .38 with a hollow point bullet. Well many thousands of gun owners in Georgia have that same weapon and use the same bullets.

So finding a bullet would put them no closer to knowing who the murder is. It would just remain a bullet until and if they ever found the weapon used so striation bullet marking testing could identify the bullet to the weapon he used. They must have the weapon first to even do a comparison ...until then it would just be a bullet and nothing more.

He didn't have to have any defensive wounds. One blow to the head has been known to kill someone instantly and if they weren't killed instantly they were totally stunned and thrown into unconsciousness from the forceful blow that rocks the brain.

I don't think there were 2 killers. I think one lone killer could have easily done all of this right by themselves. We have seen countless cases where one lone perpetrator was able to murder multiple people even up to 6 or 8 by bludgeoning them all to death.

 

[lakeoconee]

a number of helicopters in the area tonight.

 

[atthelake]

Interesting. There aren't that many people these days who don't have their fingerprints on file.

In Georgia, I think I had to give a thumbprint for my DL...but if you are not in government job/bonded/financial/jail/prison/to get a carry permit.... who else has their prints on file as a regular SOP for their position?

TIA

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Could a boat engine decapitate an individual?

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You mean the propellers on a boat motor?

Maybe but since there are multiple blades (propellers) on a motor it would leave that pattern on the neck. Since each of the propellers are quite curved it wouldn't leave a clean cut imo.

The ME would know if a propeller had hit Russ. Unfortunately people in Georgia have been hit by propellers and killed accidentally before.

IMO

 

[mrsobrien]

If there was much effort made to remove evidence of a gunshot, I think the shooter knew his (assuming male) gun was traceable. It must be legally registered in his name. Sounds like a place to start.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

a number of helicopters in the area tonight.

Wow thanks for the update.

Let us know if there is more activity please.

I would like more than anything for them to know who did this and are now taking photos of the property.