GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[Litig8ter]

The inmarsat pings are/were a red herring. The plane crashed close to last radar contact where there are two or more plausible eyewitnesses. Sailor, drilling rig operator, fisherman.

There also is seismic data and underwater sound sensor data suggesting impact far further nirth than the current s3arch area. Then you have a sighting in maldives as well as a recovered fire bottle. Yes a fire bottle, not some diving apparatus.

For the theories of an ex-NSA guy, check out http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/flight370condensed.html

 

[tomkat]

Boats and piers are a whole lot of work and I am sure the Dermonds gave that up long ago.

Up North we put our piers in in the Spring and take them out in the Winter.

I don't know if they do that in GA?

There are pier services that will come and do that job for you but they are expensive and not real reliable. One year they put our pier in...finally...in June and in July it collapsed!

I think in late 80's their water days were pretty much behind them. The boat in the picture might be one they kept for their family when they came to visit and it could also be somebody else's.

When was that picture taken of the boat at the Dermond's pier..anybody know?

I do not believe either Mr or Mrs Dermond would be using that little tippy boat.

I'm GUESSING that the type the D's have are less expensive as opposed to the stick built big ole boathouses, actually I was surprised GW would even allow one as we have restrictions on boat houses on Sinclair, maximum sizes, the D's type is allowed, but dont see too many, our neighbors has had theirs for 10 years or more, recently lost the fabric to severe winds and weather but other than that held up nicely, and also restrictions on how close to the shore, no more boat ramps off your own property like they used to allow eyars ago, those in existence are grandfathered in, some have cabins over the top over the water, would love one of those

never seen one at sinclair brought in to rent and removed for the season tho


anyhoooo

 

[tomkat]

Quick question:

Do we know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Mrs. D was weighted down or did we come to that conclusion based on cryptic statements by Sills, body position, and when her body surfaced?

Thanks in advance. :seeya:

yeah , I've been wondering if that was a definite or not too

thanks!

 

[tlcya]

I think the biggest contributing factor to the weight debate was that it was so long before the body was located and many thought with that channel being a relatively well traveled one why was it two weeks before the body was discovered there if it was not weighted down. What followed was several threads of debate and we never really got a definitive answer via official statements so we are still left wondering.

we can surmise that she was submerged or it is suspected she was submerged based on teh sheriff making statements regarding natural decomp processes bringing bodies to surface. But can't know if the body was there on the surface and simply undiscovered for a while or if it was weighted down and then eventually that weight was dislodged through decomp and then the corpse rose.

Thankfully I think the debate over whether she was "posed" has ended. Placed and posed are two entirely different things in my mind. No evidence ever released suggested posed IMO

 

[tlcya]

don't even get me started on the sweet gum balls - oy

 

[Treelights]

Yeah I had inquired about that too, maybe RD was selling something or likeyou said

but then why kill him?

I am trying to figure out if Russell was killed in the garage "of the home" or in the home, then placed in the garage. Sheriff Sills mentioned Russell was moved a couple of feet.
I am wondering how and why the perp and Russell would be in the garage in the first place, and with the front door being found unlocked, the perp could have been let in through the front, then what did occur precisely when, and if this was premeditated, then that is a reason for "why kill him", it wouldn't matter what room he was in, unless it meant more of a security that Shirley could not hear Russell being attacked/murdered......
Lots of questions....
IMOO.

 

[tlcya]

I wonder if Russel was outdoors to the back of the residence (lake view) and saw something that he then hustled toward the house to report. Seeing someone following him he made haste for the garage hoping to lock himself in and the perp(s) out.

Perp(s) manage to corner him in or very near to the garage and he is killed, dragged into the position he is found and beheaded. At some point Shirley from inside the house hears something in the garage which catches her attention and she is taken captive as insurance while perp(s) make getaway back toward boat. Once on the water and well away from the Dermond residence Shilrey became a liability rather than insurance and she was summarily struck over the head and then dumped overboard in the channel near to where she eventually surfaced and was found.

 

[2Hope4]

Me too. Can't give the stuff away! I have a book on weaving baskets with pine needles which are gorgeous, but I haven't attempted to weave it. The straw can be dyed too.

I bet those are beautiful! Never seen a pine woven basket, and when I read this post, all I could think of was bird's nest, with the needles and horse hair neatly woven together to make a really sturdy nest.

if transporting a body from the house to the water I might roll it rather than drag it. Let the slope help with the hard work.

I was thinking the same thing. BUT, if rolled down the hill, or dragged down, or even walked down, the dogs should have picked up a scent. Maybe they did, and it just hasn't been reported.

Pine straw looks much different than what we call pine needles in NY.

Difference in pine trees produces different needles.

I am trying to figure out if Russell was killed in the garage "of the home" or in the home, then placed in the garage. Sheriff Sills mentioned Russell was moved a couple of feet.
I am wondering how and why the perp and Russell would be in the garage in the first place, and with the front door being found unlocked, the perp could have been let in through the front, then what did occur precisely when, and if this was premeditated, then that is a reason for "why kill him", it wouldn't matter what room he was in, unless it meant more of a security that Shirley could not hear Russell being attacked/murdered......
Lots of questions....
IMOO.

Still sticking with the thought the the Dermonds KNEW the perps, maybe saw them while walking, knew from golfing, works at one of the diners there, church related, family friend, or friend of a friend. Maybe just from social gatherings. Maybe did work for them on the property. Not sure HOW, but I still feel the Dermonds did know the perps.

Thought I had another post quoted but not seeing it here now...at any rate, was talking about blood splatter...if Mr. Dermond was strangled or suffocated before beheaded, there wouldn't be blood splatter.

 

[Nuvolari]

we have no evidence that the body of Mrs. D was weighted down. Only that the sheriff said she was placed where she was found and that he answered one reporter's question during the presser he gave after finding her body about bodies being submerged and natural decomp causing them to fill with gasses and rise to the surface.

The rest has been supposition by sleuths trying to discern the meaning behind those statements.

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Y-6UFV_jI

Above link to press meeting when Mrs. Dermond’s body found. A noteworthy statement is Sills responding to a question by a newsperson at 2’50” regarding why the body might have been found at that location, and in his response he used the words, “…or at least to that vicinity”. Just before the end of the meeting Sills is asked if the body could have floated to the location and his reply is, “I don’t think so…,” (because of the distance, he says) which seems to indicate it could have, but he just doesn’t think so, meaning it wasn’t tethered. He made no declarative statement that the body was not weighted, though unless the weight was so heavy no ordinary person could have managed it without difficulty, the corpse would still have risen though it would have taken additional time of decomposition to increase the corpse volume in order to lift the weight.

If Mrs. Dermond's body was in the water the night of Friday the 2nd, 14 days elapsed before the corpse was discovered. The lake was searched for those two weeks but was discovered by fishermen. It is certainly conceivable that the searchers simply missed seeing the corpse, which is somewhat embarrassing for them, but it may not yet have risen enough to be spotted as it was by the fishermen.

So it seems possible for the corpse to have been placed elsewhere, possibly far upstream, weighted. It also seems possible that the corpse was placed somewhere unknown in the lake at some time after the 2nd. The issue of weighted or not may depend more on the sharp eyes of searchers considering the possible circumstances.

 

[tlcya]

Thought I had another post quoted but not seeing it here now...at any rate, was talking about blood splatter...if Mr. Dermond was strangled or suffocated before beheaded, there wouldn't be blood splatter.

RSBM on the blood spatter or presume lack thereof, good thought about strangulation. That would be a separate weapon for sure either by hand or device. Might also explain how Sills is so convinced that there were two different murder weapons. Perhaps strangulation marks on the neck area that remained after the beheading. If I remember right the petechia (sp?) (bruising/hemorrhaging beneath surface of skin) can show up and be much more evident in the hours after death so what if the perp(s) though they had removed evidence by beheading Mr. D but some remained that was only visible to the naked eye well after the perp(s) had made their getaway?

anyway interesting thought - thanks

 

[Treelights]

RSBM on the blood spatter or presume lack thereof, good thought about strangulation. That would be a separate weapon for sure either by hand or device. Might also explain how Sills is so convinced that there were two different murder weapons. Perhaps strangulation marks on the neck area that remained after the beheading. If I remember right the petechia (sp?) (bruising/hemorrhaging beneath surface of skin) can show up and be much more evident in the hours after death so what if the perp(s) though they had removed evidence by beheading Mr. D but some remained that was only visible to the naked eye well after the perp(s) had made their getaway?

anyway interesting thought - thanks

If Russell was wearing a gold chain, I wonder if he could have been strangled with it? (In that one photo, it really looks like he is wearing a thick rope or rolo style chain or similar style to those.)
IMOO.

 

[Hickory Born]

I wonder if Russel was outdoors to the back of the residence (lake view) and saw something that he then hustled toward the house to report. Seeing someone following him he made haste for the garage hoping to lock himself in and the perp(s) out.

Perp(s) manage to corner him in or very near to the garage and he is killed, dragged into the position he is found and beheaded. At some point Shirley from inside the house hears something in the garage which catches her attention and she is taken captive as insurance while perp(s) make getaway back toward boat. Once on the water and well away from the Dermond residence Shilrey became a liability rather than insurance and she was summarily struck over the head and then dumped overboard in the channel near to where she eventually surfaced and was found.

I cannot think of anything so bad for Mr. D to see that would make a person kill him. Someone could have been doing drugs on his dock or having sex with a neighbor, but do you kill an old man and his wife for seeing that, IMO no.

 

[Rhyolite]

For the theories of an ex-NSA guy, check out http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/flight370condensed.html

I have been proudly wearing my tinfoil hat since 1984, and even I can recognize the author of that website as being a KOOK!

The plane caught fire, the crew responded valiantly but unsuccessfully and the plane crashed. No conspiracy, no mysterious intentional acts. It was fire, fire is very bad in a plane, it crashed. It did not fly either the arcs predicted by Inmarsat. Doppler shift derived from frequency error can be mistaken from temperature induced oscillator shift. A fuselage floating in the sea could transpond for hours with inmarsat on the batteries attached to the satellite terminal. Has anyone asked why the ELT transmitter never was heard transmitting? Interestingly Honeywell ELT's like those used on that aircraft were recalled LAST YEAR. Why? Because their batteries short and catch fire. A 787 had fuselage burn through due to the ELT. Hmmmmmmmmm.....

 

[east2west]

we have no evidence that the body of Mrs. D was weighted down. Only that the sheriff said she was placed where she was found and that he answered one reporter's question during the presser he gave after finding her body about bodies being submerged and natural decomp causing them to fill with gasses and rise to the surface.

The rest has been supposition by sleuths trying to discern the meaning behind those statements.

I thought I read at one point that her body was found tethered to a tree(s) in the lake.? It's all a blur now..I'm starting to confuse "What's been reported" with "What's been theorized".

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[mck16]

I thought I read at one point that her body was found tethered to a tree(s) in the lake.? It's all a blur now..I'm starting to confuse "What's been reported" with "What's been theorized".

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

I thought that when she was first found and Sills was asked those questions he declined to answer them. Maybe he came out later, but initially he wouldn't say. I may be wrong but that is how I remember it. jmo

 

[Treelights]

I thought I read at one point that her body was found tethered to a tree(s) in the lake.? It's all a blur now..I'm starting to confuse "What's been reported" with "What's been theorized".

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

" "I don't want to go into detail. She was just hung up on a log, a tree top of a tree," said Higgs. "
http://www.waff.com/story/25545868/fisherman-speaks-out-after-finding-body-of-89-year-old-woman

" Dermond was partially submerged. Sills would not comment on whether any attempt was made to weigh down the body. "

" "I will not get into anything that could jeopardize the investigation," Sills said. "
http://www.waff.com/story/25539405/report-of-unidentified-body-found-in-eatonton

 

[Nuvolari]

I thought that when she was first found and Sills was asked those questions he declined to answer them. Maybe he came out later, but initially he wouldn't say. I may be wrong but that is how I remember it. jmo

If there is any update regarding the information in the Sheriff's May 16th afternoon press conference, or any additional information regarding tethers or weights, I would ask for specific links to please be posted. The only other pertinent information was a news report that advice on lake currents was being sought by the Sheriff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Y-6UFV_jI

 

[Rhyolite]

I cannot think of anything so bad for Mr. D to see that would make a person kill him. Someone could have been doing drugs on his dock or having sex with a neighbor, but do you kill an old man and his wife for seeing that, IMO no.

Bartender; I will have one of those "Sex on the Dock" please. Make mine on the rocks.

 

[Carolinapeach]

I cannot think of anything so bad for Mr. D to see that would make a person kill him. Someone could have been doing drugs on his dock or having sex with a neighbor, but do you kill an old man and his wife for seeing that, IMO no.

For some reason, tlcya's theory clicked for me. Maybe he witnessed someone pull up to the neighbor's dock with intent to burglarize the home? Now I can't remember where I read that the neighbor was out of the country.

 

[mck16]

If there is any update regarding the information in the Sheriff's May 16th afternoon press conference, or any additional information regarding tethers or weights, I would ask for specific links to please be posted. The only other pertinent information was a news report that advice on lake currents was being sought by the Sheriff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Y-6UFV_jI

There is a Shirley and Russell Dermond Media Thread. All the media info is there. Is that what you need?