GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

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Dyed straw would be interesting in a flower bed or pot. jmo

Just now coming back on line.:)

We have pine trees in our yard both in the front and back but we do not use pine straw in our flowerbeds. We have cedar mulch or colored rubber mulch in some of the beds.

But a little bit of trivia:

For those who have outside cats putting pine cones in your flower planters/pots keeps the cats from jumping up on the top of the planter to sleep. Therefore they don't crush and destroy your flowers.:floorlaugh:

The pine cones also makes it look very decorative and pretty around the base of the flowers. So I do use all of the pine cones that fall every year since we do have outside cats.

imo
 
I thought I read at one point that her body was found tethered to a tree(s) in the lake.? It's all a blur now..I'm starting to confuse "What's been reported" with "What's been theorized".

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the tethered to a tree business was supposition and theorizing based on the sheriff's use of the word placed in regard to Shirley Dermond's body.
 
Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Y-6UFV_jI

Above link to press meeting when Mrs. Dermond’s body found. A noteworthy statement is Sills responding to a question by a newsperson at 2’50” regarding why the body might have been found at that location, and in his response he used the words, “…or at least to that vicinity”. Just before the end of the meeting Sills is asked if the body could have floated to the location and his reply is, “I don’t think so…,” (because of the distance, he says) which seems to indicate it could have, but he just doesn’t think so, meaning it wasn’t tethered. He made no declarative statement that the body was not weighted, though unless the weight was so heavy no ordinary person could have managed it without difficulty, the corpse would still have risen though it would have taken additional time of decomposition to increase the corpse volume in order to lift the weight.

If Mrs. Dermond's body was in the water the night of Friday the 2nd, 14 days elapsed before the corpse was discovered. The lake was searched for those two weeks but was discovered by fishermen. It is certainly conceivable that the searchers simply missed seeing the corpse, which is somewhat embarrassing for them, but it may not yet have risen enough to be spotted as it was by the fishermen.

So it seems possible for the corpse to have been placed elsewhere, possibly far upstream, weighted. It also seems possible that the corpse was placed somewhere unknown in the lake at some time after the 2nd. The issue of weighted or not may depend more on the sharp eyes of searchers considering the possible circumstances.

Nuvolari, I can remember us discussing different methods to anchor a body in a lake. This was a few threads back and the discussion was initiated due to comments made to msm by Sheriff Sills. Just can't remember what his exact comments were now..

LE/DNR was only focused on the lake area around the Dermond's property. Sheriff Sills made the statement early in the investigation that searching Lake Oconee would be analogous to looking for a needle in a haystack.. Most missing/murdered person's remains are located due to an aware hunter, fisherman, hiker, dog walker, etc.. Some are located by professional SARs such as CUE & TES, but seldom does LE locate remains without a confession by the perp or a citizen's tip, imo..
 
There is a Shirley and Russell Dermond Media Thread. All the media info is there. Is that what you need?
Can you please provide the link to that thread? I want any verifiable information regarding facts from official sources about the discovery and subsequent knowledge gained from finding the corpse of Mrs. Dermond.
 
Just now coming back on line.:)

We have pine trees in our yard both in the front and back but we do not use pine straw in our flowerbeds. We have cedar mulch or colored rubber mulch in some of the beds.

But a little bit of trivia:

For those who have outside cats putting pine cones in your flower planters/pots keeps the cats from jumping up on the top of the planter to sleep. Therefore they don't crush and destroy your flowers.:floorlaugh:

The pine cones also makes it look very decorative and pretty around the base of the flowers. So I do use all of the pine cones that fall every year since we do have outside cats.

imo

I had forgotten about this. I am going to find me some tomorrow. I think it was also two purposes as far as keeping the weeds out. Thank you!
 
I cannot think of anything so bad for Mr. D to see that would make a person kill him. Someone could have been doing drugs on his dock or having sex with a neighbor, but do you kill an old man and his wife for seeing that, IMO no.

a rape, an assault, a murder of an unknown individual, a big drug or weapons for cash exchange. Shrug, just throwing stuff at walls no link to back it up. But if this happened Friday evening, prior to the weekend or part time residents arriving, that area of the lake where their house sits, while visible to some of the houses on the lake, may have seemed a good secluded cove or bend in which to engage in criminal pursuit of one sort of another by "hoodlums"

I don't see any reason to kill an elderly couple period. But the Perp(s) did. He or they obviously don't think like me or vice versa.
 
Local man arrested for suspected thefts
04/05/07
http://forum.gon.com/archive/index.php/t-111750.html

Theft by boat. I remember seeing the pictures of the cache of stolen property they found when this happened. It was unreal. All taken at night by boat. Sorry about the link. Best I could do because it was so long ago.

Thanks.

I have considered that as a possible motive and it made me wonder if Russ locked up his garage at night along with his main home or left it open. I even thought that he could have interrupted a burglar because it seems now since so many people have alarms for their homes the thieves are targeting what they can steal off of the property itself now or garages/outbuildings etc........and taking lawnmowers, power tools etc.

But then that is where I become stumped and the rest of it just doesn't link together for me at least.

So lets say Russ does hear someone rummaging around in his garage in the middle of the night, turns the alarm off, and walks out, and confronts him. Then the burglar decides it is worth the risk to murder him and murders Shirley because she rushes out and is then an eye witness.

That does line up with Sills saying they were killed because of something they had or something someone thought they had.

BUT then if he had gone to all these risks of robbing them then why wouldn't he rob them? There wouldn't be anything stopping him then from taking what he wanted. But Sills says the inside of the home is immaculate with nothing out of place and he said nothing was missing.

That is where I hit a roadblock again. And why would a burglar who is a petty thief and who is a stranger take the time to cut Russ' head off and then take it with him? And why would he care if Shirley's body was left there with Russ since he would have no familiar linkage to either one of them. Another stumbling block for me.

BUT I would be able to make some sense of this if the burglar was from their own neighborhood and knew the Dermonds knew him (maybe even a grandson of another prominent family living there who had a drug habit) and knew they would call the police, expose him, and he would be arrested. He may even have been on probation at the time.

BBM Hmmmmmmmmmm ok now I think I have just talked myself into thinking this theory may be very plausible. I need to hang a sign up with each post lately saying "Work in Progress"! :floorlaugh:

IMO
 
OT:

I just got a local breaking news alert about an hour ago and someone put 5 sticks of dynamite and a timer wrapped around the dynamite in one of the GoodWill drop off donation centers next to a busy grocery store. The GW worker found it when going through the boxes left.

The GBI bomb squad has been called in. It was found about an hour ago. It will probably take the bomb squad about an hour to get there since their field office is an hour away. The Sheriffs department has the road blocked off both ways and the store has been evacuated.

This is about 5 miles from where we live but its only about a mile from where two of our children/spouses/children and from my brother's home who lives in that area. Its a very nice rural area and very a quiet area with mostly nice upper middle class families with children living in that area.

And then today we have the man and woman who walked into a Las Vegas pizza restaurant and murdered two police officers point blank saying the revolution had begun.:banghead: Thankfully both cowards killed themselves.

Sometimes it feels like the entire country seems to be filling up with violent people.


IMO
 
Nuvolari, I can remember us discussing different methods to anchor a body in a lake. This was a few threads back and the discussion was initiated due to comments made to msm by Sheriff Sills. Just can't remember what his exact comments were now..

LE/DNR was only focused on the lake area around the Dermond's property. Sheriff Sills made the statement early in the investigation that searching Lake Oconee would be analogous to looking for a needle in a haystack.. Most missing/murdered person's remains are located due to an aware hunter, fisherman, hiker, dog walker, etc.. Some are located by professional SARs such as CUE & TES, but seldom does LE locate remains without a confession by the perp or a citizen's tip, imo..

This statement by Sills seems to indicate that Mrs Dermond remains may have been weighted. JMO

BBM
Sills says he believes whoever killed the Dermonds left Russell Dermond’s headless body where it would be found, but never planned for Shirley Dermond’s remains to float to the surface of the lake and be discovered.

“I think it was a matter just to distract us, to concentrate our attention towards the whereabouts of Mrs. Dermond; whether we suspected her to be a suspect or we suspected that she had been abducted,” said Sills.

http://www.wsbradio.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngD9b/
 
Okay, have heard alot about dogs picking up scents in other threads and there was much debate

I know this could turn into a long drawn out discussion

All I want to know is:

Do the dogs hit on only decomposition? Or are we talking about scent to find like a "missing person" or is it all the same? Is there a difference in cadaver dogs and other trained dogs?

Can someone elaborate? I know this was discussed in length on another discussion forum I was on but the discussino was on locating body parts mostly

Thanks IA !

I bet those are beautiful! Never seen a pine woven basket, and when I read this post, all I could think of was bird's nest, with the needles and horse hair neatly woven together to make a really sturdy nest.



I was thinking the same thing. BUT, if rolled down the hill, or dragged down, or even walked down, the dogs should have picked up a scent. Maybe they did, and it just hasn't been reported.



Difference in pine trees produces different needles.



Still sticking with the thought the the Dermonds KNEW the perps, maybe saw them while walking, knew from golfing, works at one of the diners there, church related, family friend, or friend of a friend. Maybe just from social gatherings. Maybe did work for them on the property. Not sure HOW, but I still feel the Dermonds did know the perps.

Thought I had another post quoted but not seeing it here now...at any rate, was talking about blood splatter...if Mr. Dermond was strangled or suffocated before beheaded, there wouldn't be blood splatter.
 
Okay, have heard alot about dogs picking up scents in other threads and there was much debate

I know this could turn into a long drawn out discussion

All I want to know is:

Do the dogs hit on only decomposition? Or are we talking about scent to find like a "missing person" or is it all the same? Is there a difference in cadaver dogs and other trained dogs?

Can someone elaborate? I know this was discussed in length on another discussion forum I was on but the discussino was on locating body parts mostly

Thanks IA !

Different dogs for different types of searches. Then there is different degrees of training for the dogs and handlers. We do have a several members who are SAR with dogs that could help with answers. I think there is also a thread devoted to questions and answers about that, bit I don't remember where...maybe from the main page.

ETA: NEW K9 SAR Questions & Answers-Ask the Pros! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
I would hope that dogs of both types (HDR) and scent were used initially at the scene. We had one dead body missing a key part and one missing possibly live abducted person so I would think both types of dogs would have been useful at the scene.

And not to besmirch Sheriff Sills because he seems well-respected and savvy experienced investigator. But had GBI been there and running the show I would feel pretty confident that both were used.

But they weren't so I am not as confident.
 
Thanks.

BUT I would be able to make some sense of this is if the burglar was from their own neighborhood and knew the Dermonds knew him (maybe even a grandson of another prominent family living there who had a drug habit) and knew they would call the police, expose him, and he would be arrested. He may even have been on probation at the time.

IMO
Snipped by me for space

Your opinions and ideas are usually spot on! I just don't see this as a common theft that escalated into a double murder. It was too organized and planned to have started out as him thinking 'I need money for my habit so need to rob these old people tonight'.

Also, if the perp was on probation, his fingerprints would be on file.

Someone else commented upthread that perhaps Mr. D. saw some illegal transaction taking place at his dock. I doubt this also as Mr. D. would either immediately call the sheriff to report it and the sheriff would have a record of ithe call OR if he saw something and a person came back later, then once news of the murder hit the papers, there would be suspicions from the person in the other boat. Hmmm, guess that could be who called Sills? But they would need to tell on themself as to how they knew what went down.

Just my two cents as to what did not happen. Oh, by the way, pine straw is very hard to put back in place once disturbed! If my water hose scoots it up as I pull the hose along, I cannot get it put back smoothly or perfectly. So, it would be detected immediately if a body was dragged or pulled down the hill.
 
Ocean, you may want to spell out GW(Goodwill)..

Didn't I spell it out at first of my post then abbreviated it later on?:scared:

If not I am so sorry everyone.

Thanks for keeping me straight my friend.:)
 
I would hope that dogs of both types (HDR) and scent were used initially at the scene. We had one dead body missing a key part and one missing possibly live abducted person so I would think both types of dogs would have been useful at the scene.

And not to besmirch Sheriff Sills because he seems well-respected and savvy experienced investigator. But had GBI been there and running the show I would feel pretty confident that both were used.

But they weren't so I am not as confident.

Not sure if PCSO or the DNR is aware but there is a new forensic advanced sensor tool for remains detection of clandestine graves, odor detection, etc.; The Labrador.
Dr. Arpad Vass of the TN Body Farm, Cyril V. Thompson MS, and Marc Wise Phd, were all instrumental in developing this new technology for locating remains..

Labrador - New Alpha Dog Human Remains Detection
http://www.forensicmag.com/articles/2010/06/labrador-new-alpha-dog-human-remains-detection
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/231197.pdf
 
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