GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[J Block]

Look at the weekly arrest reports in the local paper in Eatonton- the Eatonton Messenger. And in the Atlanta papers. Meth and heroin are big problems in big cities, the suburbs, and small towns. I know of many kids- public school, private school, million dollar homes, apartments - who have died in the past 3 years in our very nice area. It's the dirty little secret.
And using drugs rewires the brain. Addiction makes formerly smart, logical people do bad things. Often educated, smart people. They will lie, cheat, steal, rob and/ or murder to get what they need. Dealt with this in my extended family and it had a deadly ending in another state. A very dark time in our lives.

I understand the effect of the drug. I understand the the lifestyle, desperation and how it destroys cognitive function. I'm very familiar w/ it's chemical make-up, it's production, it's distribution, and the overall effect it has on the community. I worked Vice for a number of years before moving to the Major Crimes Div. I worked very closely w/ the Pagans. In my area, the Pagans are tied into Meth more than any other part of society. The largest chapter is here in Philadelphia. Their headquarters is in Delaware County Pa. Ironically, this afternoon, we had 13 pagans who engaged in a firefight w/ associates of theirs at a major clandestine Meth manufacturing location.

So, as I questioned before, what SPECIFICALLY about this case leads people to believe the suspect(s) were under the influence, or had any ties w/ Meth ?

 

[Foxfire]

I understand the effect of the drug. I understand the the lifestyle, desperation and how it destroys cognitive function. I'm very familiar w/ it's chemical make-up, it's production, it's distribution, and the overall effect it has on the community. I worked Vice for a number of years before moving to the Major Crimes Div. I worked very closely w/ the Pagans. In my area, the Pagans are tied into Meth more than any other part of society. The largest chapter is here in Philadelphia. Their headquarters is in Delaware County Pa. Ironically, this afternoon, we had 13 pagans who engaged in a firefight w/ associates of theirs at a major clandestine Meth manufacturing location.

So, as I questioned before, what SPECIFICALLY about this case leads people to believe the suspect(s) were under the influence, or had any ties w/ Meth ?

<BBM for Focus>

J Block, probability, imo..

 

[Jo in Calif]

My thinking still hasn't changed, I think the killer went there for one reason and that was to kill Russell and Shirley was collateral damage, self preservation, she was a witness.
I still think the beheading was to send a message and that message was to Russel.

 

[Solitaryone]

Well, with the new info. from Sheriff Sills, I've changed my mind about who committed these murders. I had been of the belief that family was in some way involved, but I'm now on board with it being a resident of the community. The killer(s) being someone in the community fits all the known facts, and makes the most sense, as OBE and others here have laid out. I had thought there was one killer who was older, even though it seemed as if it could be two killers. With the new info., I now believe it was two younger men who went to rob the Dermond's. IMO, I think one of the killers shot Mr. Dermond in the head. I also think it wasn't supposed to go down the way it did, but after Mr. Dermond was shot, there was no going back, and the killers had to cover their tracks. This could still work with one killer, but I'm leaning toward two now. After the murders I think the killer(s) stayed at the Dermond's Friday night, figuring out how to cover their tracks, and decided to decapitate Mr. Dermond to hide evidence.

Maybe he or they were going to try and remove both Dermond's, but Mr. Dermond was too heavy, there was no room, and he/they wanted to hide evidence that could link he/they to the killings, so decapitated Mr.. Dermond, perhaps with a plan to dismember him, but after removing the head, he/they thought it would be too messy, and too much work, so instead took the head along with Mrs. Dermond's body. I think Mrs. Dermond was killed after Mr. Dermond, but before Mr. Dermond was decapitated. I think the killer(s) showered, and cleaned the areas of the house he/they had been in, and then left with the head and Mrs. Dermond's body. I think the killer(s) thought he/they had erased all traces of anything that could link them to the murders/Dermond home. I think he/they are wrong. I think Sheriff Sills will be coming for them, and I hope whoever did this despicable thing knows this as well.

I hope that the State of Georgia imposes the ultimate penalty for what was done to the Dermond's, and that when the time comes, there are no plea deals!

 

[Happyshoes]

Druggie...and I say meth b/c heroin is in a different kind of environment (imo). This is not a crack deal, either. They wouldn't have the wherewithal to get anywhere by boat. This is a freak who was tweaking Friday night. I'll bet he slept all day Sat and/or Sun.
Could he have had a dude with him? or a girlfriend with him? ....depends maybe on the cleaning or if they washed their clothes. So hopeful for what I think is going to be an arrest soon.

 

[JustyThoughts]

I've not been able to join the theory that the perp/s stayed overnight at the D's house. While it could be accurate.... I just think a perp would want to get the deed done, clean up any potential connection and get the heck out of Dodge. Here is my thinking..... perp did not know if there was anyone dropping by or if there were cams capturing photos, or if anyone saw or heard something that could have LE/Security on the way. A perp would not want a dead body (Mr D) in a garage and the perp in the house chilling. In addition, a perp would likely do a sloppy job of cleaning up the house they had stayed in all night..... when they still had the task of doing something with 2 dead bodies ahead of them.

However saying that.... I know it can and has happened in other cases.

 

[JustyThoughts]

OT, I must toot my own horn at my 1,000th post. :yesss:

Over the past nearly 5 years I have followed many cases on WS. :websleuther: For many I read and posted rarely; others I was a post-a-matic. Some cases were so very sad and still have not reached a closure. Others had a good ending such as the young lady from coastal GA area that went missing and was found by her family in Miami, FL. Her relative took feedback from WS that lead them to find the missing young woman.

On this post 1,000 - I want to thank WS for this site; for your TOS and for the excellent mods. I've been enriched by the creative & caring minds and abilities of so many other sleuthers.

 

[Cardinal47]

That could have been the loud voices that someone reported hearing. One perp got mad because of Mr. D being shot in the head and not exiting to be able to retrieve the bullet. Pretty ballsy to be seen walking up to the house frm the water too.

That bothers me too. I wonder if it is true? Has it been verified that some neighbor did indeed see somebody walking up the hill on Saturday?

If true the whole game changes for me!

 

[Backwoods]

My mind keeps going to the fishermen who found Shirley.

Not thinking that they were involved in the murders...but wondering if, maybe, somehow, some way, one of them got a little piece of info, by some long, torturously-curlicued tendril of some grapevine or other...

Like... the wife of one of them told him her hairstylist said her brother said his friend heard a guy talking at a bar, and the guy said a fellow he worked with swore that he heard some other guy say that he'd heard a group of his buddies talking and they seemed to know somehow for a fact that Shirley was dead and was in the lake, somewhere near the dam. Something like that.

If you were someone who liked to fish and had or knew someone that has a boat, and heard there was a reward (albeit somewhat flexibly worded) of an amount that would be meaningful to you ...maybe you might think, ya know, there's probably NOTHING to this, I hate to bother LE with something so vague -- I think FIRST I'll just get my buddy and we'll go out that way on the lake and do a little crappie fishing and just take a little look around... . And then, if we don't see anything, and we probably won't, MAYBE I'll call LE anyhow and tell what I heard....

I guess what makes me think this COULD be possible -- and it is JUST A THEORY -- is the solicitation for upping that reward on up there. (A) There's a community that's concerned, rightfully so, and I bet some are pretty verbal about it... so why not ask the good folks to put their money where their worries are? (B) And if this IS the kind of crime, the kind of criminals, with which somehow a rumor could get out on the 'vine (and prove true) about where a body is ... then there's people out there who know more than ever reached a fisherman's ears ... and one of them may have a price.

All JMO.

 

[tomkat]

And Walmart Is Open 24/7 In Eatonton

Also, The Reward Money/Botched Robbery Does Make Perfect Sense To Me

Beheading Is Still Very Puzzling

Also Adding That If You Have Or Carry A Gun, You Must Be Prepared To Use/Fire It, Otherwise You Are A Sitting Duck For Perps To Use Your Own WeAPOn Against You

Thinking A POssibility In This Case Though No Clue About Whether They ArE Gun Owners And Not A REAson For decap Too Hide Evidence, ButT Of Gun Though=Bft

All Makes Sense But DecAp Leading Peoples Thoughts They're, Not Stupid O ignorant

BUT IF YOU REMOVE THIS FACTOR OF BEHEADING FROM EQUATION, WhAt Does The Case Appear As?

@ The Lake, No ComputeR, HardR Using Phone!


Eaeve

BBM

May be where the reward money comes in and was hoped to help.

 

[Foxfire]

OT, I must toot my own horn at my 1,000th post. :yesss:

Over the past nearly 5 years I have followed many cases on WS. :websleuther: For many I read and posted rarely; others I was a post-a-matic. Some cases were so very sad and still have not reached a closure. Others had a good ending such as the young lady from coastal GA area that went missing and was found by her family in Miami, FL. Her relative took feedback from WS that lead them to find the missing young woman.

On this post 1,000 - I want to thank WS for this site; for your TOS and for the excellent mods. I've been enriched by the creative & caring minds and abilities of so many other sleuthers.

<BBM for Focus>

Congrats on your 1,000th post, Justy Thoughts!

Joe Johnson article; Family's perseverance, social networking led to recovery of Endangered missing Athens woman..

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/...-networking-led-recovery-missing-athens-woman

 

[lakeoconee]

I agree because the dates on the Dermonds' obits is not jiving with when I think they were killed. The 6th was the Tuesday Mr. D was found. I can't imagine they were kept alive that whole time, but never say never right?

marking my spot....... :banghead:

I can't remember the dates of deaths from the obituary, but the official date of death on a Death cert. is when the deceased is DECLARED to be dead by a medical professional. I known that to be true a couple of times when no foul play involved. But that's important in estate issues, etc. Estimated date, time would be useful in criminal investigation,

 

[lakeoconee]

I think Shirley was killed on the boat too. They didn't plan on killing them, but they were definitely bungled. I think his luck is running out too.

I don't think she was killed on the boat. In the wide open on either a Friday or Saturday when people would hear screams?

 

[Hickory Born]

My thinking still hasn't changed, I think the killer went there for one reason and that was to kill Russell and Shirley was collateral damage, self preservation, she was a witness.
I still think the beheading was to send a message and that message was to Russel.

BBM
How do you send a message to a dead person? Mr. D was dead before he was beheaded.

 

[Jo in Calif]

BBM
How do you send a message to a dead person? Mr. D was dead before he was beheaded.

I think it was in the killers mind, I think he was very pissed at Russell, I think Russel might have said something to him that he thought was insulting his intelligence. Beheading him was his way of saying to Russell,"how smart do you think you are now?"
We can say all we want that no one would do something like that, over something like this, but we don't think like some of the killers out there that have done what they have done.

 

[OTPTarheel]

I understand the effect of the drug. I understand the the lifestyle, desperation and how it destroys cognitive function. I'm very familiar w/ it's chemical make-up, it's production, it's distribution, and the overall effect it has on the community. I worked Vice for a number of years before moving to the Major Crimes Div. I worked very closely w/ the Pagans. In my area, the Pagans are tied into Meth more than any other part of society. The largest chapter is here in Philadelphia. Their headquarters is in Delaware County Pa. Ironically, this afternoon, we had 13 pagans who engaged in a firefight w/ associates of theirs at a major clandestine Meth manufacturing location.

So, as I questioned before, what SPECIFICALLY about this case leads people to believe the suspect(s) were under the influence, or had any ties w/ Meth ?

Would violate TOS. I found websleuths when I googled a day or so after the bodies were found. Some stuff popped up in my search along with the websleuths postings.

 

[stmarysmead]

I am late to joining your discussion so I may have missed whether authorities have indicated who was killed first. The reason I ask is that if indeed this was an attempt to force the Dermonds to give SOMETHING in particular to the perpetrators, maybe the beheading came first.

Perhaps it was thought that isolating and terrifying Mrs Dermond would force her to submit to their demands? In other words, if the intruders believed there was a safe (for example) and the Dermonds were insisting they did not have one, the perpetrators might have thought the ultimate act of brutality would break Mrs Dermond.

And living in a community like this, I don't believe that the absence of evidence if a break-in proves anything. In a community that hasn't even had a minor crime, with the false sense if security that the manned guard gate and private security force enables, doors are left unlocked and alarm systems left unused. Garage doors are usually closed due to esthetics...and the variety of "critters" that roam through from the woods. But in many cases, any given day...someone can just walk up from the lake and walk in an open door.

This family has lived there many years. I doubt they ever had a moments doubt about their security until it was too late.

I'd like to know how wide this cove was...or if they were on a main channel of the lake? I'd like to see a street plan and know how many of the houses were part-time residents...or even occupied in this time period? I'd like to know the weather...was it likely that the lake was busy in this time period?

A body or...a frightened woman needed to be taken down that slope and onto the boat dock and put into the boat. Then taken to a certain spot and unloaded. Quite an operation IMO.

 

[Foxfire]

Welcome to the Thread StMarysMead...

Good post...
Most of the answers to your questions, photos, maps, videos, etc., can be found at the media links thread;

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243911&highlight=shirley+dermond

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If perp wasn't planning on killing them, did he bring a gun with him? Many of us think Mr D was shot in the head...where did perp get the gun?

Good Morning Everyone!:seeya: Happy Fathers Day to all the countless great fathers out there. I hope each father is shown how much they are appreciated and shown love for what they do, day in, and day out for their families.:loveyou:

I think most robbers do carry guns in case they are confronted by the resident and they are also known to carry very sharp knives they use to quickly cut wires to electronics.

So I think he had both.

I do believe Russ was shot in the head and then the killer made Shirley kneel down on the boat and he struck her in the back of the head with an object he used to bludgeon her to death.

We would like to think if he shot him the shot would be heard by someone but so many times that is not the case. Even those who live in an adjoining apartment didn't hear their neighbor or neighbors being shot. Homes are just built to absorb sounds and this started more in the 90s so it would include the Dermond home.

IMO

 

[Hickory Born]

Good Morning Everyone!:seeya: Happy Fathers Day to all the countless great fathers out there. I hope each father is shown how much they are appreciated and shown love for what they do, day in, and day out for their families.:loveyou:

I think most robbers do carry guns in case they are confronted by the resident and they are also known to carry very sharp knives they use to quickly cut wires to electronics.

So I think he had both.

I do believe Russ was shot in the head and then the killer made Shirley kneel down on the boat and he struck her in the back of the head with an object he used to bludgeon her to death.

We would like to think if he shot him the shot would be heard by someone but so many times that is not the case. Even those who live in an adjoining apartment didn't hear their neighbor or neighbors being shot. Homes are just built to absorb sounds and this started more in the 90s so it would include the Dermond home.

IMO

So, do you think he is a seasoned robber?