GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

[DAMIFINO]

Treelights might know. They posted the information on the size of the garage. If I remember correctly there were blueprints posted of the home early in the case.



See more at: http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...d-sills-chases-a-killer/#sthash.uVW8KYto.dpuf

I don't know. Sounds like he entered the side door - the one with the steps beside the garage ? and then once in the kitchen there is a door into the garage. Strange to have a front door open to your dining area. We have only one entrance to our garage besides the obvious garage doors and it is a door from the kitchen that opens to the garage. However, the garage doors could have been open at the point all this went down and the killer shut them once he had silenced the Dermonds. Maybe that's why the neighbors didn't enter the house sooner because the garage doors were down and that means the Dermonds were not home.

Looking at the photos on Zillow, I can't even count how many exterior doors there are. I would guess that they all had deadbolt locks not the kind with just a button that you push or turn to close and lock on the way out. Open floor plan, strange floor plan with visibility completely through the house from the front door to the back. Cannot see the kitchen or if someone was sitting in the kitchen maybe at the bar from the front door, though. There is a door from the porch to the kitchen and a door from the back deck to the kitchen. My guess is that the neighbors came in through the porch. They either had a key or knew where one was hidden. Mr. Neighbor checked the garage through the unlocked garage door to see if a vehicle was gone and found Mr. D.
So, the perps could have been let in or forced their way in through the front, did whatever they were there to do, and left through the garage door, letting it down on the way out. Front door still unlocked, and house door to garage unlocked.

 

[Treelights]

Looking at the photos on Zillow, I can't even count how many exterior doors there are. I would guess that they all had deadbolt locks not the kind with just a button that you push or turn to close and lock on the way out. Open floor plan, strange floor plan with visibility completely through the house from the front door to the back. Cannot see the kitchen or if someone was sitting in the kitchen maybe at the bar from the front door, though. There is a door from the porch to the kitchen and a door from the back deck to the kitchen. My guess is that the neighbors came in through the porch. They either had a key or knew where one was hidden. Mr. Neighbor checked the garage through the unlocked garage door to see if a vehicle was gone and found Mr. D.
So, the perps could have been let in or forced their way in through the front, did whatever they were there to do, and left through the garage door, letting it down on the way out. Front door still unlocked, and house door to garage unlocked.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

In the number 14 of 25 photos on Zillow, there is a photo of their kitchen. It looks like maybe a pantry door in the center of the kitchen, and off to the left, there are 2 doors. Maybe one goes to the covered patio, and from that hall to the covered patio/covered porch, maybe there's a door to the garage? Maybe that second door is a bathroom?, unless that door goes to the garage.
On the right in the photo there's a door that looks like it goes to the covered patio/covered porch.
In the number 6 of 25 photos there's a photo of the covered patio/covered porch, however you want to call it, and also the garage.
IMOO.

Here is a link to the floor plan, as well.
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/cgi-bin/gap_sketch.cgi?county=putnam&p=3605&b=8560&s=400&c=putnam&t=R

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

15 of 25 shows a glass door from the kitchen to the deck and/or screened porch, if you look at also 25 of 25, you can see the grill and screened porch from the back of the house

is there another kitchen door to the outside?

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

In the number 14 of 25 photos on Zillow, there is a photo of their kitchen. It looks like maybe a pantry door in the center of the kitchen, and off to the left, there are 2 doors. Maybe one goes to the covered patio, and from that hall to the covered patio/covered porch, maybe there's a door to the garage? Maybe that second door is a bathroom?, unless that door goes to the garage.
On the right in the photo there's a door that looks like it goes to the covered patio/covered porch.
In the number 6 of 25 photos there's a photo of the covered patio/covered porch, however you want to call it, and also the garage.
IMOO.

Here is a link to the floor plan, as well.
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/cgi-bin/gap_sketch.cgi?county=putnam&p=3605&b=8560&s=400&c=putnam&t=R

looks like all along the left side of the house is screened porch kitchen DR, see front view and chandelier in window, and surely one goes to the garage from kitchen

LR middle of house

So when they say, the neighbor entered thru the kitchen door, wonder if that meant from the garage entrance door to the kitchen or the back of the house on the deck to the kitchen? Did he find the body first and then go looking for MRS D? IIRC, he foudn RD and then went inside looking for SD, garage must've been up

 

[Sonya610]

In other words, the perceived wrong could have been totally in the mind of the killer and not anything that Mr. D or anyone else did!

Yes of course. Or it could have been a wrong that "could not be proven in a court of law". Or it could have been a very cruel thing that wouldn't be considered a crime, though would devastate someone intentionally.

I can envision various scenarios in which there was a serious problem, but it never became a "big public thing". Some folks don't call 911, they wait and settle the score.

 

[AskMeNoQuestions]

I love this movie! One of my top 5 favorite of all times. I also love The Walking Dead and I think it is just so exciting that you folks there in Georgia are right there where it is filmed. I love all the little interesting tidbits that are posted on the Talking Dead about places in Georgia where certain scenes are filmed.

I didn't know the Walking Dead was filmed in GA. Hmmm.

Don't forget about the character from the WD series, "The Governor", who collected heads...

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/The_Governor's_Victims_(TV_Series)

 

[Sonya610]

Yeah this had nothing to do with watching too much TV.

On another note....the symbolism is apparent.

He was definitely the target, big, bold in your face murder/decapitation. She was collateral damage, and her murder was not something to brag about/be proud of.

Not the work of teenagers IMO.

 

[Bootsctr]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

In the number 14 of 25 photos on Zillow, there is a photo of their kitchen. It looks like maybe a pantry door in the center of the kitchen, and off to the left, there are 2 doors. Maybe one goes to the covered patio, and from that hall to the covered patio/covered porch, maybe there's a door to the garage? Maybe that second door is a bathroom?, unless that door goes to the garage.
On the right in the photo there's a door that looks like it goes to the covered patio/covered porch.
In the number 6 of 25 photos there's a photo of the covered patio/covered porch, however you want to call it, and also the garage.
IMOO.

Here is a link to the floor plan, as well.
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/cgi-bin/gap_sketch.cgi?county=putnam&p=3605&b=8560&s=400&c=putnam&t=R

:tyou: The house is gorgeous! Absolutely stunning views! Someone got an amazing deal. A real shame it was because two people were murdered. I'd install a state of the art alarm system with all the bells and whistles. I'd have a couple of Rottweilers and a couple of Dobermans. Not sure what the HOA allows and doesn't allow, but maybe some trespassing signs too. Fresh Georgia peach pie (when in season of course) and cake or cookies for any security personnel that made a point to make the rounds to that part of Great Waters Reynolds Plantation, and coffee too.

 

[Bootsctr]

I didn't know the Walking Dead was filmed in GA. Hmmm.

Don't forget about the character from the WD series, "The Governor", who collected heads...

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/The_Governor's_Victims_(TV_Series)

Could never forget the "The Governor" and his collection. I'm in withdrawal. :jail: New season doesn't start until this fall. :tantrum: I love Georgia! :loveyou:

[video]https://youtu.be/fRgWBN8yt_E[/video]

 

[watcher9]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

In the number 14 of 25 photos on Zillow, there is a photo of their kitchen. It looks like maybe a pantry door in the center of the kitchen, and off to the left, there are 2 doors. Maybe one goes to the covered patio, and from that hall to the covered patio/covered porch, maybe there's a door to the garage? Maybe that second door is a bathroom?, unless that door goes to the garage.
On the right in the photo there's a door that looks like it goes to the covered patio/covered porch.
In the number 6 of 25 photos there's a photo of the covered patio/covered porch, however you want to call it, and also the garage.
IMOO.

Here is a link to the floor plan, as well.
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/cgi-bin/gap_sketch.cgi?county=putnam&p=3605&b=8560&s=400&c=putnam&t=R

I don't think it makes a difference, but in the features section, it says -
Parking: Garage - Attached, 3 spaces

It could be an error in the listing.

 

[DAMIFINO]

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

In the number 14 of 25 photos on Zillow, there is a photo of their kitchen. It looks like maybe a pantry door in the center of the kitchen, and off to the left, there are 2 doors. Maybe one goes to the covered patio, and from that hall to the covered patio/covered porch, maybe there's a door to the garage? Maybe that second door is a bathroom?, unless that door goes to the garage.
On the right in the photo there's a door that looks like it goes to the covered patio/covered porch.
In the number 6 of 25 photos there's a photo of the covered patio/covered porch, however you want to call it, and also the garage.
IMOO.

Here is a link to the floor plan, as well.
http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/cgi-bin/gap_sketch.cgi?county=putnam&p=3605&b=8560&s=400&c=putnam&t=R

I think we are all saying the same thing, just expressing it differently..
In the Zillow photos, the first photo of the kitchen shows a chandelier ... there is a door with a transom onto the screened in porch Photo 2 of kitchen looks like to the right and at right angle is another door to the back deck. It is partly obscured by the island counter but appears to be a door rather than a window. The photo of the exterior of the house looking down the driveway shows the screened in porch. And as someone posted before, the last photo of the back shows what looks like a door from the kitchen.
Regarding a floor plan for the house, have not seen one, qpublic show a "sketch" which is a footprint of the dimensions for tax purposes.
My guess is that friends would pop in through the screened-in porch. It is the most convenient entry. If I were visiting a friend there, I think that is how I would enter.

 

[Steleheart]

well who knows if he wsa involved in something at or just before retirement, might have just ticked someone off over smoething from the past, IDK, but nobody else does, but as someone stated, steleman or steleheart, somebody really hated (or was angry) with him or them

Yeah this had nothing to do with watching too much TV.

On another note....the symbolism is apparent.

He was definitely the target, big, bold in your face murder/decapitation. She was collateral damage, and her murder was not something to brag about/be proud of.

Not the work of teenagers IMO.

Yes of course. Or it could have been a wrong that "could not be proven in a court of law". Or it could have been a very cruel thing that wouldn't be considered a crime, though would devastate someone intentionally.

I can envision various scenarios in which there was a serious problem, but it never became a "big public thing". Some folks don't call 911, they wait and settle the score.

Me too! Back to it bumping around in my subconscious all the time.
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that the murder was revenge/retribution for a wrong committed by Mr. D. How far could that go back? For the killer himself to be physically able to do what was done, the killer would have to be reasonably fit... as in not old. If you consider someone born in 1950 or younger to be able to do the work involved, then the perceived wrong would probably have occurred after around 1970.
If the person were much older, then he would have hired someone else to do it.
Could also be a descendant of the person slighted.
Want to add the disclaimer that just because a person perceives a wrong, it does not mean that the wrong was intentional or even real.
In other words, the perceived wrong could have been totally in the mind of the killer and not anything that Mr. D or anyone else did!

Thank you for these posts, my thanks button is not working (OY)

In my previous post I was trying to express something similar;
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...County-2-4-May-2014-9&p=11762386#post11762386
"It still seems to me that this crime was very personal against Russell, that they may have abducted and killed Shirley first and when Russell was looking for her, confronted him."

A perceived wrong is not always an actual wrong, especially to a disturbed person capable of something like this. Having said that, my notion that someone stewed in jail and planning this over time seems, though without any evidence, to be a viable theory. Possibly someone who was convicted of stealing, embezzling, etc.
But, moreover, I do not feel it was directed at Sills. If I wanted him to get the message he would personally have the head, IMO.

The symbolism of the "staging" of Russell is significant I think. He was placed between his 2 cars inside the garage, not on the front lawn, not the doorstep and not his bed, etc. No big blood bath as one might expect in an anger fueled rage, but murdered and then beheaded cleanly it seems.

Shirley was likely led on foot to the boat and murdered there - her COD was blunt force trauma as I recall. When Russell came to find her he was lead back to the garage where he was confronted, murdered and then beheaded. Shirley was hidden, weighted down and thought to never be found by this perp. IMO Shirley was hidden because she didn't matter in this crime.

It was personal against Russell. So then I ask myself why the garage, why between the 2 cars and why not make a mess? THAT, IMO is the significance of this crime - the simplicity the neatness. Not the belongings, not the house, not the money, not theft, burglary or rape, extortion, torture or anything else one might imagine.

Just Russell with no head, no face, no smile, no expression whatsoever. A head is very significant to a hunter. Maybe it is not at the bottom of the lake, maybe it is, but what was left for everyone else seems to depict Russell Dermond without "himself" IMO.

Perhaps this person came around recent to the murders, seeking "forgiveness", or "making amends" as it were. He became familiar with the property and the house, their routines, or maybe did some work for them to gain trust.

Stage Russell, make Shirley disappear, make it clear. So why the garage?

I just do not think it relates to Sheriff Howard Sills at all. If it was a message to him he would have been certain of that at the outset, IMO. I do not think the way to get him is simply with an unrelated case that one might think he will never solve. I think it was wholly about getting at RD in a significant way and getting away with murder to the personal satisfaction of the killer.

And I can see it being committed by just one person.

One disturbed and angry person.

These are just my speculations based only partially on the known facts as well as my personal opinion and musings on the case.


MOO

 

[DAMIFINO]

Thank you for these posts, my thanks button is not working (OY)

In my previous post I was trying to express something similar;
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...County-2-4-May-2014-9&p=11762386#post11762386
"It still seems to me that this crime was very personal against Russell, that they may have abducted and killed Shirley first and when Russell was looking for her, confronted him."

A perceived wrong is not always an actual wrong, especially to a disturbed person capable of something like this. Having said that, my notion that someone stewed in jail and planning this over time seems, though without any evidence, to be a viable theory. Possibly someone who was convicted of stealing, embezzling, etc.
But, moreover, I do not feel it was directed at Sills. If I wanted him to get the message he would personally have the head, IMO.

The symbolism of the "staging" of Russell is significant I think. He was placed between his 2 cars inside the garage, not on the front lawn, not the doorstep and not his bed, etc. No big blood bath as one might expect in an anger fueled rage, but murdered and then beheaded cleanly it seems.

Shirley was likely led on foot to the boat and murdered there - her COD was blunt force trauma as I recall. When Russell came to find her he was lead back to the garage where he was confronted, murdered and then beheaded. Shirley was hidden, weighted down and thought to never be found by this perp. IMO Shirley was hidden because she didn't matter in this crime.

It was personal against Russell. So then I ask myself why the garage, why between the 2 cars and why not make a mess? THAT, IMO is the significance of this crime - the simplicity the neatness. Not the belongings, not the house, not the money, not theft, burglary or rape, extortion, torture or anything else one might imagine.

Just Russell with no head, no face, no smile, no expression whatsoever. A head is very significant to a hunter. Maybe it is not at the bottom of the lake, maybe it is, but what was left for everyone else seems to depict Russell Dermond without "himself" IMO.

Perhaps this person came around recent to the murders, seeking "forgiveness", or "making amends" as it were. He became familiar with the property and the house, their routines, or maybe did some work for them to gain trust.

Stage Russell, make Shirley disappear, make it clear. So why the garage?

I just do not think it relates to Sheriff Howard Sills at all. If it was a message to him he would have been certain of that at the outset, IMO. I do not think the way to get him is simply with an unrelated case that one might think he will never solve. I think it was wholly about getting at RD in a significant way and getting away with murder to the personal satisfaction of the killer.

And I can see it being committed by just one person.

One disturbed and angry person.

These are just my speculations based only partially on the known facts as well as my personal opinion and musings on the case.


MOO

That makes the most sense of any scenario that I have read! Gives me chill bumps!! Then the killer leaves by boat and dumps Mrs. D on the way out.

 

[southernmimi]

Could easily be just that simple. It does make me wonder who could have been so angry and determined to do something so vile, but there are those people among us. Maybe SS has his eyes on one of them.

 

[DAMIFINO]

Thank you for these posts, my thanks button is not working (OY)

In my previous post I was trying to express something similar;
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...County-2-4-May-2014-9&p=11762386#post11762386
"It still seems to me that this crime was very personal against Russell, that they may have abducted and killed Shirley first and when Russell was looking for her, confronted him."

A perceived wrong is not always an actual wrong, especially to a disturbed person capable of something like this. Having said that, my notion that someone stewed in jail and planning this over time seems, though without any evidence, to be a viable theory. Possibly someone who was convicted of stealing, embezzling, etc.
But, moreover, I do not feel it was directed at Sills. If I wanted him to get the message he would personally have the head, IMO.

The symbolism of the "staging" of Russell is significant I think. He was placed between his 2 cars inside the garage, not on the front lawn, not the doorstep and not his bed, etc. No big blood bath as one might expect in an anger fueled rage, but murdered and then beheaded cleanly it seems.

Shirley was likely led on foot to the boat and murdered there - her COD was blunt force trauma as I recall. When Russell came to find her he was lead back to the garage where he was confronted, murdered and then beheaded. Shirley was hidden, weighted down and thought to never be found by this perp. IMO Shirley was hidden because she didn't matter in this crime.

It was personal against Russell. So then I ask myself why the garage, why between the 2 cars and why not make a mess? THAT, IMO is the significance of this crime - the simplicity the neatness. Not the belongings, not the house, not the money, not theft, burglary or rape, extortion, torture or anything else one might imagine.

Just Russell with no head, no face, no smile, no expression whatsoever. A head is very significant to a hunter. Maybe it is not at the bottom of the lake, maybe it is, but what was left for everyone else seems to depict Russell Dermond without "himself" IMO.

Perhaps this person came around recent to the murders, seeking "forgiveness", or "making amends" as it were. He became familiar with the property and the house, their routines, or maybe did some work for them to gain trust.

Stage Russell, make Shirley disappear, make it clear. So why the garage?

I just do not think it relates to Sheriff Howard Sills at all. If it was a message to him he would have been certain of that at the outset, IMO. I do not think the way to get him is simply with an unrelated case that one might think he will never solve. I think it was wholly about getting at RD in a significant way and getting away with murder to the personal satisfaction of the killer.

And I can see it being committed by just one person.

One disturbed and angry person.

These are just my speculations based only partially on the known facts as well as my personal opinion and musings on the case.


MOO

Steleheart, Got some questions, because I would like for you to elaborate on your theory. Are you saying that the "simplicity and neatness" of the scene is to draw attention to the headless body by contrast rather than conceal the identity of the perp?
Do you think that the perp is local or someone from a more distant past?
And done at this time because the perp was unable to get to Mr.D sooner, perhaps because he was incarcerated or institutionalized?
Is the personal satisfaction enough for the killer or is he going to need some recognition of some kind? Would he have done this sort of thing before and do you think he has a bucket list of victims?

 

[Canaille]

Yeah this had nothing to do with watching too much TV.

On another note....the symbolism is apparent.

He was definitely the target, big, bold in your face murder/decapitation. She was collateral damage, and her murder was not something to brag about/be proud of.

Not the work of teenagers IMO.

I don't think she was collateral damage. Maybe she was. But, her being beaten in the head just makes me think of anger. If it turns out to be true that he was shot before being beheaded, then why not have just shoot her as well?

 

[Tillicum]

I don't think she was collateral damage. Maybe she was. But, her being beaten in the head just makes me think of anger. If it turns out to be true that he was shot before being beheaded, then why not have just shoot her as well?

My thought as well. Chances are she suffered more than he did, why? Another thought... who would suffer more from his decapitation? He was already dead according to SS so he wouldn't know about it but if Shirley were still alive? If the perp thought she would never be found, then they would be separated forever. Maybe this perp was jealous of their relationship, wealth and seemingly perfect life?

 

[Sonya610]

If it turns out to be true that he was shot before being beheaded, then why not have just shoot her as well?

Maybe because SD was the first victim and the killer didn't want RD to hear the shot.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

That makes the most sense of any scenario that I have read! Gives me chill bumps!! Then the killer leaves by boat and dumps Mrs. D on the way out.

so basically a pissed off maniac, behead him for spite, becaues it make the killer feel good, then dump shirley heading out to Lawrence shoals or some other, just because of the hate in his heart being so strong

the cleanliness of the place, is so disturbing in itself!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I don't think it makes a difference, but in the features section, it says -
Parking: Garage - Attached, 3 spaces

It could be an error in the listing.

yeah there are only 2 doors, but maybe a little larger than usual?