GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

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Hopefully the WSB video will be available online. Info about the concrete cap blocks used to weight Shirley's body...
 
Also, Sills plans to re-interveiw someone close to the couple and take a harder line.
Per Mark Winne, Sills tried to trace the manufacturer of the blocks but concluded the blocks are as common as ketchup.
 
watcher9 said:
This said that the FBI gives more clues so I guess the FBI is still involved.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/fbi-gives-more-clues-death-putnam-county-couple/nkFKz/
Click to expand...

The sheriff says that development has yielded some of the most potentially significant evidence in the case, once a suspect is developed.

“(There’s) a lot more to work with when you have the body,” said FBI Special Agent Steve Emmett. “Whatever Putnam feels that they need from the FBI, we will be there for them.”

Emmett suggests physical evidence isn't the only thing yielded in such situations.

“From a behavioral analysis standpoint, it gives our profilers an insight by the way the body was found, the way it was disposed of as well,” Emmett said.
Click to expand...
If you read the article carefully, it sounds like the FBI are still not actively involved. The concrete blocks info came from SS. It sounds like the FBI agent was commenting on cases in general. What really makes me think that is the statement that the FBI would be there for whatever "Putnam feels that they need from the FBI." Does not sound to me that SS has requested their assistance either. At this point I have to say that it seems SS overrates his experience and capabilities and is guarding this case like a dog with a bone lest someone else actually solve the case. Of course, JMO.
 
Carolinapeach said:
WSB Video 2/19/15
http://bcove.me/nybfzayy
Click to expand...

4inch concrete cap blocks, 35 lbs each, two used to weight Shirley down.


I'm certainly no expert in construction, but I can tell you these are not the normal concrete blocks for house construction. They are used as masonry wall caps.

And I would think if a person were to buy concrete blocks specifically for weighing a body down, they would choose the common ones with the holes that you run rebar through...it would make tying rope to them much easier.

Nope, this person had these caps handy, and perhaps close by.
 
True Crime Lover said:
Thank y'all so much for the all of the links to articles regarding the Dermond case. This certainly is a sharp group! I am very concerned about the lack of investigation in this case. It is long past time for someone else than the local sheriff to look at this case. On one of the links to an article posted I noticed the following:

"Friday when the fishermen spotted Shirley Dermond’s body, it was face down about three miles northwest of the Wallace Dam. The body was roughly 200 feet from an uninhabited spit of woodland on the Greene County side of the water near Riley Shoals."

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064_motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html?rh=1

So the body of Ms. D was apparently found in Greene County, not Putnam County. I do not know about LE jurisdictions and laws, but it seems to me that the investigation into the murder of Ms. D would fall into Greene County jurisdiction. Anyone know about this? Thanks.
Click to expand...

In regards to your question about jurisdiction, I found this link:

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/16/3101652_body-found-in-putnam-county.html?rh=1

"The sheriff said the body was possibly in Greene County waters, but Putnam County most likely will retain jurisdiction in the case."
 
Since they have the two blocks as evidence, it is presumed they also have the ropes that were tied to them and the type of knots that were used. Were the gasses strong enough to lift up and float the blocks along with the body or just the body with the blocks still lying on the bottom?

It seemed odd to report that MrsD was found in water face down when I thought all bodies in water were found face down? But, when I double checked to be factual, I found that women have a tendency to float face up.

As always center of gravity of an object tends to get closer to the Earth, according to the phenomenon i mentioned above, man floats faced down while women faced up.
http://fouzan.weebly.com/why-a-man-floats-face-down-while-women-are-not-after-drown.html

Did the killer underestimate the weight of the blocks, the length of the rope, or the amount of gasses that would be produced? In any of these cases, could that mean that the killer is a professional or an amateur, familiar or unfamiliar with the lake depth at that spot and something else? Why choose that spot instead of the middle of the lake which I presume would be much deeper?
 
Does anyone else remember hearing intially that she was found tethered as well as snagged on some tree limbs that were sticking up from the lake?
 
east2west said:
Does anyone else remember hearing intially that she was found tethered as well as snagged on some tree limbs that were sticking up from the lake?
Click to expand...

Yes, I recall reading that - I don't have a link though.
 
Just saw yesterdays article!

first of all, Mark Winne looks much like Bud Runion in that video!!! In his earlier years

Anyway, so now are we thinking, someone who lives on the lake, someone close to the couple and a hunter or fisherman as well as a construction guy?? Who has end caps laying around, this is amazing. Wonder what kind of rope or chain, that would indicate something too I'm sure.

So now more harsh questioning of someone they have already interviewed that is close to the couple?

Interesting

Another thought is the same as before, they wnated her lost and they wanted him found. That is a message. To who? Their family?

Was this hired? Seriously not someone who does this often I'd think or they'd have known the body would float eventually, oh well, but who would think it would get snagged on tree stumps sticking up when it rose to the surface, so probably thought she'd sink again, the time of year though, surely they had to know there would be boaters and fishermen (and there was) and where she was anchored, did they not know there were trees there?

Ok another dumb murderer
 
Bethanthony said:
4inch concrete cap blocks, 35 lbs each, two used to weight Shirley down.


I'm certainly no expert in construction, but I can tell you these are not the normal concrete blocks for house construction. They are used as masonry wall caps.

And I would think if a person were to buy concrete blocks specifically for weighing a body down, they would choose the common ones with the holes that you run rebar through...it would make tying rope to them much easier.

Nope, this person had these caps handy, and perhaps close by.
Click to expand...

used for foundation construction? Yeah, two things; these are heavier than regular cinder blocks but with no hole, regular are easier to tie something to due to the openings,

OR they had them already? a construction worker? OR because they are so heavy, they purchased them and if you tie a rope on them and lay the block flat, it would hold but when i read the headlines initially on this new article, i thought, they didnt' realize that the body wasn't as solid

I'm sure curious about this person close to the Dermonds that they once questioned that they intend to question again, with a harder line......

Many people have used concrete blocks for weighting bodies but do they normally use cap blocks? I wonder if this person they intend to question ever worked for the Dermonds, maybe in the construction end or architect end or possibly built their home? Lives on the lake. What would make someone do something like this? being cheated? Feeling cheated? Bad end of some deal? Well, follow the money. And there are other scenarios as well.

Of course Im speculating but we've all questioned this case in this way from the beginning

What are the statistics on these kinds of murders bing someone the victims know?

Just some thoughts
 
watcher9 said:
Since they have the two blocks as evidence, it is presumed they also have the ropes that were tied to them and the type of knots that were used. Were the gasses strong enough to lift up and float the blocks along with the body or just the body with the blocks still lying on the bottom?

It seemed odd to report that MrsD was found in water face down when I thought all bodies in water were found face down? But, when I double checked to be factual, I found that women have a tendency to float face up.

As always center of gravity of an object tends to get closer to the Earth, according to the phenomenon i mentioned above, man floats faced down while women faced up.
http://fouzan.weebly.com/why-a-man-floats-face-down-while-women-are-not-after-drown.html

Did the killer underestimate the weight of the blocks, the length of the rope, or the amount of gasses that would be produced? In any of these cases, could that mean that the killer is a professional or an amateur, familiar or unfamiliar with the lake depth at that spot and something else? Why choose that spot instead of the middle of the lake which I presume would be much deeper?
Click to expand...

Maybe mostly a disguise while dumping the body? As Night fishermen? Was it one or two weeks that went by before she was discovered? I think like SS said, they didn't realize the body would produce gases making the body float, does sound amateurish IMO, so I've said before, they wanted to MAKE IT LOOK like a pro did it, initially with the beheading and confusing the investigation, but now appearing not so pro, or maybe they were, just ASSumed if she floated, she wouldn't be up long but then the tree snagged her

or maybe just didnt' know, but once the body is submerged, it'd be hard to say woops, that didn't work right if it had anthing to do with depth or problems with rope and blocks, apparently that part worked right, but then they'd just have to get out of there but anyone seeing them at night would just think they were fishing and it is very secluded there and very very close to the Lawrence Shoals boatramp, I posted pictures back a ways on this thread

So we're still stuck with the scenario that's it's someone very close to them or they angered someone? Not random
 
east2west said:
Does anyone else remember hearing intially that she was found tethered as well as snagged on some tree limbs that were sticking up from the lake?
Click to expand...

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html

When the Oconee River was flooded to build the lake in the late 1970s, trees were left standing, in part, to create underwater habitats for fish. Dermond’s body was found in 46 feet of water, in a part of the lake where the tops of underwater trees jut close to or above the surface. A source familiar with the investigation told The Telegraph
that the body had been “placed” where it was found. The source did not elaborate.
Click to expand...

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/murdered-elderly-couple-sheriff-says-victims-likel/nf4Tg/

Two fishermen recovered the body of 87-year-old Shirley Dermond — missing for two weeks — Friday afternoon near Wallace Dam in Lake Oconee. She had been dumped in one of the deepest parts of the lake but was discovered hung up in the underwater tree line.
Click to expand...

I don't remember anything stated about a tether. The fact that end cap concrete blocks with no holes were used and not typical concrete blocks with holes makes me think that the idea to submerge Ms. D was not anticipated in an otherwise well planned murder. I also wonder if it would have been a good idea to create a cut from sternum to pubic area on the body to allow gases to escape without causing the body to float, although this sure would have been very messy. Has it ever been stated how either of the D's were dressed?
 
As I thought more about the blocks last night, it occurred to me that they might be used to stabilize the kind of docks that one pulls out in the winter and puts back in in the spring. Or maybe even used as steps down an incline to a dock? A garden bed liner?

If we go by the theory that the killers came and/or left by boat, those blocks had to have been in the boat or nearby. Who would carry those in their boat? The only thing I can think of is a dock repair company or something along those lines. Otherwise, the blocks might have already been right in the Dermonds backyard...
 
Bethanthony said:
As I thought more about the blocks last night, it occurred to me that they might be used to stabilize the kind of docks that one pulls out in the winter and puts back in in the spring. Or maybe even used as steps down an incline to a dock? A garden bed liner?

If we go by the theory that the killers came and/or left by boat, those blocks had to have been in the boat or nearby. Who would carry those in their boat? The only thing I can think of is a dock repair company or something along those lines. Otherwise, the blocks might have already been right in the Dermonds backyard...
Click to expand...

I don't know about this particular body of water. But aren't concrete blocks and cap blocks used for the retaining walls sometimes? Like the picture below. So they could have just grabbed them at the Dermond's or some other retaining wall along the way?
lake7.jpg
 
grateful1 said:
I don't know about this particular body of water. But aren't concrete blocks and cap blocks used for the retaining walls sometimes? Like the picture below. So they could have just grabbed them at the Dermond's or some other retaining wall along the way?
View attachment 69779
Click to expand...

most use wood now for shoreline retaining walls, well on the sinclair side, you see the older ones made of concrete blocks, probably from the 60's or 7'0's, i think, not to say there wasn't some in a yard or loose but I think it was planned and they brought them, I'm still thinking construction Co or construction site

what else might they have used to anchor a body? we usually hear of cinder blocks for such. I don't know about caps for portable docks or how that works, interesting thought but none are usually used on regular dock construction that i am aware of

scott peterson took his cinder blocks with him when he dumped Laci in the bay
 
True Crime Lover said:
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html



http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/murdered-elderly-couple-sheriff-says-victims-likel/nf4Tg/



I don't remember anything stated about a tether. The fact that end cap concrete blocks with no holes were used and not typical concrete blocks with holes makes me think that the idea to submerge Ms. D was not anticipated in an otherwise well planned murder. I also wonder if it would have been a good idea to create a cut from sternum to pubic area on the body to allow gases to escape without causing the body to float, although this sure would have been very messy. Has it ever been stated how either of the D's were dressed?
Click to expand...

I think people used that term as far as anchoring

Mrs D had on "everyday clothing" IIRC, and nothing was ever stated about his attire IIRC, surely wanted to know because it would have possibly indicated time of day, as if, in his PJ's
 
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