GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #10

[NancyA]

So, I spent most of yesterday at a birthday party for one year old twins (who, incidently, will be playing baby Judith on season 5 of Walking Dead).

Playing with the twins and watching my 2 and 4 year old daughters run and play with all the toddlers and small children there... Cooper was on my mind a lot.

It made me wonder though... having children causes your whole social structure to change. We still, of course, have our pre-baby friends (well, most of them) but we've made so many new friends through our children... Some at parks, some at church groups, and a ton from mom's groups that my wife joined online. And then, the friends that were babyless when we had our first have had children and you kind of gravitate back to each other.

My point and question is... Leanna obviously wanted a child. But I wonder if she had a social network of friends with children here that they went out with? Because it can be HARD not having that. When my wife was pregnant with our second, she was on bedrest for the last 3 1/2 months. I actually stopped working to stay home and take care of her and our then 1 1/2 year old. And it was hard because while I would take my oldest to the park and stuff it was difficult to try and plan things with other because of taking care of my wife's needs.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than even though you are a parent you still need some kind of release. Even if you are at work w/o your child all week... you still need to have adult release time and the best way to do it is with other couples with children.

Does anyone get where I'm going with this? I'm not saying I would murder my kids if I didn't have that release... but I know it's hard w/o it.

I get you. There is an awful lot of pressure these days, it seems to me, for parents to be the perfect parents 24/7 where taking the time to be persons in their own right is almost frowned upon. It's like parents are expected to totally subsume their identity in parenthood - and not judging or condemning the whole trend toward attachment parenting, whatever works for whoever - to the exclusion of all else. I too think it is healthy for adults to have time and interests outside of parenting.

 

[PigPong]

Uhhhh....no. First of all, IF the car does not have a system installed to safeguard the dog the A/C could fail or the car could stall, both of which creates a deadly hot car situation. With a system installed the windows automatically drop and a beeper goes off to let the officer/handler know the dog needs assistance because the car is becoming too hot.

Secondly they do not know "how to get out", there are NO provisions or lessons to teach those dogs how to get out. There have been MANY cases of police K9's dying in hot cars, and even a horrid case of a police k9 left in the car in the garage when the officer left for a "long weekend". The dog desperately destroyed the entire interior of the car as she tried to escape.

The K9 "hot 'n pop" units I spoke of DO have an automatic rear door opener to release the dog with the press of a handler's button so the dog can assist the officer without having the door manually opened, but that action is originated by the handler NOT the dog.

The death of a police K9 in "15 minutes" seems mighty suspicious to me, likely the dog was in the car for much longer than 15 minutes.

My uncles best friend in Pittsburgh trains K's and officers to work with them. I've never met an officer who didn't think of his dog as another child because the dogs are as dependent on them as much as they need the dog. But, just like parents, sometime people just shouldn't be responsible for another living thing. And accidents are rare, overall, I believe.

My understanding too is that the release of the doors is controlled by the officer.

 

[daisy7]

Uhhhh....no. First of all, IF the car does not have a system installed to safeguard the dog the A/C could fail or the car could stall, both of which creates a deadly hot car situation. With a system installed the windows automatically drop and a beeper goes off to let the officer/handler know the dog needs assistance because the car is becoming too hot.

Secondly they do not know "how to get out", there are NO provisions or lessons to teach those dogs how to get out. There have been MANY cases of police K9's dying in hot cars, and even a horrid case of a police k9 left in the car in the garage when the officer left for a "long weekend". The dog desperately destroyed the entire interior of the car as she tried to escape.

The K9 "hot 'n pop" units I spoke of DO have an automatic rear door opener to release the dog with the press of a handler's button so the dog can assist the officer without having the door manually opened, but that action is originated by the handler NOT the dog.

The death of a police K9 in "15 minutes" seems mighty suspicious to me, likely the dog was in the car for much longer than 15 minutes.

Maybe I misunderstood the officer who did a demonstration at my son's boy scout meeting. But, he told us that the dog was trained on how to get out and demonstrated it. I didn't see him press a release for the car but maybe he did. The dog came into the school cafeteria nicely and he told us he could had given a different command and the dog would have come in "on alert." I'm just stating what I have seen personally seen and LE definitely leave the dogs in the car with the car on (actually, a lot of them leave their cars running and locked, whether or not they have a dog -- I guess they have 2 keys).

On the dog topic, I have to share something that happened in my town a few weeks ago -- I still can't believe someone would do this! I have a friend who works at my local hospital and he told me about this. Apparently, a man who was visiting his wife in the hospital brought his dog with him and left him in his hot truck while he went to visit to visit his wife. He was worried about his dog getting too hot in his truck and instead of just leaving him at home, he put the dog in a cooler covered in ice (a small dog). By the time, someone saw the dog in the cooler, it was barely breathing and almost frozen to death. They brought the dog into the ER and worked on him, until an emergency vet arrived. LE was called and took the guy off to jail. The dog is thankfully, fine. Unbelievable!!!

IMO, MOO.

 

[JudyBolton]

This is cracking me up. This is my first post ever and it's about the ac in the south. I live in Georgia. I'm pretty sure that's the real South. I'm 48 and lived here all my life, as have my parents, and I have always rolled the windows down and opened the sunroof for 2 minutes at the very most, just to let the steamy hot air out, then close everything back up. My dad taught me.

Hope I did this right. I was wondering how to post the smileys, and now I know!

WELCOME!!! There seems to be several Ga. posters - especially concerning this story! Keep posting..... I agree 100% with you - and it was probably my dad's example that taught me that, too. It makes sense - when the air outside is cooler - your AC will cool faster if the air is cooler - even if it's only 10 or 20 degrees cooler.

 

[CrazytownUSA]

From the article linked:
In 2010, The Home Depot was ranked No. 29 on the Fortune 500 U.S. list.

Yes, they are ranked 29 on the Fortune 500 list, which makes them a Fortune 50 company

I'm not sure why this has been such a source of confusion for people... Companies in the top 50 are very proud to call themselves Fortune 50 rather than Fortune 500, but obviously they are on both lists :scared:

 

[daisy7]

Peeps - I started a timeline thread, so please go and help fill in the blanks. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?249061-Timeline-of-Events-June-18-2014

 

[CrazytownUSA]

I sure hope we gets some new details soon. When we are having dozens of pages on "rolling down windows vs AC" and "is it a picture on the lamp or a reflection", "inside the home vs outside the home", I think it shows how desperate we are for new info :floorlaugh:

 

[Linda7NJ]

......

 

[Yellow]

Anyone have an idea of when the baby died? How long would it have taken for him in the hot car? By 11am? If so then dad probably expected him dead at lunch, I find it odd that dad had someone drive him to his car, almost like he wanted to find the child and create an audience. Why not just get out of the car with everyone else and walk to your own car? The parking lot could not have been that big....really how lazy can you be not to walk to your own car? Also, who puts bulbs in a hot car? I would be afraid they would burst in the heat.

 

[tlcya]

I agree yellow, I think he wanted his lunch pals to witness him discovering Cooper. Per testimony at the hearing the friends drove off immediately and were not there to witness him open his car door.

 

[Camdenres]

As I snuggled in bed watching cartoons with my 3 year old granddaughter this morning the thought of that sweet boy suffering a horrible death almost takes my breath away.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Re: the choking. I feel that it is possible that RH saw Cooper struggling and choking at noon, and turned and walked away. I feel that he distanced himself from the death by saying, I didn't know he was dead, I just thought he was choking. This has been nagging at me for a while and it is my opinion.

I figured he used the choking comment because baby Cooper was bluish when he was removed from the car. Moron didn't think rescue personnel would notice the baby was in rigor . :banghead:

 

[tlcya]

Agreed CHERIE. That whole having to wait til after work really threw a monkey wrench into his whole plan.

:cow:

 

[JLSChook]

Re: the choking. I feel that it is possible that RH saw Cooper struggling and choking at noon, and turned and walked away. I feel that he distanced himself from the death by saying, I didn't know he was dead, I just thought he was choking. This has been nagging at me for a while and it is my opinion.

The ME (through Stoddard), said that Cooper had most likely passed away by noon. The defendant didn't get back to his car until around 12:30. In those temps, I really don't think he saw Cooper alive after leaving him in the morning.

If the choking thing is true, it's just another lie he made up to make it look like Cooper had just (at that time) started having troubles. I hate him.

 

[NancyA]

I figured he used the choking comment because baby Cooper was bluish when he was removed from the car. Moron didn't think rescue personnel would notice the baby was in rigor . :banghead:

I think moron is dead on. That coupled with sheer arrogance in assuming the authorities would just go along with the 'hot death in car accident' scenario has been his undoing - thank goodness. He's also stupid enough to think a jury will acquit him if he insists on going to trial I believe so I don't think he'll be willing to plead it out - more fool him.

 

[lawstudent]

It is possible the child was sleeping on the way in (which seems to often be the case in deaths that were actually accidental). But if he were awake, there are definitely parents who would talk non-stop to that child, and some who would ignore them. I notice it more and more. I was raised by a very involved mother who talked and explained things to me constantly when I was learning to talk, and she had a similar mother. When I'm around kids, I do the same. It only seems natural to me. We even do it with my dog, and she understands a strange amount of language and interaction - it is noticeable in me, my siblings, and the dog that we were very much interacted with it. But I regularly see children being pushed around in those massive day care strollers with no one saying a word to them about what they see on the walk - not at all disparaging daycare, but just a recent example. I see parents do the same thing - take the baby for a walk and not talk to it, and most dog owners are the same way. I know if the child can't have a conversation yet, and a dog can't talk, many parents see it as pointless. But to people raised differently, it seems bizarre and brings out judgement. I bet people here who were raised in that "constant chatter", or who engage in it with their own kids, would be pretty judgmental of someone who drove into work on the phone never talking to the child, which then greatly increases the chance of forgetting about it. I think many others would see it as normal, pre or post-cell phone era. Children are seen and not heard, etc. Not saying "constant chatter" parents are better, as I don't even think it's necessarily a conscious choice but just your personality that leads to it, but it probably makes it a lot harder to make such a mistake. I think they are often much more nervous by nature, too, which causes them to double check everything.

 

[T4Tide]

For me its their conversation and the way they both acted before this added together that makes using the past tense a problem. The past tense word implies he had time to dread what Cooper would look like before he found Cooper.

Exactly. I think hearing him say, "I can't get the way he looked out of my mind" would be more natural. I wouldn't have time to dread how my baby looked. My mind would be on saving him and praying with all my might he was alive. (In a true accident.)

 

[Kip]

Agree on the dreaded statement in any tense.

To dread something is to be apprehensive about something which is to have knowledge of something coming (here, Cooper's appearance in death). I imagine if the detectives were chewing gum like LH likes to do, they probably swallowed it when they heard that statement. That combined with "did you say too much," probably caused a small impromptu heimlich maneuver convention behind the two-way glass with gum flying like bullets at the OK Corral.

I don't think dreading something necessarily implies knowledge - just suspicion. I dread getting envelopes from the IRS (even though they sometimes contain a check).

I posted earlier about going to check on my SIL when we couldn't reach her. When I saw both her cars outside, I knew she must be home. I was hoping her phones were malunctioning (though very unlikely that both would malfunction at once), thinking maybe she was alive and lying on the floor, and dreading....

I dreaded opening the front door, afraid that I might smell decomp.

When that didn't happen and I saw her in bed and she didn't respond to my voice, I dreaded approaching to find what I knew must be true.

If I had accidentally left my child in the car, when I got in and realized he was there, I think I would simultaneously be hoping he was okay and dreading looking at him to see what I had done. I think the Irvine prof who left his son in the car and found people, police, and EMTs around his car when he returned to it, probably dreaded looking at his son.

I fully think RH left Cooper in the car seat on purpose, and I think when talking to LH, he meant what we're all thinking when he said he dreaded looking at Cooper -- I just don't think the use of the past tense would influence me as a juror, as IMO, a parent who had accidentally left their child in the car could easily say something similar.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think moron is dead on. That coupled with sheer arrogance in assuming the authorities would just go along with the 'hot death in car accident' scenario has been his undoing - thank goodness. He's also stupid enough to think a jury will acquit him if he insists on going to trial I believe so I don't think he'll be willing to plead it out - more fool him.

He is one criminal who thought he did the right research.
He will get his up-commings in prison. I hate this guy!

 

[Baznme]

I don't get the uproar about the use of past tense either.

Because it reveals he already knew what the baby might look like. Just as in the Haleigh Cummings case when the father said "she "was" the best little girl a father could have. "WAS"? Then he dropped to his knees in tears partially because he realized what he had just said. Using terms in the past tense when discussing the possibility of your child's death reveals frame of mind.