GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #2

[popsicle]

I can't speak about every case were children are forgotten and die in cars but the ones I have heard about.... the parent has found them when they return to the car or at some point during the day. I have never heard of the person driving a distance and then discovering the child. I think he drove a ways to try and air out the car possibly? That the car smelled so badly after paramedics arrived and the doors had been opened awhile and yet people want to assert that maybe he didn't smell it right away is just ludicrous imo.

 

[Chewy]

This little girl died in FL June 16. Her core temp was 109° at the ER.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/20/girl-dies-hot-car/11087783/

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

See, this is what drives me crazy. I know people think it's cruel to prosecute the parents no matter what, but I do think that we need to change the way we deal with these accidents. Judges are allowed to set the sentencing and I think if a parent truly accidentally forgot their child (even though I loathe that idea) they would not receive a harsh sentence in court. Perhaps 2 years of probation and a year of community service. Those parents who truly did forget would not mind IMO that sort of sentence, it would almost be a penance for their loss.

But the system needs to be changed so that murderers don't get a free pass on these crimes. In most of the cases the parents are never charged because "they have suffered enough" and it's always creeped me out to think that a murderer who wants to get rid of their child has a very easy way to do it. If that same murderer knew that they would be prosecuted and have their day in court and potentially face life in prison, they would think twice about doing it.

The same thing with kids who drown in swimming pools. How hard would it be to just toss your baby in the pool right around the time a phone call happens, walk inside the house and chat for ten minutes and then freak out on the phone running outside, "OH my god!!!"

We're making it too easy to commit murder. That's why it has to change. This guy got caught, but I bet he's not the only one who did it on purpose.

Many parents who wait to have children suddenly feel like their lives are turned upside down and they can't adjust and are overwhelmed by it all. It is very easy to me to see someone who pinned so much hope on having children be completely blindsided by the reality of it and "wish things could go back to the way it was before."

Prosecuting ALL parents would protect potential victims.

The more I think about how the dad was described as acting, I don't think he did his homework.
IF he planned this for what ever reason thinking he could walk away with no charges. ...
I don't think he realized that his son would be in rigors when he took him from the seat. I think at that very moment he realized it was over for him. There wasn't going to be any way to make an explanation for any of it.
He was pitching a fit for himself. He was panic stricken realizing he had just had his last day of freedom.
I really wish an eye for an eye applied.
Plop him in that car strap him down and park it in the sun.
I am so heartbroken for this baby!

I don't know about the state of rigors for him being the moment of realization and relating to his response and behavior. IMO if he did do this we can evaluate what was probably going on.

Keep in mind that if he did plan this, he intended to find the boy dead in the car at lunch (was it noon? Just checking) If he intended to do this, he's probably read newspaper articles or stories about this happening before and in those articles they usually put a chart that shows how hot the car gets on the INSIDE when the weather outside is a certain temperature. In most of these stories they suggest that death will happen pretty quickly, like within an hour. So he probably figured 3 hours was plenty of time.

I'd be interested in knowing what the temperature was that week and if it had spiked the day of the death. If it did, it's a clue to me that he was waiting for the right opportunity.

He goes to work and the plan is to bring something down to the car at lunch and make a horrible discovery. But he gets down there and the baby is still alive. Choking but still alive. Now he knows he screwed but he's at the point of no return. He can't call 911 right then, because if he does he could potentially be left with a brain damaged or physically impaired child to care for for the rest of his life. So now that he's come to the car and will leave it again he's pretty much going to be busted. And he knows it.

How to get out of it? He googles the animal dying in the car and then realizes he can't run out again because it's too soon. So he waits and decides to make the discovery somewhere else to try to draw attention away from the parking lot. But he knows by then that there is a real chance he's going to get caught. He made a mistake. He should have waited longer.

Now all he can do is stick to the story that he forgot and hope it will still work in court. It's the only chance he has.

One more thing I'd like to add, even though a bowl movement is not a 100 percent in a dying child, I would think the nature of the death with a child hysterial crying and in stress, after eating food, would definitely cause a bowl movement.

I am not convinced it was purely accidental. He ate breakfast with his 2 yr old son, and yet 4 minutes later, he has no awareness that the child is with him in the car? How does that happen?

And just to play devil's advocate for a second. It is possible IMO that he could have forgotten if the child simply quieted down. Most kids do make a lot of noise in the car but that's usually when there are other kids next to them or they've been strapped in a really long time. Cooper could have remained silent after being strapped in and the father could have gotten his mind wires crossed if he didn't normally go to breakfast.

Ex. Routine is

A. put Cooper in the car seat
B take Cooper out of the car seat at day care


If he didn't normally make the stop he may have subconsciously clicked into the routine "I put Cooper into the car and I've taken him out once" and just blanked on the putting him back in again.

He MAY have forgotten, it's possible. I just don't think that he wouldn't have noticed him when he came down to the car at noon.

I can't speak about every case were children are forgotten and die in cars but the ones I have heard about.... the parent has found them when they return to the car or at some point during the day. I have never heard of the person driving a distance and then discovering the child. I think he drove a ways to try and air out the car possibly? That the car smelled so badly after paramedics arrived and the doors had been opened awhile and yet people want to assert that maybe he didn't smell it right away is just ludicrous imo.

BBM

This is a very interesting observation. I wonder if there's a computer program in the car that could show whether the windows had been rolled down? If there is, this is something law enforcement could use as evidence as well. I hope they think to investigate it.

 

[newone]

I am not convinced it was purely accidental. He ate breakfast with his 2 yr old son, and yet 4 minutes later, he has no awareness that the child is with him in the car? How does that happen?

no kidding!!

Attention deficit disorder ??? or what -- short of a stroke or a seizure what could happen to an adult that would make them forget their child with whom they just had breakfast??

 

[newone]

who wants to sign my petition

fatal incidents with children left in cars =automatic jail time?

 

[newone]

See, this is what drives me crazy. I know people think it's cruel to prosecute the parents no matter what, but I do think that we need to change the way we deal with these accidents. Judges are allowed to set the sentencing and I think if a parent truly accidentally forgot their child (even though I loathe that idea) they would not receive a harsh sentence in court. Perhaps 2 years of probation and a year of community service. Those parents who truly did forget would not mind IMO that sort of sentence, it would almost be a penance for their loss.

But the system needs to be changed so that murderers don't get a free pass on these crimes. In most of the cases the parents are never charged because "they have suffered enough" and it's always creeped me out to think that a murderer who wants to get rid of their child has a very easy way to do it. If that same murderer knew that they would be prosecuted and have their day in court and potentially face life in prison, they would think twice about doing it.

The same thing with kids who drown in swimming pools. How hard would it be to just toss your baby in the pool right around the time a phone call happens, walk inside the house and chat for ten minutes and then freak out on the phone running outside, "OH my god!!!"

We're making it too easy to commit murder. That's why it has to change. This guy got caught, but I bet he's not the only one who did it on purpose.

Many parents who wait to have children suddenly feel like their lives are turned upside down and they can't adjust and are overwhelmed by it all. It is very easy to me to see someone who pinned so much hope on having children be completely blindsided by the reality of it and "wish things could go back to the way it was before."

Prosecuting ALL parents would protect potential victims.


I don't know about the state of rigors for him being the moment of realization and relating to his response and behavior. IMO if he did do this we can evaluate what was probably going on.

Keep in mind that if he did plan this, he intended to find the boy dead in the car at lunch (was it noon? Just checking) If he intended to do this, he's probably read newspaper articles or stories about this happening before and in those articles they usually put a chart that shows how hot the car gets on the INSIDE when the weather outside is a certain temperature. In most of these stories they suggest that death will happen pretty quickly, like within an hour. So he probably figured 3 hours was plenty of time.

I'd be interested in knowing what the temperature was that week and if it had spiked the day of the death. If it did, it's a clue to me that he was waiting for the right opportunity.

He goes to work and the plan is to bring something down to the car at lunch and make a horrible discovery. But he gets down there and the baby is still alive. Choking but still alive. Now he knows he screwed but he's at the point of no return. He can't call 911 right then, because if he does he could potentially be left with a brain damaged or physically impaired child to care for for the rest of his life. So now that he's come to the car and will leave it again he's pretty much going to be busted. And he knows it.

How to get out of it? He googles the animal dying in the car and then realizes he can't run out again because it's too soon. So he waits and decides to make the discovery somewhere else to try to draw attention away from the parking lot. But he knows by then that there is a real chance he's going to get caught. He made a mistake. He should have waited longer.

Now all he can do is stick to the story that he forgot and hope it will still work in court. It's the only chance he has.

One more thing I'd like to add, even though a bowl movement is not a 100 percent in a dying child, I would think the nature of the death with a child hysterial crying and in stress, after eating food, would definitely cause a bowl movement.

And just to play devil's advocate for a second. It is possible IMO that he could have forgotten if the child simply quieted down. Most kids do make a lot of noise in the car but that's usually when there are other kids next to them or they've been strapped in a really long time. Cooper could have remained silent after being strapped in and the father could have gotten his mind wires crossed if he didn't normally go to breakfast.

Ex. Routine is

A. put Cooper in the car seat
B take Cooper out of the car seat at day care


If he didn't normally make the stop he may have subconsciously clicked into the routine "I put Cooper into the car and I've taken him out once" and just blanked on the putting him back in again.

He MAY have forgotten, it's possible. I just don't think that he wouldn't have noticed him when he came down to the car at noon.

bbm

that's where change could occur -- if we treat this issue with same level of zero tolerance as we have with drinking and driving

a fatality associated with abandoning a child in a hot car =automatic jail time

 

[Chewy]

I don't think automatic jail time would work. I think automatic prosecution would work because then it's going to be evaluated in a court.

Anything to do with drownings in swimming pools and babies left in a car. Automatic prosecution for negligence and manslaughter.

If it truly truly was an accident the evidence will bear this out. I spoke to a friend of mine the other day who was quite sympathetic to parents who forget because her husband went through a grueling series of treatments before he died from liver failure. She was pregnant when he first got sick and overnight became a single mom for all intents and purposes, she had to continue to work full time and also run back and forth to the hospital and take care of a baby all on her own.

SHE I could see forgetting her child. She mentioned that she felt she could have easily done it.

I wouldn't want someone in her situation to get automatic jail time if god forbid it had happened to her.

But prosecution would lay all the extenuating circumstances out for the court to see.

 

[momshrink]

I've been lurking, but am jumping in now. We may never know the motive, but I'm wondering if Dad did thisas revenge for something Mom did or said. For example did Mom threaten to leave Dad or did Mom confess an affair? I'm not suggesting these things actually happened, but this would be the ultimate hurt and pain for Mom. I keep thinking about LE telling Dad to watch his mouth.

 

[newone]

I don't think automatic jail time would work. I think automatic prosecution would work because then it's going to be evaluated in a court.

Anything to do with drownings in swimming pools and babies left in a car. Automatic prosecution for negligence and manslaughter.

If it truly truly was an accident the evidence will bear this out. I spoke to a friend of mine the other day who was quite sympathetic to parents who forget because her husband went through a grueling series of treatments before he died from liver failure. She was pregnant when he first got sick and overnight became a single mom for all intents and purposes, she had to continue to work full time and also run back and forth to the hospital and take care of a baby all on her own.

SHE I could see forgetting her child. She mentioned that she felt she could have easily done it.

I wouldn't want someone in her situation to get automatic jail time if god forbid it had happened to her.

But prosecution would lay all the extenuating circumstances out for the court to see.

point well taken....I just want an end to ''I forgot" -- kids are not to be forgotten
we don't, as a society, cut anyone slack for knocking back too many gins & tonic even under your friend's situation or
anyone experiencing horrible stress so respectfully why would we cut them slack for leaving their child strapped helplessly in an suv in hot weather.

 

[oh_gal]

Now I'm confuzzled.
How can the manner be considered consistent with homicide?
anyone??

My uneducated guess would be that a homicide is a death caused by another person with some level of intent (as opposed to a suicide) or vs. an accident. Obviously, it wasn't a suicide..which leave either a homicide or accident. LE must have some evidence to support intent, which would rule out accident.

 

[Chewy]

I remember watching a Dateline or 48 Hours case about someone they convicted of murder. One of the reasons they were able to do it is because the accused made a statement about the victim (who had been shot I think) making "gurgling sounds" upon discovery. When they examined the body it was clear that the victim had been dead for hours prior to discovery. Only someone who was present at the time of death would know that they had made those noises, it was one of the bits of evidence they used to convict him.

If in examining Cooper's body, they discover that he choked prior to his death (vomit in the esophagus etc) and that upon discovery Cooper had been dead for hours, this would also indicate to me that when the father returned to the car he heard him choking and closed the door and walked away.

Then he mentions hearing "choking" sounds in the back of the car which caused him to pull over. As soon as he says this to the cops, and the experienced cops immediately recognizing that the boy had been dead for a long time, it would immediately raise a red flag and show that the father was lying. It may be why they arrested him immediately. I think this might be a bit of evidence that will help convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[newone]

I remember watching a Dateline or 48 Hours case about someone they convicted of murder. One of the reasons they were able to do it is because the accused made a statement about the victim (who had been shot I think) making "gurgling sounds" upon discovery. When they examined the body it was clear that the victim had been dead for hours prior to discovery. Only someone who was present at the time of death would know that they had made those noises, it was one of the bits of evidence they used to convict him.

If in examining Cooper's body, they discover that he choked prior to his death (vomit in the esophagus etc) and that upon discovery Cooper had been dead for hours, this would also indicate to me that when the father returned to the car he heard him choking and closed the door and walked away.

Then he mentions hearing "choking" sounds in the back of the car which caused him to pull over. As soon as he says this to the cops, and the experienced cops immediately recognizing that the boy had been dead for a long time, it would immediately raise a red flag and show that the father was lying. It may be why they arrested him immediately. I think this might be a bit of evidence that will help convict beyond a reasonable doubt.[/QUOTE]

wow! that's interesting....thank you

 

[Threeplus1]

In catching up this morning, someone upthread posted about the possibility of dad driving to the mall in an attempt to air out the vehicle. Hadn't seen that posted before as a suggestion, but that's certainly a possibility. Of course, since the first officers on scene said the smell was undeniably strong, if that was part of his plan, it didn't work.

 

[Judicious1]

But an obituary is to honor the dead, not a defense strategy. This is a tiny boy who isn't getting a proper moment to be honored. It's a campaign for the man in jail and a solicitation for funds. The precious boy is an afterthought. I too hope they find peace, but they get no respect from me for using his obituary the way they did.

Omg I would not go as far as to say they "campaigned" for the dad. I get your anger at him but can we not ease up on the rest of the family dealing with this little guys death. Unless you have had to write your little child's obit I don't think its right to judge. I also think some are reading way to much into their words. Did anyone really expect them not to reference the boys dad? I hope this subject doesn't go on for pages because I don't feel its right to attack the family who are all victims here!

 

[Linda7NJ]

I may be way out in left field here but I am hopeful that this horrid incident will put ''leaving your kid in a car'' on a par with drinking while impaired...ZERO TOLERANCE....



I brought up the pet reference because of the internet search....we don't know enough do we ....but too coinky dink for me at this point...but I guess a defense attorney could say he was thinking of family pet safety -- we'll see.

Exactly like "Chlorophyll"...???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[popsicle]

I remember watching a Dateline or 48 Hours case about someone they convicted of murder. One of the reasons they were able to do it is because the accused made a statement about the victim (who had been shot I think) making "gurgling sounds" upon discovery. When they examined the body it was clear that the victim had been dead for hours prior to discovery. Only someone who was present at the time of death would know that they had made those noises, it was one of the bits of evidence they used to convict him.

If in examining Cooper's body, they discover that he choked prior to his death (vomit in the esophagus etc) and that upon discovery Cooper had been dead for hours, this would also indicate to me that when the father returned to the car he heard him choking and closed the door and walked away.

Then he mentions hearing "choking" sounds in the back of the car which caused him to pull over. As soon as he says this to the cops, and the experienced cops immediately recognizing that the boy had been dead for a long time, it would immediately raise a red flag and show that the father was lying. It may be why they arrested him immediately. I think this might be a bit of evidence that will help convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

I remember that case but not the name of the victim or the perp.

 

[Judicious1]

Copper is the only victim. There are NO other victims and saying anything else is so disrespectful of the true victim it's sick! Truly sick!

family of victims are often referred to and treated as victims. This poor mother lost her child in a unimaginable way. In my mind she is a victim and it is more disrespectful to not treat her as such.

 

[Karmady]

Yes, I can think of a reason. The prosecution wants to use it as evidence in court, and not bias the jury ahead of time.

If that were true, they wouldn't have mentioned it at all. Instead, they put it out there with only the implication that the search was done on the day of the child's death or shortly before hand. If you're going to say he did the search, there's no reason whatsoever not to say when he did the search. jmo

 

[CrazytownUSA]

In reading the obit, I didn't find any of it campaigning... while reading it, I thought of a mother grieving the unimaginable, the loss of her baby, and speaking for both her and Cooper's father. I found it to be very sweet and very raw with emotion. I didn't see them asking for donations... it is VERY common in obituaries for families to request an "in lieu of flowers" donation. The Homer Fund is paying for Cooper's funeral, and from what I've seen, is a wonderful foundation, so I don't find it odd that they asked people to donate to that fund, in lieu of flowers, to give back to a foundation that had helped them so much. I really don't understand anyone finding issue with the obit... it was a beautiful tribute to a baby boy gone way too soon.

 

[Patience]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/25864933/sources-toddler-death
Funeral arrangements are set for 22-month-old Cooper Harris who died after being left in a hot car.

Services will be at 1:00 p.m. Saturday, June 28, 2014, at University Church of Christ.

A private family burial will be held with Tuscaloosa Memorial Chapel Funeral Home directing. Visitation will be Saturday one hour prior to services at the church.

On Wednesday, Cobb County investigators revealed more about the case. Father Justin Ross Harris is accused of leaving the 22-month-old alone in the car while he went to work at the Home Depot corporate office for roughly seven hours.

Harris is charged with felony murder and cruelty to child in the second degree. He is being held in the Cobb County Detention Center without bond.

 

[Judicious1]

If that were true, they wouldn't have mentioned it at all. Instead, they put it out there with only the implication that the search was done on the day of the child's death or shortly before hand. If you're going to say he did the search, there's no reason whatsoever not to say when he did the search. jmo

They most likely have to have experts do a deeper investigation to build a timeline to show he had accessed stuff before and after the search to show it couldn't have been anyone else searching. There are also ways to confirm the exact date and time the search was done. Knowing it was done is just step one. The rest of it takes time to determine. It almost seems like they discovered this in his browsing history...which would explain how they found it so fast. If he clicked on a link from Facebook or an email then its not as important to the case like it would be had he typed it into Google or Bing.