GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[Ladylub]

I was on the fence until I started hearing all the tidbits of info.

Cooper loved car rides, he would tell the other cars hi and bye. In a short time period Cooper left one parking lot and got into another that would have been all sort of excitement. Yet Cooper must not have talked ( or maybe dad had selective hearing that day where he only heard Cooper choking and not hearing Cooper speak to cars)

The dad went to his car at lunch time and still did not see Cooper. The car seat also did not strike anything in him like that's Cooper ..oh no Cooper.

Dad goes to his car after work sits next to his Cooper's dead body. Reports state the smell was horrible and he still does not think Oh No Cooper. Or at the very least did I forget a Cooper diaper in here... Oh no Cooper.

Then he tells witnesses his son was choking. Well he was not choking b/c he was already dead so why say choking and if you can not see in the backseat to know Cooper was there how did he see him then?

I have looked it up child death due to being left in cars when it seemed to be happening so often one yr. Difference is I searched for child deaths being left in cars not temp that caused the deaths. I did not feel like I needed to now the temp it occurred at. The fact that is happens is enough for me.

With the wife also saying she looked it up as well it seems like it was some what of a fear for both of them. Why were there no precautions taking place? When my husband's routine it changed a tiny bit like dropping the kids off at school I still send a text telling him to send a text/or call to let me know the kids made it to school and he made it to work safely.

All that by itself maybe not a red flag but them all together that red flag has smacked me a few times its getting so big now.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Hi everybody. I've been lurking for awhile but this is my first post. I'm a little behind so I apologize if this has already been covered but there's one thing that's been on my mind that so far I haven't seen anybody bring up.

I'm thinking about possible defense strategies. IMO the facts lead to premeditated. The only thing I can see going for the defense at this point is character witnesses that say he was a great dad. Personally, if I were the prosecutor I would turn that against him. The fact that everybody around him has so many great things to say about his parenting shows me that he didn't just forget his son. A great parent puts their child first, no matter what. He has spent almost 2 years being a great parent. That would be his routine, it would come naturally to him to NOT forget his child. Added to the facts of this case and I fully believe that fact goes against him, not for him, when looked at deeper than just the surface. JMO

:welcome4: :wagon: arty:

 

[Figuring]

yeah, except that'sthe totally wrong uncle maddio's. :facepalm:

Ok I found what you meant--please see my edited post and reply. Sorry for the error!

 

[atthelake]

<SNIP>

(ps. I made a Google map, but don’t know how to share it here???)

If you hit "quote" a reply button will appear above the screen you type in. You hit the button that thas the world with an infinity symbol underneath and it will allow you to link what you have created.

If you want to share the picture, and you only have on your computer right now, an option is to upload it to your albums first, then post it by clicking on the icon button in the quote screen that has the mountains in it. I did that for the Dermond threads as I'm not one who uploads my photos to photobucket etc.

2 options I know of HTH

 

[Suthrnqt]

If you hit "quote" a reply button will appear above the screen you type in. You hit the button that thas the world with an infinity symbol underneath and it will allow you to link what you have created.

If you want to share the picture, and you only have on your computer right now, an option is to upload it to your albums first, then post it by clicking on the icon button in the quote screen that has the mountains in it. I did that for the Dermond threads as I'm not one who uploads my photos to photobucket etc.

2 options I know of HTH

Hey ATL!! :seeya:

 

[newone]

ITA! If the dad had smoked or snorted something that morning it might help explain some of his "forgetfulness."

or even Rx medicine like sleeping pills, etc or diet meds,

 

[CarmelEyesD]

If everything researched on hyperthermia says the chilld would be red, why did a witness(s) say the child was blue. Would that indicate he had already been dead? before the hyperthermia? Or perhaps he did choke and expire- before the heat got to him?

 

[newone]

I don't understand the point. Sorry.

What they hope for? No. Prosecutors are supposed to charge what they can prove. That is their public trust. But even if they don't always follow that, which they often don't, imo, it's still pretty unusual to charge a first degree crime with a death penalty attached and back off it within days. Especially when the backing off is accompanied by the public release of some of the evidence due to public outcry. There's no question in my mind that the way this case was handled is questionable and may ultimately impact the outcome of the trial, if there is one. jmo



your quote was about the release of evidence having an impact on public opinion. I suggest that both sides of the fence were affected



With regard to the online petition (which was withdrawn same day evidence was brought to light about online search) the following comment was made about withdrawing the online petition:

"I still pray that this was truly an accident. If that is the case, the DA now knows that the community does not want Justin prosecuted on murder charges," the statement read.

Read On ABC News Radio: http://abcnewsradioonline.com/natio...elp-georgia-dad-who-killed.html#ixzz366eGQoHB

 

[newone]

If everything researched on hyperthermia says the chi;ld would be red, why did a witness(s) say the child was blue. Would that indicate he had already been dead? before the hyperthermia? Or perhaps he did choke and expire- before the heat got to him?

on the first thread there is a detailed outline of the timeline of physical changes post mortem ((be warned maybe unsettling if you are squeamish))

from what I remember - it meant he had passed sometime before that according to the chart on rigor

 

[Karmady]

What they hope for? No. Prosecutors are supposed to charge what they can prove. That is their public trust. But even if they don't always follow that, which they often don't, imo, it's still pretty unusual to charge a first degree crime with a death penalty attached and back off it within days. Especially when the backing off is accompanied by the public release of some of the evidence due to public outcry. There's no question in my mind that the way this case was handled is questionable and may ultimately impact the outcome of the trial, if there is one. jmo



your quote was about the release of evidence having an impact on public opinion. I suggest that both sides of the fence were affected



With regard to the online petition (which was withdrawn same day evidence was brought to light about online search) the following comment was made about withdrawing the online petition:

"I still pray that this was truly an accident. If that is the case, the DA now knows that the community does not want Justin prosecuted on murder charges," the statement read.

Read On ABC News Radio: http://abcnewsradioonline.com/natio...elp-georgia-dad-who-killed.html#ixzz366eGQoHB

Still not sure what you mean. But in an attempt to clarify, I think the release of the information swayed public opinion in favor of the prosecution. Which would be why the petitioners would have backed off their public support. jmo

 

[JSR]

Blue, then why go to trial? Sincerely, I really mean that. Why bother with a trial if everything needed to send him for life in prison/death penalty is already fully known and agreed to by all parties?

He's already admitted he left his baby in the car all day in the heat, and now the baby has died.

Those facts are not in question, at all, and if all you need are those facts everyone would agree he's guilty as charged.

But that's why we have juries. So they can look at it and see mitigating factors. He has not pled guilty to the crime - but has in fact, agreed that he's guilty of the very minimal tenets of the crime he's being charged with.

This is where juries come in. And sometimes, they go all the way to a "jury pardon" - meaning yes he's guilty as charged but due to the circumstances shouldn't be punished to that degree.

Whether they admit it or not, jurors if this comes to trial will be considering intent.

Wow if potential jury members or seated jury members even consider things such as "shouldn't be punished to that degree" then they have absolutely ZERO business being seated on a jury. Unless juries are being charged with deciding the sentence of a defendant they have already convicted the punishment is NOT to be considered while deliberating, like at all. During the guilt/innocence phase no "mitigating factors" should ever be considered only the evidence presented and if they fulfill the requirements of the charge against the defendant.

And if intent is not mentioned in the jury instructions then they are not allowed to consider it. Luckily this case isn't in FL so let's hope the jury in this case actually follows the law and does what they are supposed to do!

 

[JSR]

The charges are certainly effective in being able to put someone away who had no intent of harming his child! I don't think that's "brilliant" I think that's horrific. That someone could be sent to death for a crime the legal system doesn't think they intended to happen.

In my opinion, honestly, to be convicted of a crime it should have to be proven there's intent.

Isn't that what all this hubub is about on this board with this sad case? Those who firmly believe it was his INTENT to harm that child?

So why not make that a part of this criminal prosecution process? PROVE intent - or at least make it a requirement of the charge.

I also don't celebrate when people are used as "examples", of when prosecutors purposely charge someone with the MOST they think they can "make stick" and so there's bargaining room. I think people should be charged fairly, for what they did, and not more than that.

In your line of thinking only people with intent to kill should be "punished" and sent to jail. What about situations where two thugs go into a home to rob a home. While there things get out of hand and one of the men kills the entire family. Both men did not enter the home with the intention to kill but nonetheless a whole family was killed. The way the law is most states both men would be charged with felony murder (when murder occurs during a commission of another felony, regardless of intent) I think that's fair. And in this case I believe the charges are also fair, and maybe even conservative based on some of the facts.

 

[jjenny]

If everything researched on hyperthermia says the chilld would be red, why did a witness(s) say the child was blue. Would that indicate he had already been dead? before the hyperthermia? Or perhaps he did choke and expire- before the heat got to him?

No, because his cause of death was determined to be hyperthermia. Not chocking or anything else.

 

[Chewy]

My hinky meter is going crazy on this case but I wanted to corroborate your claim that it is possible to forget your child. I've worked with children most of my career. I've been at school meetings when parents have left and forgot they brought their child with them- at their SCHOOL, I've been at ymca's when parents have left their child, and I can't count the number of times both parents go home to find out one of them forgot to pick their child up from after school programs. It happens all the time. Almost all were busy, harried parents, (that is not an excuse) but one I remember vividly. She was a friendly, nice person, but she could not grasp how things like letting a two year old play outside by himself (100 feet from a 55mph rd) was not safe. They were just cute little accessories to her life. She forgot them all the time. I could go on and on. Jmo

Great post, as I've stated before, parents who do this are negligent people who have likely done it before.

 

[BrownRice]

Since we all know that Cooper was long gone before the defendant pulled into the pizza place, and since we all know that Cooper couldn't possibly be choking, I wonder what what made him all of a sudden "remember" that Cooper was in the back seat. (Not being able to see him, of course)

What I mean, is....he CANNOT explain that away. Nobody can.

Yesterday, I posted that I was on the fence with this case. Originally thought guilty, but then maybe just a little chance the guy simply forgot. However, now seeing a picture of Cooper in his car seat (his head goes ABOVE the back of the seat), there's no way he couldn't have seen him in the morning after breakfast, at lunch, when he got off work, while driving (wherever he was going). And of course the "choking" comment. Impossible.

 

[Sonya610]

The dad went to his car at lunch time and still did not see Cooper. The car seat also did not strike anything in him like that's Cooper ..oh no Cooper.

Dad goes to his car after work sits next to his Cooper's dead body. Reports state the smell was horrible and he still does not think Oh No Cooper. Or at the very least did I forget a Cooper diaper in here... Oh no Cooper.

Then he tells witnesses his son was choking. Well he was not choking b/c he was already dead so why say choking and if you can not see in the backseat to know Cooper was there how did he see him then?

:goodpost:

Thank you! Everyone is debating whether kids can be "accidentally" left in vehicles. Yes, of course they can, but this case has MUCH MORE TO IT!

The creepy comments at the funeral saying things like "I wouldn't bring him back even if I could" are also very unsettling. I can't for the life of me understand the mindset of a person that would say that if they were heartbroken at the loss of a loved one, especially a happy, healthy loved one that enjoyed life.

I know grief affects people in different ways but that statement is just so freaking bizarre it makes no sense to me!

 

[Savmom]

Does anyone know if he was actually seen in CFA? Or maybe he was seen in CFA but "sleeping" while being held? Did anyone see him at all before/after that stop? I may have missed it but how do we know Cooper was at CFA? Is there a surveillance video or eyewitness report?

I guess my mind is hung up on this statement from police:

Pierce told CNN On Friday, 'I cannot confirm that the child, as originally reported, was in the car at 9am'.


If not, where was he between CFA & being placed in the car after 9am? What would make police suspect he was NOT in the car upon arriving at HD?


LINK TO NEWS STORY WITH QUOTE

 

[BrownRice]

Still about 6 pages behind, but - God forbid - I left my child in the car by accident and he/she passed away, I cannot imagine "facing" one single person I knew, let alone addressing everyone attending the funeral, even by phone. Setting aside the despair and grief for a second, the shame and self-loathing I would feel for causing my child's death would likely make me withdraw entirely from everyone I knew. I understand that everyone deals with grief differently, but RH's behaviour at the service floored me. IMO

That's an excellent point. He did not come across as ashamed, mortified, devastated for killing his son (I think we can all agree he killed him).

 

[claudicici]

This case breaks my heart on soo many levels.Like so many of you I was hoping and praying there could be a chance it WAS an accident.But that hope is completely gone for me and I just can not fathom the truth.It is the sickest thing I can imagine to let your child die in this horrible manner.I could even forgive parents who snap and lose it for a minute and have to live with the consequences .But this father shows no regret,no remorse,he is getting a standing ovation at his beautiful baby boys funeral.This is so beyond sick to me ,so were his comments and his wife's comments.It really seems he made a conscious decision to kill this precious baby this way.I can't wrap my head around it.I don't buy the "premonition" thing at all and it reminds me of Patsy Ramsey.If you have such a horrible "premonition",like so many said before you have a higher awareness to make sure it doesn't happen and you don't google exactly what it would take to make the event come true,you google how to PREVENT the occurance.
And also like many said the wife's comments remind me so much of Cindy Anthony.
I believe if we would know more about their relationship and what went on behind closed doors we would learn a lot and it would probably be shocking.
I just don't get it at all.Even IF it was an accident how can this man accept a standing ovation ???? How can his wife stand by him??? Just so sickening.
Rest in Peace precious little beautiful Cooper.

 

[momrids6]

"During an interview with Justin, He stated that he recently researched, through the internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur. Justin stated that he was fearful that this could happen."

I think he may have been left in the car before.

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/crime/2014/06/28/justin-ross-harris-child-hot-car-death/11609645/

The creepy comments at the funeral saying things like "I wouldn't bring him back even if I could" are also very unsettling.

ETA: I wonder if they felt he was "damaged" from being left in the car an earlier day?