GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[TheMothership]

rsbm

Surely this isn't the carseat that Cooper died in, right? Someone mentioned it was much bigger than this size, which prevented the dad from seeing him from the front seat.

He appears to be under a year in this photo. He had already outgrown this seat so I can't imagine this is the seat he was still in. I am guessing a bigger rearfacing seat.

 

[tlcya]

Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
The standard that must be met by the prosecution's evidence in a criminal prosecution: that no other logical explanation can be derived from the facts except that the defendant committed the crime, thereby overcoming the presumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

If the jurors or judge have no doubt as to the defendant's guilt, or if their only doubts are unreasonable doubts, then the prosecutor has proven the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the defendant should be pronounced guilty.

The term connotes that evidence establishes a particular point to a moral certainty and that it is beyond dispute that any reasonable alternative is possible. It does not mean that no doubt exists as to the accused's guilt, but only that no Reasonable Doubt is possible from the evidence presented.

Bolding and Underline by me http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Beyond+a+Reasonable+Doubt

 

[Melanie]

OMG - I just got chills up my spine. I think I better stay away from this case for the day and go spend some time with my son. This is just to arduous for me to comprehend - especially the mom's statement. I send my son off to college camp next week, and he'll be gone for just a week, and it's all I can think about. I hate it when he's not here. But mom wouldn't bring her son back because it's selfish?

"I miss him with all of my heart. Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish,"

Have a great day WS'ers, and I'll catch up later!

Hugs,

Mel

Source: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/06/30/georgia-toddler-hot-car-cooper-harris-leanna-funeral

 

[Tawny]

"I'm doing this for you" was really strange. I"m trying not to judge how a grieving mother would form words for a funeral but that stuck out to me immediately.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

When I went back and read the HLN link posted by NurseBeeMe (page or two back), I understood her to say "leader to our children" as referring to his position as a sports coach for young kids -- says the congregation applauded at that point.

 

[DesertDreamer]

This is a very good question. I don't think it is Cooper because the chin is not pointy enough, but I can't be sure. I would ask the reporter, but I can't find her contact info.

Salem

It's not him.
I used Google Image Search drag-in-drop of the photo and found this:
"Dangers for kids and pets left in hot cars" - Arizona station reporting
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Danger-for-kids-left-in-hot-cars-205455601.html
It seems that the photo is a still of a video. Everything matches exactly.
The date of that video/article is April 30, 2013 at 2:23 PM.

The video that is of the kid in the still can be seen around 1:14 mark of the video.

It seems FOX 4 Kansas City started to use it so all the recent results are tied to this case, but it's not Cooper. Just a kid in a car.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes... But a good percentage would not feel the child is better off dead than having to go through that time in their lives..

I was just wondering... More as a way to get a feel for mom's perspective on life... And if there could be a connection to feeling like a victim... And the outcome of this event...

It was more of an observation question for me since Psychology is my major (masters)...

all... JMO

If you can, please delve into why her middle school experience was even on her mind at her baby's funeral....

 

[tlcya]

This is a very good question. I don't think it is Cooper because the chin is not pointy enough, but I can't be sure. I would ask the reporter, but I can't find her contact info.

Salem

I believe that this a stock photo used in the article discussed and not an image of Cooper

 

[Karmady]

<modsnip> I can't imagine not checking my phone or VM all day when I have a toddler in daycare. Especially one that hadn't been feeling well the past few days.

where is the not feeling well coming from? The quotes from the mother that he was having trouble sleeping only...or is there somewhere it's specifically said that he was not feeling well?

 

[amymarie]

My toddler boy screams, kicks the back of the car, cries, shouts, sings, babbles, laughs and otherwise makes noise the entire time he is in the car.

Every child is different. My 20 mo son is extremely quiet in the car. Fortunately, I have three very noisy girls in back with him. I did take just him to Target with me one time and got all the way into the store before realizing he was still in his car seat - I wasn't used to having just him! And I still feel horrible about it even though it wasn't a hot day and he was still sitting calmly in his seat.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

My guess is that the dad was refusing to go with them to the police station to give his statement without first talking to his wife. During the phone call he probably made some derogatory comment about the police officer at which point the officer made the comment about watching his language.

I really think dad thought everyone was going to believe everything he said without question, and he'd be free to go home and live happily ever after. MOO

Just jumping off your post...

Posters have been questioning what behaviors of JRH led to the cuffing by LE at the strip mall parking lot...

and I wanted to make sure my memory was correct....

here is a link and quote to help clarify...

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/cops-cobb-toddlers-death-investigation-continues-t/ngRfn/

"Harris was handcuffed at the scene because he was not cooperating with investigators, police have said. he was arrested and charged about five hours later."

BBM...

additionally... There were witnesses who could verify this behavior... If anyone was to question the LE's actions... (To be clear...I am NOT questioning LE's actions)...

HTH...:seeya:

 

[JLSChook]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...or-awful-day-make-supporters-think-twice.html

Bartender Artiyka Eastland, 25, of Smyrna, also thought Harris’ behavior was ‘very odd’.

But Artiyka says that after that something wasn’t quite right about Harris’ demeanor. She recalled: ‘He was frantic as you’d expect, but when someone else came over to help with the baby he stepped away and he was acting like this is not happening type of thing. 'Something didn’t seem right, I thought he was going through these weird spurts of being frantic and then being very calm.

‘The police put him in the cop car and he was talking to one of the detectives and he would be very calm, but then very crazy, crying. I saw him looking back trying to work out what was going on, but he wasn’t looking back in concern for his son, he was looking back to see who the police were talking to. ‘I can’t imagine what it’s like to lose a child but his body language in the back of the car was very odd.&#8232; ‘I felt like he was worrying about something, it was strange behavior, he was back and forth between crying and looking around'.

Artiyka also believes the baby had been dead for many hours before Harris pulled the child out of the car. ‘The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn’t natural.

 

[believe09]

You know, I always thought about Casey Anthony driving around in her parents car with the odor of decomp so strong, she spread dryer sheets around the car. (IIRC)

What kind of man is this that he can drive how ever many miles with his windows up and the smell of his dead baby in the car?

 

[nursebeeme]

If you can, please delve into why her middle school experience was even on her mind at her baby's funeral....

As long as the "delving" is in the msm that is fine (at this point I believe all that is there is her statement and we are not sleuthing her at this point as she is not a suspect at this point in time).

If that changes at any point in time our rules will change with it.

 

[Karmady]

So, I've been thinking about LH's statements, and there are several red flags, as I see it.

First, there is that statement about RH being "a good leader"

This strikes me as being indicative of a very unequal relationship, where RH had all the power. (JMO)

Then, she states that she wouldn't bring Cooper back:

OK, a little weird.. what mother who has lost a child wouldn't bring him/her back if they could? But, ok.. the world is 'broken' and she is greiving. Fair enough..

But here, she implies that she might have other children with RH.
BBM

Wait, she wouldn't bring Cooper back, because the world is 'broken' but she might bring another child into it? The reasoning seems flawed in the extreme..

It sounds like maybe (JMO) RH thought there was something wrong with Cooper.. and LH was going along with it because he was the 'leader'. She even said,

Maybe I'm just reading too much into this.. but I keep thinking of people who have killed their children because they think the children are evil, or possessed, or the devil. I wonder if we will find out that there are mental illness or drug issues involved. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. (MOO)

My guess is that they're "quiverfull" or similar. In that case, they don't use birth control and would "take" any child God gave them. We know they're very religious along those lines, so it would not be inconsistent for her not to want to bring Cooper back (he's with God and it was God's will) and also to refer to future children. jmo

 

[Spice]

So, I've been thinking about LH's statements, and there are several red flags, as I see it.

First, there is that statement about RH being "a good leader"

This strikes me as being indicative of a very unequal relationship, where RH had all the power. (JMO)

Then, she states that she wouldn't bring Cooper back:

OK, a little weird.. what mother who has lost a child wouldn't bring him/her back if they could? But, ok.. the world is 'broken' and she is greiving. Fair enough..

But here, she implies that she might have other children with RH.
BBM

Wait, she wouldn't bring Cooper back, because the world is 'broken' but she might bring another child into it? The reasoning seems flawed in the extreme..

It sounds like maybe (JMO) RH thought there was something wrong with Cooper.. and LH was going along with it because he was the 'leader'. She even said,

Maybe I'm just reading too much into this.. but I keep thinking of people who have killed their children because they think the children are evil, or possessed, or the devil. I wonder if we will find out that there are mental illness or drug issues involved. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. (MOO)

It's totally weird. Just so off. I cannot fathom the " I wouldn't bring him back" if I could comment. That one really makes you stop in your tracks. Then she goes on to state " If we have more children"

What?

I'm not getting where she is coming from with any of these comments .

Again, reminds me of when Cindy Anthony said that it didn't matter that Caylee's body was dumped in the woods and is was just her body and "Not Caylee" anymore.

Again, WHAT?

:twocents:

 

[jennapuppy]

I keep thinking, didn't the parents talk on the phone or by email at ALL on the day of June 18? If the child had been sick for two days, wouldn't mom maybe wonder how their son fared after eating, or how he seemed about going to daycare in general? From my experience, lots of couples check-in throughout the day, esp. about their kids. Even if they didn't do that regularly, wouldn't they possibly have done so since the son had been sick? Sometimes kids don't want to go the first day back after not feeling well. I keep thinking the mom would want to ask about this.

That's a good point. Also, if my son had been so sick that I'd been letting him sleep with me, I would call the daycare during the day to check on him.

 

[RANCH]

Just jumping off your post...

Posters have been questioning what behaviors of JRH led to the cuffing by LE at the strip mall parking lot...

and I wanted to make sure my memory was correct....

here is a link and quote to help clarify...

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/cops-cobb-toddlers-death-investigation-continues-t/ngRfn/

"Harris was handcuffed at the scene because he was not cooperating with investigators, police have said. he was arrested and charged about five hours later."

BBM...

additionally... There were witnesses who could verify this behavior... If anyone was to question the LE's actions... (To be clear...I am NOT questioning LE's actions)...

HTH...:seeya:

I wonder what exactly "not cooperating" means? I also wonder if they read him his rights after he was handcuffed?

 

[JeannaT]

With all due respect, that is patently false information.

This is not true. The death of a child will always initially be questioned and probled unless they die of a known terminal illness.

A child dying prematurely in any accident or even injured would be investigated No matter how "normal parents appear". That is just not true.

Foul play will always be investigated and then founded or unfounded.

Doctor's are mandated reporters and believe me, they do not not call for investigation because a family seems "normal" (a very subjective term).

Abuse injuries look a certain way..doughnut burns, old fractures on top of new fractures, injuries that look suspicious, too many trips to the ER, bruises in places normally not visible due to clothing. It has NOTHING to do about whether or not a parent seems "normal" or not. And especially, If a parents story does not line up with the injury. The injury will always be mentally assessed by the doctor or nurse for abuse.

And if a child dies prematurely, and is not terminally ill,or in a car accident or something where it is blatantly obvious, there will be an initial assessment whether parents are aware of it or not, and in most cases you are not. If something seems amiss there will be a probe and maybe a further investigation. Authorities will be called, parents, friends, neighbors will be questioned if the assessment calls for it.

. And it is also true that sometimes the most "normal" appearing parents are the most abusive. There is no "normal" look in murder or child abuse or good parenting for that matter. Medical and Mental Health staff are very aware of that.

You misread. I said if there is a death, there will be an investigation.

Otherwise, (meaning no death, just an injury) there won't be an investigation unless something seems off.

 

[Minette]

So, I've been thinking about this, and I believe one of the areas of doubt that arises is because 'failure to protect' isn't specifically addressed as a criterion for child neglect in the state of Georgia (and possibly elsewhere, I don't know.) Here is how GA defines child abuse/neglect:

WHAT IS CONSIDERED CHILD ABUSE OR NEGLECT?

* Physical abuse is injury to a child under age 18 by a parent or caretaker which results in bruises, welts, fractures, burns, cuts or internal injuries.

* Neglect is the failure of the parent or caretaker to see that a child is adequately supervised, fed, clothed or housed.

* Sexual abuse occurs when a parent or other adult uses a child under age 18 for sexual gratification.

http://dhs.georgia.gov/sites/dh
s.georgia.gov/files/DFCS.CPS%205.12.pdf

But you know what? Protecting your child from known or foreseeable risks isn't specifically called out unless you assume that it falls under supervision. My point is that I believe all children are entitled to adequate nourishment, clothing, medical care, shelter, and PROTECTION from known or foreseeable dangers as a basic right.

If a parent doesn't buy food, and a child starves to death (this has happened recently in Georgia) s/he can be charged with neglect and other crimes/felonies.
If a parent doesn't seek out medical treatment for a sick or injured child, s/he can be charged with neglect and other crimes/felonies even if the parent's religious beliefs dictate no doctors.
Heck, if a parent doesn't have their child in a car seat, booster seat, or seat belt s/he can be charged with a crime.
And why are those things crimes? Because a reasonable person knows that those things come with a risk of death or injury to a child, and that children don't have the resources or wherewithal to protect themselves in many situations and are completely dependent on their adult caretakers for their very lives.

But somehow, leaving a helpless infant strapped into restraints in what for all intents and purposes becomes a slowly heating oven that cooks the child to death is utterly excusable and couldn't have been foreseen? No.