GA - The death of Frederick Williams taser-related?

[dark_shadows]

Can someone please explain what Excited Delirium means?..

Dear Mygirlsadie,
It is on the link. Here is another;
link



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[JBean]

Thank you for that link D_S.
In my son's case, excited delirium is almost a description of his postictal phase:

>>Symptoms are said to include extreme agitation, aggressive, violent behavior and incoherence<<

So just imagine on top of that the possibility that true excited delirium could set in , plus an attempt to contain him..the results would be disastrous.
My son had a seizure in an ER room one night and it took 6 of us to keep him on the bed so he wouldn't fall off. After he was very upset that we were even touching him. He does not believe that he has just had a seizure, so he cannot make sense of the fact that he is not himself at this point.
Can you imagine someone like this being handcuffed? My son would literally flip out if he were restrained in such a way postictally. I cannot even think about it it makes me sick.

My son is not violent as in hitting, he is just argumentative and belligerent, something LE doesn't like to well.

 

[Wudge]

Hi Wudge, hope you are well.
I was afraid you were going to say that he was an epileptic. My son wears a necklace to identified as such, but who knows how well our LE is trained to handle this? I think they will taser first ask questions later.
This is positively frightening.

It is frightening from many perspectives. The fact that this same Sherriff's office was involved in another taser related death in their jail just months before Williams death, and, of course, the ridiculous claims from the Sherriff's office, the ME, the D.A., etc..

An attorney sent me a file and a link to the video last night. And though the happenings are dated, I felt it deserved exposure here -- because of the incredible scene, claims, D.A. handling et al.

Also of note is that, as regards the civil suit, the Sherriif's office decided to blame the manufacturer. Of course, they deny responsibility too.

The bottom line is that (IMO) people should have been criminally tried here. Apart from his death and horrific scene, the fact that no one was indicted bothers me immensely.

 

[dark_shadows]

Thank you for that link D_S.
In my son's case, excited delirium is almost a description of his postictal phase:

>>Symptoms are said to include extreme agitation, aggressive, violent behavior and incoherence<<

So just imagine on top of that the possibility that true excited delirium could set in , plus an attempt to contain him..the results would be disastrous.
My son had a seizure in an ER room one night and it took 6 of us to keep him on the bed so he wouldn't fall off. After he was very upset that we were even touching him. He does not believe that he has just had a seizure, so he cannot make sense of the fact that he is not himself at this point.
Can you imagine someone like this being handcuffed? My son would literally flip out if he were restrained in such a way postictally. I cannot even think about it it makes me sick.

My son is not violent as in hitting, he is just argumentative and belligerent, something LE doesn't like to well.

To my very dearest JBean,:blowkiss:

I am so very sorry.
I can see why you would be so worried about your son and having something happen to him.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

 

[Cheetah]

I hate tazers................

I have a neurological condition and if I were ever tasered, it would kill me. My mother, who is a crack addict and my 14 year old also have it. I don't worry too much about me, but I do worry about my mother and child. Hopefully I have taught my child to respect police officers and do exactly what they say. As for my mother....I can only pray.

I understand the need for police to use them, but I wish they could come up with another solution. For some people...these things are fatal.

 

[JBean]

It is frightening from many perspectives. The fact that this same Sherriff's office was involved in another taser related death in their jail just months before Williams death, and, of course, the ridiculous claims from the Sherriff's office, the ME, the D.A., etc..

An attorney sent me a file and a link to the video last night. And though the happenings are dated, I felt is deserved exposure here -- because of the incredible scene, claims, D.A. handing et al.

Also of note is that, as regards the civil suit, the Sherriif's office decided to blame the manufacturer. Of course, they deny responsibility too.

The bottom line is that (IMO) people should have been criminally tried here. Apart from his death and horrific scene, the fact that no one was indicted bothers me immensely.

I agree with you across the board and I think exposing this activity is critical. I do not trust our local LE based on my own personal experience which makes all this even more worrisome to me.
I just found an interesting article and blog. While I am only posting a snippet of one tiny section there is good info in the rest of it:

>>Both North County men who died after being shot with a Taser were shocked at least twice while struggling with police or deputies, according to officials.

The medical examiner's office said Solorio died because he couldn't breathe at some point during the struggle and he suffered irreversible brain damage. The autopsy on Mendoza hasn't been completed, pending laboratory results, officials said.

"All the evidence that's out there is very clear that multiple shocks with a Taser would be equivalent to Russian roulette," Cadena said. "The studies that are out there haven't really explored the conditions that could exacerbate the situation."

Those conditions include epilepsy, heart pacemakers, people on medication or who have medical conditions, the mentally ill and substance abusers, she said<<
http://www.viciousenterprises.com/summersblog/labels/Police.html

this section is from the entry on 5/2/07 which includes a taser study.

 

[Taximom]

JBean, I'm glad you said what you did about seizures. The few my daughter had left her confused and sort of anxious. I had no idea they could react this way(belligerant) too. Hers have stopped, possibly due to the meds, but I will keep this in mind. If she did this at school and someone there didn't understand, she could get hurt. Of course, nothing like what happened to this man, but still.

That poor, poor man and his family.

 

[JBean]

link


From the link;

“Fred was my sister’s son. Since birth, he had this disease – epilepsy. Prior to the incident, he had not taken his medicine. I know how he would get right before an attack – very strong. On several occasions, he would hurt himself from falling on his back or face. One time he almost broke my hand when I was trying to wrestle him down, but he was not a mad man.
“He was practically beaten to death at his home before he got to the jail,” Railey continued. “His wife had called 911 and asked for paramedics to be sent over to the house. She called to get him stabilized. Instead, they sent a police officer. His wife didn’t understand why they sent the police instead of medics. Then his nine year old son called again, asking them to, ‘Send the truck with the medicine,’ which I think he was referring to an ambulance.
“When the police officer showed up, he remarked, ‘I’ve got this,’ even though the wife kept telling him that he could not handle Fred without the help of medics. At that point, the policeman took his stick or baton and tried to hit my nephew. The hits were blocked, and then my nephew took the stick away from the policeman and hit him in the nose. At that point, the policeman issued an “officer down code” and 15 squad cars with some 20 officers arrived,” Railey said. “He was badly beaten and near death before he reached the jail.”



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

Oh
My
God.
I don't think I can read this anymore because this is exactly what I have pictured happening to my son. This just kicks me in the belly.
If my son has an advocate I imagine all will go well. but if he is alone or with someone unfamiliar.
He did have one in his office once and no one aroiund realized he was epileptic. They called 911 and it was the medics that explained to everyone in the office that he was argumentative because he was postictal and should be left alone for a few minutes. I imagine these paramedics put up with a lot. My fear is the police arriving prior to medics and this is what happened to this poor man.

I can see very clearly what happened to this man and it didn't have to.

 

[dark_shadows]

Apparently on a website yesterday, it was said that Mr. Williams autopsy states that he died of brain damage from a heart attack.

This is the site it is on;

link


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[JBean]

JBean, I'm glad you said what you did about seizures. The few my daughter had left her confused and sort of anxious. I had no idea they could react this way(belligerant) too. Hers have stopped, possibly due to the meds, but I will keep this in mind. If she did this at school and someone there didn't understand, she could get hurt. Of course, nothing like what happened to this man, but still.

That poor, poor man and his family.

Most have their own pattern, confusion and sleep being very common.
. I know exactly what my son will do. I have to stay nearby so he doesn't get hurt. He completely denies having a seizure and wants to be let alone to go about his business. I will restrain him in the sense that I won't let him leave the room or get behind the wheel! That makes him very angry because he is a complete state of delirium and confusion. When he was 2, I could physically restrain him, at 20 years old not so much.

The man in Wudge's story sounds as though he has a postictal much like my son.

 

[dark_shadows]

There is a comment about Mr. Williams death after the article, it is the first post dated 5/20/07.

link

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[Wudge]

Oh
My
God.
I don't think I can read this anymore because this is exactly what I have pictured happening to my son. This just kicks me in the belly.
If my son has an advocate I imagine all will go well. but if he is alone or with someone unfamiliar.
He did have one in his office once and no one aroiund realized he was epileptic. They called 911 and it was the medics that explained to everyone in the office that he was argumentative because he was postictal and should be left alone for a few minutes. I imagine these paramedics put up with a lot. My fear is the police arriving prior to medics and this is what happened to this poor man.

I can see very clearly what happened to this man and it didn't have to.

Clearly, William's death did not have to happen, and it should not have happened.

As regards your son, perhaps the best thing you can do is try to ensure people who are in contact with your son are aware of his condition and are given the appropriate do's and dont's -- I suspect you have already done this.

 

[AfterMidnight]

I'm very angry after seeing that video and several others over the past few weeks. Isn't it time we took back our rights? LE is no longer our friend.

 

[JBean]

Clearly, William's death did not have to happen, and it should not have happened.

As regards your son, perhaps the best thing you can do is try to ensure people who are in contact with your son are aware of your his condition and are given the appropriate do's and dont's -- I suspect you have already done this.

I feel so bad for this family.What a true tragedy.
Regarding my son, he and I have told all his friends what to do. I have no doubt that if he is the company of any his buddies or family members he will have a strong advocate available. Unfortunately ya just never know where and when and if he is out at the mall by himself...lord only knows what may happen.
Fortunately, he has been seizure free since 9/11/06. He is on good meds andthey seem to be protecting well.
But as a parent I still worry

Thanks for posting this article Wudge. I think as much attention needs to be drawn to these episodes as possible. That video was just unbelievable. I do not know what the answer is, but we should be looking for one right now.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

I had a girl in my P.E. class in high school that had a seizure we all knew she had Epilepsy so her having the seizure was not so so shocking to us but I remember when the teacher and a few others went over to help her she was screaming 'f... you' & ' leave me the F alone...don't touch me...etc etc.. then she started screaming at all of us telling us to stop staring at her and at the time I thought she was probably just embarresed but I guess it wasnt that at all it was excited delirium. Now at least people know that this is something that can't be helped. At the time we were all thinking dang you know what the hell is her problem? We are just trying to help her..

 

[JBean]

I had a girl in my P.E. class in high school that had a seizure we all knew she had Epilepsy so her having the seizure was not so so shocking to us but I remember when the teacher and a few others went over to help her she was screaming 'f... you' & ' leave me the F alone...don't touch me...etc etc.. then she started screaming at all of us telling us to stop staring at her and at the time I thought she was probably just embarresed but I guess it wasnt that at all it was excited delirium. Now at least people know that this is something that can't be helped. At the time we were all thinking dang you know what the hell is her problem? We are just trying to help her..

This is a very common scenario MGS, very common. I know of bystanders not understanding and really being put off at the behavior of the epileptic and feeling exactly as you describe. She wasn't embarrassed, she actually had no idea what was going on and probably had no recollection of saying what she did. It's misleading because their eyes are open and they are talking to you, but they are just in another phase of their seizure.

 

[JBean]

In my house we don't go "postal" we go "postictal"

 

[SieSie]

No charges have been filed in the torture / murder; the County DA refused to show this video to a Grand Jury, even though another man in custody was murdered just months earlier after being tortured with a TASER by the same police."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1964707186772642906


Does anyone see this as other than murder?

:doh: Why, oh why, did I click and watch that whole 22 minute video?! :doh: I'm soooo confused, saddened and angry right now.

I don't understand the video - I'm left with a million questions... what on earth were they doing to him near the beginning, when they first brought him into the room - there are tons of LE huddled around him, doing something to him - he's already in handcuffs (behind his back) at this point - what are they poking and prodding at him for? I don't get it - what are they trying to do??? I've never been arrested - is this standard? Are they patting him down for weapons or something?? Wouldn't that have already been done if he's in handcuffs? I'm confused.

What's with the cop behind him - looks like he's choking the poor guy with his hold around his neck, and the guy at this point is not moving. Why did they feel they needed that many people to bring in one person? Is that standard?

I can't really tell on the video when he's being tasered, but if his hands were already restrained behind him and they had that many people there with arms and legs holding him down, I don't understand the need for him to be tasered. How can cops really think that someone who is already restrained would CALM down when being inflicted with pain? It would be only natural to react and move about when you're being hurt - I don't understand the logic there at all.

I am also shocked at how long it seemed to take for them to realize there was a problem - it appeared on the video that it wasn't JUST LE there, I saw a guy that wasn't in a police uniform and he had a stethoscope - why were they trying to find a pulse and feel his heart time and time again when they could've used the stethoscope?? :waitasec: Later in the video they do try to help him, but it's medical personnel and not the same LE who brought him in.

Why was it being videotaped? Why didn't they keep the video on the guy to show what was happening to him (especially when they were trying to revive him). ?

I do not understand why the video wasn't shown to the grand jury - that just seems like a no-brainer to me - it's evidence to what exactly happened. It should've been shown and people should've been brought up on charges, IMO.

I'm saddened because there was no justice for this man and his poor family was left devastated. It's an old case and there's nothing I can do about it and that makes me angry. Prayers for the family he left behind.

I think I'm gonna go stick my head back in the sand now. Oh darn, I can't do that - I still have to go catch up on Chester Stiles case. I'm praying they've caught that scum by now.

 

[Wudge]

:doh: Why, oh why, did I click and watch that whole 22 minute video?! :doh: I'm soooo confused, saddened and angry right now.

I don't understand the video - I'm left with a million questions... what on earth were they doing to him near the beginning, when they first brought him into the room - there are tons of LE huddled around him, doing something to him - he's already in handcuffs (behind his back) at this point - what are they poking and prodding at him for? I don't get it - what are they trying to do??? I've never been arrested - is this standard? Are they patting him down for weapons or something?? Wouldn't that have already been done if he's in handcuffs? I'm confused.

What's with the cop behind him - looks like he's choking the poor guy with his hold around his neck, and the guy at this point is not moving. Why did they feel they needed that many people to bring in one person? Is that standard?

I can't really tell on the video when he's being tasered, but if his hands were already restrained behind him and they had that many people there with arms and legs holding him down, I don't understand the need for him to be tasered. How can cops really think that someone who is already restrained would CALM down when being inflicted with pain? It would be only natural to react and move about when you're being hurt - I don't understand the logic there at all.

I am also shocked at how long it seemed to take for them to realize there was a problem - it appeared on the video that it wasn't JUST LE there, I saw a guy that wasn't in a police uniform and he had a stethoscope - why were they trying to find a pulse and feel his heart time and time again when they could've used the stethoscope?? :waitasec: Later in the video they do try to help him, but it's medical personnel and not the same LE who brought him in.

Why was it being videotaped? Why didn't they keep the video on the guy to show what was happening to him (especially when they were trying to revive him). ?

I do not understand why the video wasn't shown to the grand jury - that just seems like a no-brainer to me - it's evidence to what exactly happened. It should've been shown and people should've been brought up on charges, IMO.

I'm saddened because there was no justice for this man and his poor family was left devastated. It's an old case and there's nothing I can do about it and that makes me angry. Prayers for the family he left behind.

I think I'm gonna go stick my head back in the sand now. Oh darn, I can't do that - I still have to go catch up on Chester Stiles case. I'm praying they've caught that scum by now.

The D.A. protected the officers. It is that simple. Such protection is very common in southern states (and in various states outside of the south as well). No one in the D.A's office or LE is ever at fault in cases such as this one -- just ask Mike Nifong.

All the family has now are horrific memories and a wrongful death suit.

 

[AfterMidnight]

This man was not committing a crime. He was supposed to receive medical attention. Why were the police involved in the first place? I have no respect left for the police.