GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

[Jaguar88]

Hi guys,

I'm a new member but have been following from the beginning. This is a great forum with some great insights and I have very much appreciated all the updates last week both from those in the court room and those posting tweets.

One thing that stuck in my mind from NBC's testimony was when he said that GBC would have left at 7.10am on the 20th to search for Allison. So why, just 5 minutes into his "search" did he call 000 at 7.15am??? Wouldn't you drive all possible known routes first and then call? Very odd.

Hi Emlou

:Welcome1:

Good point - also, wasn't OW also driving around looking? Do the phone records indicate calls between GBC and OW just prior to the 000 call? How did he know OW hadn't located her?

 

[AAAA]

I suspect that the couple's financial onus was on the business and not on home luxuries. It is not abnormal to wait until the business is doing extremely well before spending on things that are unnecessary. Often quality family holidays are higher on the priority list as well when kids are small. Good things get scribbled on and climbed by little ones, it isn't worth the tension. I pass no judgement on what looks to be cosy, unlike TM, who inserted her opinion in her statement. As for TM having her hands on the owner data for the house, I wouldn't be surprised if it was owned by a company, in which case G could have insinuate he owned shares ... she wouldn't have worked for 'just anybody'.

I'm sure the child care centre owns the house

 

[Whirligig]

The Fig Tree Pocket Tower connection was recorded at 6.31am on 20 April. I am not sure of the exact time of the recognition on GBC's find my phone app, but I understand this occurred during a police interview with GBC at the BC home later that morning.

 

[louisepiglet]

I thought it looked exactly the same as my rental house did back in the day when I was a single Mum, working full time and with 3 young girls about the same age as Allison's girls- money and time poor, but rich in love.

I have never rented but my sister has rented and owned homes all around Australia due to her husband's jobs. The only homes she really decorated nicely and unpacked completely were the ones they owned. She could never become emotionally invested in the rental properties. Don't get me wrong, they were always immaculate and the children had everything they needed but she never put her personal stamp on them. Allison probably felt this way.

 

[possumheart]

I'm sure the child care centre owns the house

And, with all due respect, I am sure a company would own the Child Care Centre.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

The Fig Tree Pocket Tower connection was recorded at 6.31am on 20 April. I am not sure of the exact time of the recognition on GBC's find my phone app, but I understand this occurred during a police interview with GBC at the BC home later that morning.

I found it (even though I'm useless at using my phone!). The find my friends phone location was done around 1.09pm on the 20th. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30830&d=1363406115

 

[possumheart]

I found it (even though I'm useless at using my phone!). The find my phone location was done around 1.09pm on the 20th. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30830&d=1363406115

So McLeod, Simmons and Thompson turned up five minutes after G googled 'psychiatrists Brisbane West'.

 

[Trooper]

Why have they not made that public I wonder? And what else haven't we seen?

There was no need for Statement #5 of Ms McHugh to be made public for the committal .. whatever is in it was worth while for the prosecution to keep for the trial... her Statements #1,2,3,4, were quite enough to prevent him being granted bail, more than enough, really..

Also,.. it is quite rational to assume that Statement #5 contains matters that would be extremely prejudicial in the matter of jury selection, and not made public at that time, since the matter of trial hadn't been decided, and jury selection was in the future..

It is also quite possible that Statement #5 contains more of the same stuff that was in 1,2,3, and 4...(' we loved each other, I wanted affirmation, I needed to know his plans ' etc., the usual babble) but I , personally , doubt this.. I believe that what's in Statement #5 will be the reason why Toni is a Crown witness and not a Defence witness.. something she would hate being, but cannot avoid.

Between Statement #3 and Statement #4 , the police interviewers advised Toni, with all the seriousness they could muster, that she should seek Legal advice , today. .this leads me to believe that she was in immediate risk of being charged with some crime herself, and had been made an offer of partial immunity from this pending indictment, in exchange for full disclosure of ... knowing Gerard's plans?? knowing Gerard's movements? withholding information? whatever it is, it is knowing something that isn't outlined in Statements 1,2,3,and 4..

So I assume she did in fact seek legal advice and was advised, legally, to take the offer and count herself lucky...

Or... she was so incensed at what was told to her by the QPS in regard to the other women in Gerards life at that time that she exploded and blabbed.. the foundation for this belief I hold is Jocelyn Frost said Toni had a temper, and she herself tells Ben Bassingthwaite that she said things to the police but she doesn't give a **** what she said, she was so infuriated.. either way, she was advised to seek legal representation at that time, by the police, who do not want a loose cannon complaining they were tricked later on, by not having legal advice recommended.

long winded, I know, lulu, but that is why Statement #5 is kept close to the chest of the Prosecution, and out of the eyes of any who may have been in the jury pool then.. Of course, the defence would have a copy of her #5, and what they will make of it, I cant begin to guess..


How I see it is this.. that when Toni comes up for her testimony, the Prosecution will lead her gently, but quite firmly along the path of what Gerard told her, and what she did or did not do.... she is their witness, after all, albeit somewhat hostile...

What the Defence will do with Toni is up for grabs.. either tear into her, under Gerards instructions, because it's dog eat dog time, now, and portray her as a stalker, mad, a liar, or... veer off from her completely.. because her mere existence is the glaring and unavoidable motive , among others ( finance, murderous inclination, fed up, immeasurable idiocy etc) for Alisons murder.

 

[Fuskier]

Isn't it funny how people see different things - my impression of the house was that it was very unloved and in need of a good clean up and the yard and outside were very neglected. The furnishings were very cheap looking which really surprised me The house looked to me like someone who was suffering from depression and really didn't have the energy to make it as they would want it.

Attributing the look of the house to 'someone suffering depression' as being responsible for that tends to blame the victim IMO.
Is there an assumption that the victim was responsible for the look of the entire house?

If so, this is unempathetic and disrespectful to a mother with three dependent children at primary school and all the demands she had to juggle, without the emotional support of her husband, and in a marriage which added 'enormous distress' to the normal stresses of raising a young family. The two main building blocks of family i.e. the marital relationship and family finances were sources of distress.

This rental house was 'home' to those people who lived there. It was not a display home.
The video allows us to peer into other people's private domain. Without training as to what to look for, or what perspective to take, we interpret what we see subjectively, filtered through our own expectations, standards, values, class and culture, etc.
We need to remember these photos were allegedly taken 4 days after Allison disappeared. Other people had been in that house helping the girls get ready for school, etc.

Inside the home: did you notice the nurturing in the girls area? the pretty girly colours in the soft furnishings, the times tables chart on the wall? (education) the bookshelf filled with books? (education), the dolls houses (age appropriate play), the soft toys in the bed? (symbols of attachment & love) the desk & chairs? (education & personal development) clothes hung up and organised in the wardrobe? (not all over the floor), etc.
Did you notice the house had a defined living areas showing basic order? i.e. lounge area, dining area, bedroom areas, kitchen area, outdoor area, etc.
The kitchen was not full of unwashed dishes and food scraps covering the benches. It was clean & organised. There was ironing in the baskets (not thrown around). The fridge door was full of fun family notes held on with magnets; recipes were ordered into a box on top of fridge. Floors were clean, bathroom mirrors, shower door and tiles were shiny, as Alioop commented. Did you notice the tablecloth? the flowers? the pictures/paintings on the wall? (love & care to make a home);
Did you notice the organisation inside the wardrobes? Things were folded and placed in there, not just thrown in. Shoes were organised into boxes at the bottom, not just thrown in there. The office area seemed crowded, but organised with many containers, filing cabinets, etc.

The parental bedroom 'space' possibly reflected the state of the marital relationship IMO. Not clearly defined, it was a multi-purpose, cluttered space. Whilst functional, it reflected two people who lived together, but neither invested in making the personal bedroom space special.

The family may have outgrown this 'space' and needed a bigger house.

The outside of the home appeared neglected somewhat. Maybe they should have employed a gardener to support this being mowed. Then again, with the in-laws just 5 mins away, why didn't they offer to mow the lawns to support the family?

Allison was multi-tasking at a fairly high level IMO. She was busy with the daily routine of raising three primary school aged children, with all their needs and social activities. One needs to be organised to achieve these tasks. She also contributed to school tuckshop and stall duties. She taught ballet classes, worked at Pathways, engaged in real estate training and worked at the BC real estate office as well. She managed her personal care, maintained friendships and family relationships and community connections. She did not have the emotional support of her husband; it appears they did not work together as a 'team', but possibly had different values and expectations. Most people suffering anxiety & depression would not have the capacity to achieve all these things.

This is fair comment and my honest opinion.

 

[possumheart]

Lovely post Fuskier, which leads me to comment that Allison's smallest had commenced Prep and she was extending herself to professional development and engaging a consultant to grow the business. I think G's convenient excuse of Allison's depression to cover his own shabbiness had reached it's used-by-date. I am sure he married her for her intelligence and efficiency, had to man up in her child bearing years, and now was potentially going to be out-shone. It has also worried me that Allison was going to unearth the state of the books kept by NIGel and Gehhhrahrd .... (or just had).

 

[KG1]

...and yet Nigel BC said that when they went to the house on a number of occasions, the curtains would be drawn, blinds closed and Allison would be lying on the lounge (he threw that in ...... not in response to any question re this from the Prosecution). Goes without saying that, although he said that he loved Allison as a daughter-in-law, didn't offer any information along the lines that he had observed her going into work at their Century 21 office ....... or that she had been giving ballet lessons up at the School.

4-5 years into the marriage, it was likely not this house. MOO

 

[LollyPop]

The Coffee Club closed yonks ago (there is a Mexican restaurant there now). But there are lots of places to grab a coffee in Kenmore.

Thanks RLTP. I haven't been that way for some time

 

[KG1]

and what's this drivel Gerard is telling Toni and Toni is repeating it all to Detective Senior Constable Christy Smidt?

apart from the unintentional comedy of Toni blithering on about how Gerard tells her he and Alison haven't slept together since the last childs birth.. ( folks.. how many women over 14 in Australia, or anywhere else for that matter , would believe this?? DSC Schmidt must have rolled her eyes at that bit )

Here we have Gerard telling Toni about ALisons parenting skills... of which he is highy critical.. the irony of him having this opinion and telling his extra bonk about it obviously escapes him , and this leads into Toni forming the opinion of Alisons home decorating skills, which she is highly critical of, too..

WHAT is she doing in Alisons home?? well. the usual thing .... nothing extraordinary.. Alison goes away, and Gerard and Toni use the house Alison lives in to 'affirm their love for each other' in the same dreary old way.. a bit of mattress on the floor.. these people are in the 40's...

Pathetic isn't it?lease:

 

[Liadan]

Attributing the look of the house to 'someone suffering depression' as being responsible for that tends to blame the victim IMO.
Is there an assumption that the victim was responsible for the look of the entire house?

If so, this is unempathetic and disrespectful to a mother with three dependent children at primary school and all the demands she had to juggle, without the emotional support of her husband, and in a marriage which added 'enormous distress' to the normal stresses of raising a young family. The two main building blocks of family i.e. the marital relationship and family finances were sources of distress.

This rental house was 'home' to those people who lived there. It was not a display home.
The video allows us to peer into other people's private domain. Without training as to what to look for, or what perspective to take, we interpret what we see subjectively, filtered through our own expectations, standards, values, class and culture, etc.
We need to remember these photos were allegedly taken 4 days after Allison disappeared. Other people had been in that house helping the girls get ready for school, etc.

Inside the home: did you notice the nurturing in the girls area? the pretty girly colours in the soft furnishings, the times tables chart on the wall? (education) the bookshelf filled with books? (education), the dolls houses (age appropriate play), the soft toys in the bed? (symbols of attachment & love) the desk & chairs? (education & personal development) clothes hung up and organised in the wardrobe? (not all over the floor), etc.
Did you notice the house had a defined living areas showing basic order? i.e. lounge area, dining area, bedroom areas, kitchen area, outdoor area, etc.
The kitchen was not full of unwashed dishes and food scraps covering the benches. It was clean & organised. There was ironing in the baskets (not thrown around). The fridge door was full of fun family notes held on with magnets; recipes were ordered into a box on top of fridge. Floors were clean, bathroom mirrors, shower door and tiles were shiny, as Alioop commented. Did you notice the tablecloth? the flowers? the pictures/paintings on the wall? (love & care to make a home);
Did you notice the organisation inside the wardrobes? Things were folded and placed in there, not just thrown in. Shoes were organised into boxes at the bottom, not just thrown in there. The office area seemed crowded, but organised with many containers, filing cabinets, etc.
The parental bedroom 'space' possibly reflected the state of the marital relationship IMO. Not clearly defined, it was a multi-purpose, cluttered space. Whilst functional, it reflected two people who lived together, but neither invested in making the personal bedroom space special.

The family may have had outgrown this 'space'.

The outside of the home appeared neglected somewhat. Maybe they should have employed a gardener to support this being mowed. Then again, with the in-laws just 5 mins away, why didn't they offer to mow the lawns to support the family?

Allison was multi-tasking at a fairly high level IMO. She was busy with the daily routine of raising three primary school aged children, with all their needs and social activities. One needs to be organised to achieve these tasks. She also contributed to school tuckshop and stall duties. She taught ballet classes, worked at Pathways, engaged in real estate training and worked at the BC real estate office as well. She managed her personal care, maintained friendships and family relationships and community connections. She did not have the emotional support of her husband; it appears they did not work together as a 'team', but possibly had different values and expectations. Most people suffering anxiety & depression would not have the capacity to achieve all these things.

This is fair comment and my honest opinion.

ABSOLUTELY CONCUR with you FUSKIER! We are not in ANY position to judge the household and the way it was kept. It was a rental property say no more- so it makes not difference to how we view the case.

If there was a mega kitten in the house sleeping on the sofa - in one of the photos we could draw conclusions and say that hey it must have been kitty who scratched JERRED in the night. But I see no relevance in making comments about the house and the way it was kept. Fine if there was evidence of a crime but nothing I can see from the photos that would clarify our sleuthing.

 

[marlywings]

ABSOLUTELY CONCUR with you FUSKIER! We are not in ANY position to judge the household and the way it was kept. It was a rental property say no more- so it makes not difference to how we view the case.

If there was a mega kitten in the house sleeping on the sofa - in one of the photos we could draw conclusions and say that hey it must have been kitty who scratched JERRED in the night. But I see no relevance in making comments about the house and the way it was kept. Fine if there was evidence of a crime but nothing I can see from the photos that would clarify our sleuthing.

I agree....Fuskier's post is lovely & shows enormous compassion.

I must say, I was a bit surprised those photos were released. Felt as though I was spying on a family's personal life & space.

Looking through them, I felt they were the saddest photos I'd ever seen....especially the girls rooms with their precious toys spread around.

Everything was more or less just left as it was at the time of Allison's murder. When her poor babies lives were thrown into a living nightmare. Absolutely heartbreaking.

And where was the husband & father of the house?? ....out traipsing around with his mistress/s, all behind Allison's back. I'm thinking housework & yard clean-ups weren't on any list of his as "things to do".

 

[Amee]

The Fig Tree Pocket Tower connection was recorded at 6.31am on 20 April. I am not sure of the exact time of the recognition on GBC's find my phone app, but I understand this occurred during a police interview with GBC at the BC home later that morning.

:liar:

Mr Doyle said Baden-Clay had a 'find my friends' application on his phone but at 6.41am on April 20 it was "likely it had never been used".

Justice Applegarth: "It would be a pretty stupid thing to say you had used that application when you hadn't."

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

Mcdonalds/mc cafe?

Surely then there would be CCTV footage of Allison and GBC having their coffee somewhere? The police, I'm sure, would check the "truth" of such statements. After all, if GBC and NBC lied about that, what else are they lying about? Hmmmmmmmmm.......

 

[louisepiglet]

Lovely post Fuskier. And poor Allison didn't realise that videos of her home would be all over the media. We all have a tidy up if visitors are expected. Allison had no idea of what was to happen. So sad.

 

[Radster]

So Gerard was telling this to anyone who would listen? Item 32 in Phil Broom's statement - 'He (Gerard) said they were not sleeping in the same bed. In Brookfield Road house I (Phil) am aware he was sleeping on the couch or in the spare room'. How was Phil aware? Just because G told him, or from personal observation at the times he showered and breakfasted after early morning golf?

TM also states in her 4th statement item 22 they 'they had not slept together for years, he slept most nights on the couch in the living room'. This would have to be because G said so, as she only invaded Allison's privacy twice

This is how many men in their own minds justify infidelity. My own father used this excuse - "Well, we weren't sleeping together anymore, so ..." And the more people you tell this to (eg Phill Broom etc), the more valid it starts to feel. Utter delusion. It is not difficult to extrapolate from this to the situation now where G (and his parents) in some way justify in their own minds what has transpired in terms of Allison's death because poor G had suffered through life with a depressed wife, an inadequate mother who lazed around on the couch in the dark, didn't "work", didn't put out ... I mean, how much can a man bear? He has already served his jail sentence. Justifiable homicide.

I wonder if the parents still speak to TM?

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

I thought it looked exactly the same as my rental house did back in the day when I was a single Mum, working full time and with 3 young girls about the same age as Allison's girls- money and time poor, but rich in love.

I agree, it looks cluttered but it also looks like a home of a mum with 3 young children, a mum who works outside the home and a mum who has a very busy life. I'm a single parent too, and messy :blushing: but I know my kids have always felt loved and safe. I also tend to do the minimum tidying up during the week and most of the work on weekends. Don't forget this mum was also dealing with counseling, a philandering husband, in laws over the night before, hairdresser appt, catch up with a friend that night, a conference with the mistress the next day...we'll, I'm exhausted just thinking about it. No, considering its a rental, which I've lived in for ten years, it's a home with character and love. Bless her.