GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

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Fuskier said:
Attributing the look of the house to 'someone suffering depression' as being responsible for that tends to blame the victim IMO.
Is there an assumption that the victim was responsible for the look of the entire house?

If so, this is unempathetic and disrespectful to a mother with three dependent children at primary school and all the demands she had to juggle, without the emotional support of her husband, and in a marriage which added 'enormous distress' to the normal stresses of raising a young family. The two main building blocks of family i.e. the marital relationship and family finances were sources of distress.

This rental house was 'home' to those people who lived there. It was not a display home.
The video allows us to peer into other people's private domain. Without training as to what to look for, or what perspective to take, we interpret what we see subjectively, filtered through our own expectations, standards, values, class and culture, etc.
We need to remember these photos were allegedly taken 4 days after Allison disappeared. Other people had been in that house helping the girls get ready for school, etc.

Inside the home: did you notice the nurturing in the girls area? the pretty girly colours in the soft furnishings, the times tables chart on the wall? (education) the bookshelf filled with books? (education), the dolls houses (age appropriate play), the soft toys in the bed? (symbols of attachment & love) the desk & chairs? (education & personal development) clothes hung up and organised in the wardrobe? (not all over the floor), etc.
Did you notice the house had a defined living areas showing basic order? i.e. lounge area, dining area, bedroom areas, kitchen area, outdoor area, etc.
The kitchen was not full of unwashed dishes and food scraps covering the benches. It was clean & organised. There was ironing in the baskets (not thrown around). The fridge door was full of fun family notes held on with magnets; recipes were ordered into a box on top of fridge. Floors were clean, bathroom mirrors, shower door and tiles were shiny, as Alioop commented. Did you notice the tablecloth? the flowers? the pictures/paintings on the wall? (love & care to make a home);
Did you notice the organisation inside the wardrobes? Things were folded and placed in there, not just thrown in. Shoes were organised into boxes at the bottom, not just thrown in there. The office area seemed crowded, but organised with many containers, filing cabinets, etc.

The parental bedroom 'space' possibly reflected the state of the marital relationship IMO. Not clearly defined, it was a multi-purpose, cluttered space. Whilst functional, it reflected two people who lived together, but neither invested in making the personal bedroom space special.

The family may have outgrown this 'space' and needed a bigger house.

The outside of the home appeared neglected somewhat. Maybe they should have employed a gardener to support this being mowed. Then again, with the in-laws just 5 mins away, why didn't they offer to mow the lawns to support the family?

Allison was multi-tasking at a fairly high level IMO. She was busy with the daily routine of raising three primary school aged children, with all their needs and social activities. One needs to be organised to achieve these tasks. She also contributed to school tuckshop and stall duties. She taught ballet classes, worked at Pathways, engaged in real estate training and worked at the BC real estate office as well. She managed her personal care, maintained friendships and family relationships and community connections. She did not have the emotional support of her husband; it appears they did not work together as a 'team', but possibly had different values and expectations. Most people suffering anxiety & depression would not have the capacity to achieve all these things.

This is fair comment and my honest opinion.
Click to expand...

:loveyou:
thankyou Fuskier, that was absolutely beautiful xxxxx
 
And a quick shout out to Marly for always keeping us in line, NOT an easy job to do with emotions running high! Thanks dear Marlywings for your amazing speedy ability to provide us with links to simply everything, for your compassion and for keeping us ragtag bunch in line. :blushing: You are simply wonderful x
 
Trooper said:
There was no need for Statement #5 of Ms McHugh to be made public for the committal .. whatever is in it was worth while for the prosecution to keep for the trial... her Statements #1,2,3,4, were quite enough to prevent him being granted bail, more than enough, really..

Also,.. it is quite rational to assume that Statement #5 contains matters that would be extremely prejudicial in the matter of jury selection, and not made public at that time, since the matter of trial hadn't been decided, and jury selection was in the future..

It is also quite possible that Statement #5 contains more of the same stuff that was in 1,2,3, and 4...(' we loved each other, I wanted affirmation, I needed to know his plans ' etc., the usual babble) but I , personally , doubt this.. I believe that what's in Statement #5 will be the reason why Toni is a Crown witness and not a Defence witness.. something she would hate being, but cannot avoid.

Between Statement #3 and Statement #4 , the police interviewers advised Toni, with all the seriousness they could muster, that she should seek Legal advice , today. .this leads me to believe that she was in immediate risk of being charged with some crime herself, and had been made an offer of partial immunity from this pending indictment, in exchange for full disclosure of ... knowing Gerard's plans?? knowing Gerard's movements? withholding information? whatever it is, it is knowing something that isn't outlined in Statements 1,2,3,and 4..

So I assume she did in fact seek legal advice and was advised, legally, to take the offer and count herself lucky...

Or... she was so incensed at what was told to her by the QPS in regard to the other women in Gerards life at that time that she exploded and blabbed.. the foundation for this belief I hold is Jocelyn Frost said Toni had a temper, and she herself tells Ben Bassingthwaite that she said things to the police but she doesn't give a **** what she said, she was so infuriated.. either way, she was advised to seek legal representation at that time, by the police, who do not want a loose cannon complaining they were tricked later on, by not having legal advice recommended.

long winded, I know, lulu, but that is why Statement #5 is kept close to the chest of the Prosecution, and out of the eyes of any who may have been in the jury pool then.. Of course, the defence would have a copy of her #5, and what they will make of it, I cant begin to guess..


How I see it is this.. that when Toni comes up for her testimony, the Prosecution will lead her gently, but quite firmly along the path of what Gerard told her, and what she did or did not do.... she is their witness, after all, albeit somewhat hostile...

What the Defence will do with Toni is up for grabs.. either tear into her, under Gerards instructions, because it's dog eat dog time, now, and portray her as a stalker, mad, a liar, or... veer off from her completely.. because her mere existence is the glaring and unavoidable motive , among others ( finance, murderous inclination, fed up, immeasurable idiocy etc) for Alisons murder.
Click to expand...

Trooper, methinks that Toni is now very much a different person than she was 2 years ago. She has had a long time to think of how she was duped and compromised by a deceitful, using, narcissistic, lying excuse for a human being. She surely must now realize what a plastic person he was with no substance and that it was all about him and him alone. She was just an instrument for his continual way of life, without any marital responsibilities. He likely also saw her as his continuing meal ticket.

Therefore, I think that Toni's priorities will be her sons and her mother, as well as being strong in trying to regain some moral fibre and dignity. In many ways she is also a victim of GBC and of his family. Bet his family do not bother with her now. I will be surprised if she turns out to be any way hostile as I believe that she has had sufficient time to 'wake up'. She will have 'seen' and noted signs from GBC in the days following Allison's disappearance and discovery of her body, that only someone intimately involved with a person will 'see'/note, even if it is only phone calls. MOO
 
I am just putting this video up because it gives me hope. It is when Allison's body was found, when DNA was being collected from 'snapped shrubs' at the bridge. The footage is good. It is a good refresher, and if I don't post it now, I might never find it again ...

http://youtu.be/INI0gB2p83k
 
Trooper said:
There was no need for Statement #5 of Ms McHugh to be made public for the committal .. whatever is in it was worth while for the prosecution to keep for the trial... her Statements #1,2,3,4, were quite enough to prevent him being granted bail, more than enough, really..

Also,.. it is quite rational to assume that Statement #5 contains matters that would be extremely prejudicial in the matter of jury selection, and not made public at that time, since the matter of trial hadn't been decided, and jury selection was in the future..

It is also quite possible that Statement #5 contains more of the same stuff that was in 1,2,3, and 4...(' we loved each other, I wanted affirmation, I needed to know his plans ' etc., the usual babble) but I , personally , doubt this.. I believe that what's in Statement #5 will be the reason why Toni is a Crown witness and not a Defence witness.. something she would hate being, but cannot avoid.

Between Statement #3 and Statement #4 , the police interviewers advised Toni, with all the seriousness they could muster, that she should seek Legal advice , today. .this leads me to believe that she was in immediate risk of being charged with some crime herself, and had been made an offer of partial immunity from this pending indictment, in exchange for full disclosure of ... knowing Gerard's plans?? knowing Gerard's movements? withholding information? whatever it is, it is knowing something that isn't outlined in Statements 1,2,3,and 4..

So I assume she did in fact seek legal advice and was advised, legally, to take the offer and count herself lucky...

Or... she was so incensed at what was told to her by the QPS in regard to the other women in Gerards life at that time that she exploded and blabbed.. the foundation for this belief I hold is Jocelyn Frost said Toni had a temper, and she herself tells Ben Bassingthwaite that she said things to the police but she doesn't give a **** what she said, she was so infuriated.. either way, she was advised to seek legal representation at that time, by the police, who do not want a loose cannon complaining they were tricked later on, by not having legal advice recommended.

long winded, I know, lulu, but that is why Statement #5 is kept close to the chest of the Prosecution, and out of the eyes of any who may have been in the jury pool then.. Of course, the defence would have a copy of her #5, and what they will make of it, I cant begin to guess..


How I see it is this.. that when Toni comes up for her testimony, the Prosecution will lead her gently, but quite firmly along the path of what Gerard told her, and what she did or did not do.... she is their witness, after all, albeit somewhat hostile...

What the Defence will do with Toni is up for grabs.. either tear into her, under Gerards instructions, because it's dog eat dog time, now, and portray her as a stalker, mad, a liar, or... veer off from her completely.. because her mere existence is the glaring and unavoidable motive , among others ( finance, murderous inclination, fed up, immeasurable idiocy etc) for Alisons murder.
Click to expand...

That's awesome thanks for that! I didn't think of jury selection! I guess that could mean there is a lot more to come on this and other stuff. How strong it is, remains to be seen.

What has me intrigued in a general sense is what the defence is making of the brief of evidence. I wonder if they have advised GBC to make a plea? Or if they think they have it in the bag? Do they usually wait until the case progresses before considering that? Why no opening argument? Are they coaching their witnesses to project an alternate theory?

Will be really interesting to see this case unfold that's for sure!
 
Amee said:
:liar:

Mr Doyle said Baden-Clay had a 'find my friends' application on his phone but at 6.41am on April 20 it was "likely it had never been used".

Justice Applegarth: "It would be a pretty stupid thing to say you had used that application when you hadn't."
Click to expand...

I forgot about that. It says it was likely it was never used but did they prove that? It would be pretty damning if they did.
 
From Kellie Thomson's statement.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*


5. At about 9:50am MCLEOD, SIMMONS and I attended 593 Brookfield Road, Brookfield in relation to Allison BADEN-CLAY being reported missing.

9. At about 10:04am the defendant invited us all to sit down at the table just off the kitchen....

14. I walked outside again and left Detectives McLeod and Simmons with the defendant, I then caused enquiries to be made in relation to forward and reverse call charge records for ALLISON BADEN-CLAY'S Telstra mobile phone 0401149013.

17. I then subsequently returned to the conversation, during this conversation with the defendant he outlined to us how he had been attempting to locate Allison Baden-Clay via an application on his IPhone 3. The application was called find my friends. The defendant then handed me his Iphone 3 so I could attempt to locate Allison Baden-Clay's phone as his application was set up. At about 11:43am, I have attempted to use the defendant's mobile phone using an application called find my friends where the phone was attempted to find Allison's mobile phone 040149013 (sic). At this time there was nil service and the message on the screen read location not available.

18. A short time later I saw the Defendant leave the house with plain clothes Constable Cameron SIMMONS to provide a statement.

Where did this take place? In the front yard or at the police station?

19. I later became aware that a crime scene had been declared at this residence and we moved out to the front of the yard.

21. A short time later I was approached by the defendant who was concerned about his children and requested that his sister Olivia pick the girls up from school. I then arranged with Olivia Walton to collect the children from school.

So who actually picked up the girls? NBC stated that he did. According to GBC's phone records he phoned the school at 10:01am.

23. At about 1:09pm I approached the defendant as he returned back to 593 Brookfield Road, Brookfield and asked the defendant if I could use his mobile phone again so I could try and locate Allison Baden-Clay's phone again using the application called find my friends. At this time it took a good 10 seconds where the application was searching and upon completion of the search. The defendant was standing beside me and I told the defendant that the phone was still searching. I then observed a blue dot on the screen where it indicated Allison's mobile phone was. I then said to the defendant, "Oh it's come up."

Where did GBC return from? According to his phone records from 20 April 2012:

10:01am - GBC phoned the Brookfield School.

12:00pm - GBC phoned NBC. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

12:25pm - GBC phoned the Brookfield Showground maintenance man. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

12:29pm - GBC phoned his solicitor Darren Mahoney. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

12:51pm - GBC phoned his solicitor Darren Mahoney. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

1:06pm - GBC phoned NBC. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

1:11pm - GBC phoned Robyn Ratcliffe, Solicitor Toowoomba. Pinged from Indoorpilly.

1:12pm - GBC phoned Robyn Ratcliffe, Solicitor Toowoomba. Call pinged from Chapel Hill.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*



Objection To Bail Affidavit.

Police have conducted a forensic analysis of the defendant's mobile phone.

- On 20 April 2012 at 9:34am, the defendant searched for psychiatrists in the Brisbane West area.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*
 
redlightthroughpaper said:
Although it's not there now, and although I don't know where they went for coffee that night (or if indeed they even did), there was a place called the Local Bean that they had coffee at sometimes. It had a tapas menu and was a bit of a meeting place for some. :)
Click to expand...

Wasn't the Local Bean where Sue Heath bought the coffee she took to Nigelaine's place on the Sunday morning?
 
Wouldn't it be normal to find Allison's hair in the vacuum cleaner bag if it was the usual one that was used to clean the house and maybe car ?
Just thinking because I am amazed how each time I vacuum every few days, my longish auburn tinted hair gets picked up
Different if they could trace the hair to a certain time period, ie hair could only have been from the hairdresser that night.
Or if they could also find hair with blood on it etc.
Or possibly a piece of chipped tooth to match the missing piece.
 
Allison Baden-Clay is a far better woman than me.
She was a proud lady.
Quiet and restrained.

Because I would've at least made a phone call to that other woman and given her a full mouthful and warned her never to step anywhere around my family ever again or.........

The only reason that would stop me is if I was frightened of my husband.

The best Allison could do was put restrictions on his calls and try to pull him back to the family folds. It appeared to be working but it only sent the lies underground.

Allison did stand her dig but was she scared of gerRed?

I know of men who tell their wife's never to come near their place of work. Could this be one of the reasons?
 
Respectfully snipped ~


Makara said:
From Kellie Thomson's statement.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*
Click to expand...

It appears GBC was taken outside? It seems she spoke to GBC shortly after he went outside. Was the other officer's statement available, this would mention if he was taken to the station?

NBC stated he did pick the girls up but was unsure whether he walked or drove OW's car.
Did he go together with OW perhaps?

OTOH, regarding the phone records, maybe GBC was taken to police station and used phone calling lawyers then was returned home.

I wonder why GBC searched for psychiatrists? Was this to do with himself or Allison? :confused:
 
TootsieFootsie said:
Wouldn't it be normal to find Allison's hair in the vacuum cleaner bag if it was the usual one that was used to clean the house and maybe car ?
Just thinking because I am amazed how each time I vacuum every few days, my longish auburn tinted hair gets picked up
Different if they could trace the hair to a certain time period, ie hair could only have been from the hairdresser that night.
Or if they could also find hair with blood on it etc.
Or possibly a piece of chipped tooth to match the missing piece.
Click to expand...

With the 4 females in the house I can imagine the hair around. School aged girls have to keep their hair up.
Allison's hairbrush would hold some key answers.
 
laserdisc10 said:
You're braver than I

Years ago, when my other half was interstate for a month, all I had at the rear kitchen window was a café curtain. Built up suburb, not out in the wilderness like Allison's place. Our little dog stood stock-still in the kitchen, staring at the window, then suddenly erupted with furious barking. I was sewing with a view of all this. Went to look out of the window to see what the matter was and there was a face. And it didn't duck away when it saw me. Your mind stays cool, or mine did. But the body turns to jelly
Click to expand...

Oh my! I have nightmares like that! What happened??

There's no way I could live without full window coverings on all my windows. Daytime is fine but at night? Ahhhhh no way!!

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Respectfully snipped ~




It appears GBC was taken outside? It seems she spoke to GBC shortly after he went outside. Was the other officer's statement available, this would mention if he was taken to the station?

NBC stated he did pick the girls up but was unsure whether he walked or drove OW's car.
Did he go together with OW perhaps?

OTOH, regarding the phone records, maybe GBC was taken to police station and used phone calling lawyers then was returned home.

I wonder why GBC searched for psychiatrists? Was this to do with himself or Allison? :confused:
Click to expand...

Some time back, didn't it come out that GBC was googling psychiatrists in response to the police officers asking which psychiatrist Allison had seen? This is what I seem to remember. Someone like Marlywings or Makara may have a confirming link.
 
Makara said:
Wasn't the Local Bean where Sue Heath bought the coffee she took to Nigelaine's place on the Sunday morningZ?
Click to expand...

What a great memory you have Makara - I'd forgotten that. It was indeed The Local Bean. Good spotting. But it does confirm that the Local Bean was still up and running at that time. Was a great little place, actually - just not enough local support to pay the high rent, I gather.
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Respectfully snipped ~




It appears GBC was taken outside? It seems she spoke to GBC shortly after he went outside. Was the other officer's statement available, this would mention if he was taken to the station?

NBC stated he did pick the girls up but was unsure whether he walked or drove OW's car.
Did he go together with OW perhaps?

OTOH, regarding the phone records, maybe GBC was taken to police station and used phone calling lawyers then was returned home.

I wonder why GBC searched for psychiatrists? Was this to do with himself or Allison? :confused:
Click to expand...


I feel that was like the Zoloft packets on the dash and attending docs for the scratches. He was deflecting and creating the proof why Allison would jump off a bridge.
A call to mummy asking where was that psychiatrist Allison attended? Ah ha getting a gang together.

As for the Zoloft on Allison's dashboard? I can't believe Allison would have packets of her medication drifting around her dash or car for all the world to see.
 
Amee said:
Mr Baden-Clay said he received a phone call from Ms Walton at 10am who asked him to pick up one of the Baden-Clay girls from school because she was feeling a bit anxious

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...ing-wife-allison/story-fnii5v70-1226951597398
Click to expand...

I wondered why the school called OW but then I realised she took them to school and could have left her number in case she was needed.

Could OW do the nige and deflect all blame away from gerRed on the stand, if so to who? Being a woman married into the church I believe OW honestly believes gerRed is not totally in the wrong. I think it's going to be a hairy few weeks.

Someone's name will be dragged through the mud I'm praying it's not going to be a gutter style attack on Allison.

Tomorrow is Monday! Yay
 
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