GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[Sydneygal]

Thanks Trooper. Maybe I've watched too many American TV shows where the insurance isn't paid out in the event of suicide. If this is the case here in Australia & if he gets off by saying she committed suicide would the payout be null & void? Did the coroner's report say that it wasn't suicide and therefore was paid out? Or doesn't suicide affect life insurances here?

 

[silverau]

There were no other drugs found on autopsy analysis - only therapeutic levels of sertraline (Zoloft) and a low level of alcohol (which would have been increased by decomposition as well)

Exactly! So how on Earth could Serotinin Syndrome happen if there were no other drugs in her system and therapeutic levels of sertraline? I will be keenly listening to the defences forensic toxicologist when they take the stand.

 

[BJsleuth]

Thing is: If Al was injecting wouldn't she have puncture marks on her body? If the did have serontin syndrome ( and managed a 14km walk and a bizarre rapid onset that suddenly killed her...) her body would of gone into hyperthermia. Surely her kidneys would show some sort of damage right?

She was suffering a cold (according to hairdresser) at the time. Do we know if she was taking any over the counter meds?

I'm not sure about the puncture marks, but I would think so. There's been no mention of OTC meds, just antibiotics.

 

[silverau]

Thanks Trooper. Maybe I've watched too many American TV shows where the insurance isn't paid out in the event of suicide. If this is the case here in Australia & if he gets off by saying she committed suicide would the payout be null & void? Did the coroner's report say that it wasn't suicide and therefore was paid out? Or doesn't suicide affect life insurances here?

It depends on the individual policy. Some have a clause where they pay out on suicide after a certain period of time. Some don't.

If I recall correctly the coroner found her death from unnatural causes or homicide. The insurance won't be paid out until the results of this trial as to who the beneficiaries are. GBC is a potential beneficiary seeing he was her husband and it may have been written in Als will.

Then guilty/acquitted there will no doubt be a battle of sorts for her estate and who the benficiaries are and then the company will know where that insurance money goes. I think though if there IS a payout it depends on her policy and whether the policy was still paid for at time of death.

I'm not really good with insurance info though. Think I need NBC business card to help a sister out over here

 

[alioop]

Given there are so many valid and varying views even on this forum, I think the jury are going to do it really tough in deliberations, trying to come to a unanimous decision. Alioop when you have a moment, would you mind explaining what it will mean for GBC if we have a hung jury?

If the jury cannot reach a verdict, then they are dismissed and if the Dept of Prosecutions thought a conviction could be obtained with a different jury, then there would be another trial with a fresh jury. Obviously this would take time.

Sorry if this has already been asked & answered but if GBC is found not guilty and the reasoning is that ABC could have committed suicide, does the insurance policy still pay out? If it doesn't then I'm surprised he'd go with this line of defense seeing as money was most probably his main motive.

The insurances have already been paid out by the 2 insurance companies and are being held in trust by the government pending the outcome of the trial. Suicide is usually only excluded for about the first 13 months of the policy. Allison's policies were years old so no exclusion for suicide.

 

[silverau]

I'm not sure about the puncture marks, but I would think so. There's been no mention of OTC meds, just antibiotics.

I'll have to look into this. I do know (thanks to doc watson) that one of the drugs was not an antibiotic but an anti-emetic.

Looks like I'll have to do some digging on mah wee phone.

Off the top of your head was there any evidence in the autopsy of antibiotics too?

 

[Trooper]

Thanks Trooper. Maybe I've watched too many American TV shows where the insurance isn't paid out in the event of suicide. If this is the case here in Australia & if he gets off by saying she committed suicide would the payout be null & void? Did the coroner's report say that it wasn't suicide and therefore was paid out? Or doesn't suicide affect life insurances here?

yes it does affect life insurances here in AU.. Alisons policy was over 10 years old, possibly even more, I understand Nigel organised it when they were married, or perhaps a bit later.. lets say 12 years old.. the suicide clause in most life insurances, in AU, as far as I know only inhibit the payout within the first 12 or 18 months of the policies life.. . on the grounds that the suicidal are in a hurry.


So this wasn't a factor in the payout.. what was a factor, was that Gerard hadn't paid the overdue premium on it. due April 6th. $1100.00, A letter was sent by the company, demanding due payment, and it seems Gerard couldn't scrabble together the money for it. Alison, according to evidence, rang the insurance , and it must have been she who got a tiny extension on the due bill, now due May 9th..

So I think now, that a small part payment of that $1100.00 was made, which kept the policy valid and operative... until May 9th , when the remainder of the bill had to be paid..

So Gerard was in a situation where, it was.. pay the bill, or claim the payoff.. how to claim the payoff?? well.. that's why he's in the dock.

 

[ollijack]

"The infidelity" Own it GBC! Call it for what it was "My infidelity"

Breaking, just downloaded Perfect Stranger and started to read it....looks good:seeya:

 

[squizzey1]

The only possible scenario that has ever made sense to me in terms of intellect and planning ability is that Gerard "lost it" and strangled her, then panicked, rang NBC who decided to take Allison to KC as he thought it would be deserted and she wouldn't be found. NBC at that time was trying to limit damage and save the family name. I don't think GBC was thinking of the insurance at that time but later realised he could cash in.

<modsnip>To most of us this may happen occasionally and is a an oversight or minor glitch, we put more funds in or go and get cash. However if you are near bankrupt, know that you owe $2,500 just in minimum payment on the card (???!!) this would really bring it home to him that it was near the end. Also this was in the shopping centre where he was president of the Chamber of Commerce. Being in this sort of financial situation is extremely stressful. It could have all got too much, maybe he realised Allison's payment for her hairdo used up the last bit of money on the card.

Just another point isn't an insurance policy not paid out in cases of suicide? So if they push that view they may get him out of jail but no insurance money.

<modsnip>

I was married to someone with a personality like GBC and when I brought up major, major issues he would always laugh them off say it was nothing, there was nothing to discuss, try and use his charm to deflect the argument. On one occasion I was so annoyed I have to confess I flew at him and scratched him. So I could envisage this happening.

Sorry for this long post. Thank you all for your support over the years, great opinions and witty comments. I couldn't have got through the last few days without all our virtual support group.

didn't scratch him silly , they were razor cuts from his old razor , you just thought you scratched him

 

[alioop]

I have to correct an error I made earlier about the order of closing statements and I have looked into that again.

A consequence of the accused calling evidence ( whether they give evidence themselves or others give evidence for them) in Queensland is that they lose the right of making the last address.

So in this case I confirm the defence will go first in the closing statements and the prosecution will have the last say.

Sorry for my error.

 

[BJsleuth]

I'll have to look into this. I do know (thanks to doc watson) that one of the drugs was not an antibiotic but an anti-emetic.

Looks like I'll have to do some digging on mah wee phone.

Off the top of your head was there any evidence in the autopsy of antibiotics too?

No, just sertraline and alcohol. The police found Amoxycillin at the house I believe and Maxolon. Dr Watson will correct me if I'm wrong. I assumed any drug present would be in the autopsy report?

 

[JK673]

I have to correct an error I made earlier about the order of closing statements and I have looked into that again.

A consequence of the accused calling evidence ( whether they give evidence themselves or others give evidence for them) in Queensland is that they lose the right of making the last address.

So in this case I confirm the defence will go first in the closing statements and the prosecution will have the last say.

Sorry for my error.

So it is advantageous for the Prosecution?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

sunshinecoastdaily.com



They saw Ms Ritchie on the Monday, had a go on the Monday night and then revisited that on the Wednesday night, the 18th.

"By this stage of their relationship they were getting back together, they were spending nights together.

Well .....

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.a...lay-tell-jury-i-did-not-kill-my-wife/2300999/

 

[Amee]

4:47pm: It has concluded a sensational day of evidence in Court 11.

Today ...

* Mr Baden-Clay elected to step into the witness box to give evidence. Mr Baden-Clay's choice exposes him to intense cross-examination by the prosecution. It also allows the prosecution to deliver its closing address last.

* Mr Baden-Clay denied killing his wife and denied dumping her body in a creek.

* The 43-year-old cried, pausing to wipes tears from his eyes with a white handkerchief, as he spoke about his "beautiful wife" whom he was very protective of.

"I fell in love with her," he said.

"I fell in love with her pretty much straight away ...

"I knew that she was the one."

* During his at times rambling testimony, Mr Baden-Clay spoke about his relationship with his wife, recalling in great detail their travels around the world, even noting where he and his wife were when they learned of Princess Diana's death.

* He said his wife first showed signs of depression while on a trip to South America. He said her depression worsened after their birth of their first daughter and was a struggle for her thereafter.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-11-week-3-20140626-3aumz.html#ixzz35nSyE7pW

 

[Neuromancer]

yes it does affect life insurances here in AU.. Alisons policy was over 10 years old, possibly even more, I understand Nigel organised it when they were married, or perhaps a bit later.. lets say 12 years old.. the suicide clause in most life insurances, in AU, as far as I know only inhibit the payout within the first 12 or 18 months of the policies life.. . on the grounds that the suicidal are in a hurry.


So this wasn't a factor in the payout.. what was a factor, was that Gerard hadn't paid the overdue premium on it. due April 6th. $1100.00, A letter was sent by the company, demanding due payment, and it seems Gerard couldn't scrabble together the money for it. Alison, according to evidence, rang the insurance , and it must have been she who got a tiny extension on the due bill, now due May 9th..

So I think now, that a small part payment of that $1100.00 was made, which kept the policy valid and operative... until May 9th , when the remainder of the bill had to be paid..

So Gerard was in a situation where, it was.. pay the bill, or claim the payoff.. how to claim the payoff?? well.. that's why he's in the dock.

Something still banging around disturbingly in the back of my mind, is the bit I read in earlier evidence, that Allison had called the insurance company in the week before her death in an attempt to lower her life insurance coverage. Does anyone remember this?

Did that prompt him to act asap? Did she get a feeling he might be plotting this? If so.... *shudder*

 

[Trooper]

So it is advantageous for the Prosecution?

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[Tishy]

I have to correct an error I made earlier about the order of closing statements and I have looked into that again.



A consequence of the accused calling evidence ( whether they give evidence themselves or others give evidence for them) in Queensland is that they lose the right of making the last address.



So in this case I confirm the defence will go first in the closing statements and the prosecution will have the last say.



Sorry for my error.

Thanks for clarifying, Alioop.

Hypothetically, if he were to be found not guilty, could the Dickies then pursue a civil case against him where the emphasis is on 'likelihood', as opposed to 'reasonable doubt'?

If successful, that might ensure the insurance funds went to the girls?

 

[alioop]

So it is advantageous for the Prosecution?

Yes as what they say in pulling their case together is what the jury will hear last before they deliberate on their verdict.

 

[BJsleuth]

Just as an aside, Metoclopramide, trademark name Maxolon (one of the drugs found at the house) is also used to increase low breast milk supply. I had to use it when my eldest was in NICU. Given the remarks yesterday, it gave me a giggle.

 

[Total]

I have to correct an error I made earlier about the order of closing statements and I have looked into that again.

A consequence of the accused calling evidence ( whether they give evidence themselves or others give evidence for them) in Queensland is that they lose the right of making the last address.

So in this case I confirm the defence will go first in the closing statements and the prosecution will have the last say.

Sorry for my error.

Thanks Ali, I thought that was the case, but I didn't know where to look.