GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[MadDoc]

Re: Lindy Chamberlain. Can you believe that one of the reasons people thought she was guilty was because she had ONE outfit for her baby that was black?! This was cited as a partial reason for her alleged guilt: “Who dresses a baby in black? She’s psychotic!” A VERY unfair assumption and reminds of NBC stating that Allison was depressed because she wore black!

It turned out it was not a black outfit at all - it was some kind of light coloured item that had black embroidery on it. (I don't have a link for this, but I'm a member of the same religion as the Chamberlains, and we're a smallish close-knit community - let's just say I know people that know them.)

<modsnip>

Sorry, off topic - I really love your posts, and I think your description of Brisbane is spot on. I spent a little while visiting friends in Brisbane just a few weeks before Allison disappeared (one reason why the case immediately grabbed my attention) and my friends/ hubby and I used exactly the same description i.e. "big country town".

 

[Neuromancer]

http://samvak.tripod.com/5.html#

Sorry for saying this, but Sam is not a mental health professional. He's been well known in the WWW since 2000/2001 as a great con-man and women abuser. I would not use his writings as a clinical reference of any kind.

What's interesting about that site is that the author is actually a self-confessed narcissist (and possibly psychopath, if you find the video documentary he was in - it's called "I, Psychopath")

So if you read with that knowledge, you can see the narcissistic mind at work, along with the information. Note the rambling, repetitive style - he likes the sound of his own voice, like someone else we heard from this week

 

[BigT]

The 19th look for a disposal site?

Or he was on Mount Coot tha the 20th looking for a disposal site for the phone?

6.21 am ABC phone registers connected to internet at fig tree pocket tower, 6.46 his phone registers phone call at mt cootha tower. It may have been the phone, could it be possible someone has it, and being found at mt coot ham didn't think to relate it to her disappearance. He may have actually planted it there to be found, and it's was just a mistake that the find my phone app didn't locate it properly??

 

[BatWoman]

Some new details on GBC's damages claim against Flight Centre in 2000.

Until now, we only knew there had been a claim made by GBC when his employment was terminated after five months ( http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esear...Location=BRISB&Court=DISTR&Filenumber=5135/00 ), something he's managed to omit from his otherwise excruciatingly detailed testimony so far.

<modsnip>

Basically he sued FC for nearly $60k, including things like house rental and storage (!) while Allison was still employed there

OMG what hide! He blames the flight centre for his being unable to return to working in the UK because they employed his wife and made him take a job and then made him redundant thereby allowing him to resume working in the UK earlier if he so desired. I'm flabbergasted.

 

[ThaiBali]

Welcome!!

I have to say its sheer stupidity removing a vacuum cleaner from the house of a missing woman with police everywhere, innocently or not.

And why couldn't they use a vacuum from NBC or OWs house? Or the companies Vacuum? Or the property owners vacuum??? If the property they were fixing was supposed to be up for rent or sale ( I forget each) why didn't they use a professional carpet cleaner that real estates make all tenants use?

Yep, agree.

 

[BatWoman]

6.21 am ABC phone registers connected to internet at fig tree pocket tower, 6.46 his phone registers phone call at mt cootha tower. It may have been the phone, could it be possible someone has it, and being found at mt coot ham didn't think to relate it to her disappearance. He may have actually planted it there to be found, and it's was just a mistake that the find my phone app didn't locate it properly??

He'd have to travel quite a way to access Mt Coot-tha by car but the tower is probably connectable from the suburbs around it.

 

[Fuskier]

Some new details on GBC's damages claim against Flight Centre in 2000.

Until now, we only knew there had been a claim made by GBC when his employment was terminated after five months ( http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esear...Location=BRISB&Court=DISTR&Filenumber=5135/00 ), something he's managed to omit from his otherwise excruciatingly detailed testimony so far.

<respectfully snipped>

Basically he sued FC for nearly $60k, including things like house rental and storage (!) while Allison was still employed there

Neuromancer, was he successful in his law suit? Did FC pay him $60K?

 

[McCoy]

Sorry Freya – I should have clarified this… I’ve been reading the forums since the start of the trial, and while it seems like it’s 90% Aussies (and mostly Brisbanites) I was surprised at the number of Americans, Germans and other people posting from overseas. I thought, “How do I describe the vibe of Brisbane?” I think it’s good to get an idea of the context of a culture, and I hadn’t really seen it described yet.

I remember wishing someone had told me a bit more about the Vancouver culture and language before I got there – it certainly would have made things less confusing from the get-go. I wrote a little journal for my friend before she visited Vancouver for the first time, filled with things I wished I’d known when I got there (e.g.“A loonie is a one-dollar coin! The person is not insulting you!” and “DO NOT order a cappuccino! It’s froth and a teensy bit of liquid at the bottom of a cup, and if you pick up a Starbucks cappuccino expecting a heavy drink, you’ll anticipate the weight wrong and it’ll end up sailing out of your hands and over your shoulder!” and “Male strangers opening doors for you: they’re not being sleazy. Canadians really are that polite!” etc.). I gotta admit, cultural differences in very similar Western countries are subtle but SO prevalent: I wound up in the middle of quite a few hilarious misunderstandings within the first 15 minutes of setting foot at Vancouver airport.

Ha ha, I’m loving all of these predicted conversations with GBC and the defence! Keep ‘em coming… It also makes me wonder: has GBC spent the last two years taking vocal/acting lessons, or is it that his Byrne has framed questions so that GBC didn’t include all of his usual “umms” and “ahhhs”? I’m hoping he hasn’t spent the last two years learning how to “act” and not trip up. I want the prosecution to be able to throw him with a few unpredicted questions and the “ummms” and “ahhhs” will come back, tangling his mind and language so that he accidentally slips up and reveals truths, not scripted answers!

Oh God… I didn’t realize GBC helped with the floods clean-up. Of course those who helped out of altruistic motives are to be commended, but I can see GBC “helping” for another reason altogether: to look good. I bet he thought it was good publicity for his business rather than caring about those who were seriously hurt by the floods… if this is true, it’s quite insulting.

I recall Oddsocks saying that everyone here is really against GBC and not keeping an open mind. He seems to have not posted lately (unless I missed it)? I think his perspective would be VERY welcome, especially if he explains in detail why he thinks the circumstantial evidence seems faulty? I will add though that, like many of us, I did have a moment when I trawled through all the evidence and was struck by a thought: “What if he didn’t do it AT ALL?” I sat there stunned for a moment, imagining what it would feel like to be accused of guilt when he didn’t do it. After a few moments, all of the evidence seeped back into my mind… and I thought, “No way he didn’t do this. There’s just WAY too much circumstantial evidence.”

That’s the thing about circumstantial evidence. Yes, it’s circumstantial; yes, it often fails to acknowledge forensic certainty. However, when you have about 50 examples of damning circumstantial evidence, this adds up to a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt: he did it. Also, as this trial has shown us, forensic evidence is not as easy to ascertain as TV shows would have us believe.

Re: Lindy Chamberlain. Can you believe that one of the reasons people thought she was guilty was because she had ONE outfit for her baby that was black?! This was cited as a partial reason for her alleged guilt: “Who dresses a baby in black? She’s psychotic!” A VERY unfair assumption and reminds of NBC stating that Allison was depressed because she wore black!

GBC was photographed in a flood clean up because his parents house was flooded

 

[DrWatson]

6.21 am ABC phone registers connected to internet at fig tree pocket tower, 6.46 his phone registers phone call at mt cootha tower. It may have been the phone, could it be possible someone has it, and being found at mt coot ham didn't think to relate it to her disappearance. He may have actually planted it there to be found, and it's was just a mistake that the find my phone app didn't locate it properly??

For those who are not local, Mt Coot-tha towers above all the surrounding suburbs - which is why all the TV transmitting towers, FM radio station transmitters - and PHONE TOWERS are on there.

The way the cellular phone network works is that the connection will initially be made to the nearest cell tower that has open capacity - which may be Mt Coot-tha from a lot of places around Kenmore/Brookfield/Ashgrove/Bardon and many other suburbs. If the system can't find an open slot on a more local tower (eg Kenmore or Brookfield) it can easily access the big fella up on Mt Coot-tha. Then as the call progresses, and particularly if the phone is moving (eg in a car), the call gets handed off from one cell tower to another - seamlessly. Neither the caller nor the recipient are aware of the handover in most cases.

There is one exception - there is bend on the Western Freeway heading outbound where there is a very short dead spot, and you get your call handed off from the Mt Coot-tha tower to the one on the Waverley Rd overpass - and that one IS audible with a very short break. But that's the exception rather than the rule. Normally you can't detect the handovers.

For those with older phones, particularly Nokias or Motorola, you can have the cell tower you're connected to displayed on the screen - and watch it change as you drive about.

The fact that GBC's phone connected to the Mt Coot-tha cell is no surprise - he could have been ANYWHERE within its circle of coverage.

For Allison's phone to connect to Fig Tree Pocket (FTP), some of us did some driving around and experimenting several months ago when we first got access to those phone records - around the times of the bail hearings. My phone at the time (I used an old Nokia) connected to the FTP tower as I moved along Moggill Rd inbound, starting around the Kenmore Tavern area, then as I climbed up Chapel Hill. The FTP tower is next to the football fields adjacent to the FTP Road overpass over the Centenary Highway - it is easily seen. It is not right down near the tip of FTP as some suggested back then.

It is also feasible that the FTP tower could connect from Brookfield - the Rafting Ground parklands area on the river side of Moggill Rd can "see" the FTP tower.

The long connection of Allison's phone to the FTP tower would suggest that it was stationary somewhere within its circle of coverage. Until its battery ran dead.

 

[possumheart]

GBC was photographed in a flood clean up because his parents house was flooded

Toni McHugh was in the photo with him.

 

[enthralled]

Toni McHugh was in the photo with him.

Does anyone know where that pic can be viewed?

 

[FigTree]

Several folks have commented on the "thuds" that various witnesses have described, both at Brookfield and at the Kholo Bridge.

There have been various theories about a body being dropped, knocked, or plopped into the car, or the road, or over the bridge.

However, I would suggest that NONE of those is likely to be the cause of thuds that are audible from any distance at all.

BUT - far more likely to be the closing of the tailgate/back hatch of the Captiva and/or the driver's door. While the driver's door would sound fairly distinctive - like a car door - the tailgate may not sound as distinctive. I drive a Landcruiser, and the sound the tailgate makes when being closed is more of a solid thud.

Just putting the idea out there - I don't think the thuds would have been Allison, either dead or alive.

Agreed.
Was there an exchange from one car to another car? Was there another car already waiting at the showground area on the dirt road which divides the pony club? There's no gate to block that access to 2 entrances on Brookfield Road.

I could imagine someone wanting to meet with GBC, but not park directly outside the house.


Source: Read More&#8230;

Mr Fuller said police doorknocks unearthed several neighbours who had heard an argument and a woman&#8217;s scream at various times after 9pm on April 19.
----
He said residents at Karalee and Anstead were woken by dogs and the faint sound of &#8220;mumbled voices&#8221; from the direction of the Kholo Creek Bridge in the early hours of the next morning.

He would take his phone with him - in case it rang and woke the girls.
There was no need to put his back on the charger around 2am - it had already been on charge prior to to 8:30pm approx when it was taken off the charger.

Source: Day 11. Read More&#8230; The jury was told Baden-Clay&#8217;s phone was connected to a charger at 1.40am and was not removed until 6.15am.
-----

From the Application for Forensic Procedure report QLD Police:
Further Forensic examination revealed that the defendants phone was removed from charge at approximately 8:30pm on the evening of the 19th of April 2014 and returned to charge at approx. 1:48am on the 20th April 2014.

Source: Day 11. Read More&#8230;
He said he did not leave his children alone in the house to go to Kholo Creek: &#8220;Definitely not, never.&#8221;

He answered this question emphatically ...

Maybe he did go to Kholo Creek - he could have either drove someone elses car, or went as a passenger in someone elses car - but the children weren't alone - some one stayed close by or in the house to monitor them.

or did he not leave the children and not go to Kholo Creek - but someone else did ... after the transfer of the body into another car.
-----

It may be why the Prosecution have had their focus on the house - where they believe the murder took place, and are yet to tackle vigourously the disposal of the body as there maybe others involved.

 

[squizzey1]

Agreed.
Was there an exchange from one car to another car? Was there another car already waiting at the showground area on the dirt road which divides the pony club? There's no gate to block that access to 2 entrances on Brookfield Road.

I could imagine someone wanting to meet with GBC, but not park directly outside the house.


Source: Read

He would take his phone with him - in case it rang.
There was no need to put his back on the charger around 2am - it had already been on charge prior to to 8:30pm approx when it was taken off the charger.




He answered this question emphatically ...

Maybe he did go to Kholo Creek as a passenger in someone elses car - but the children weren't alone - some one stayed close by or in the house to monitor them.

or did he not leave the children and not go to Kholo Creek - but someone else did ... after the transfer of the body into another car.

.

I think so but who was the someone

 

[Maigret]

Roll on Monday

 

[Neuromancer]

Several folks have commented on the "thuds" that various witnesses have described, both at Brookfield and at the Kholo Bridge.

There have been various theories about a body being dropped, knocked, or plopped into the car, or the road, or over the bridge.

However, I would suggest that NONE of those is likely to be the cause of thuds that are audible from any distance at all.

BUT - far more likely to be the closing of the tailgate/back hatch of the Captiva and/or the driver's door. While the driver's door would sound fairly distinctive - like a car door - the tailgate may not sound as distinctive. I drive a Landcruiser, and the sound the tailgate makes when being closed is more of a solid thud.

Just putting the idea out there - I don't think the thuds would have been Allison, either dead or alive.

Thanks DW that's interesting. Yes I thought the woman across the road made some distinction between hearing the "sack of spuds" thud and then a car door. So I was willing to run with that for a bit, but I like your point about the two different door sounds.

I had thought that it would be surprising for the body falling in car to make enough noise to be heard across the road, but I was also considering how the weight and momentum of a falling limp body can surprise you. And thinking about the times I've heard a living person fall onto the floor a few rooms away, it can make quite a loud thud. But would happily concede that the boot-closing noise would be more likely to be the sound travelling.

Would be interesting to do a re-enactment audio experiment, especially at Kholo (altho wind and weather contribute so much it would be hard to get it perfect I guess).

 

[FigTree]

Kiwijayne, the current maintenance man could check with the one on duty in April 2012. There was speculation in earlier WS threads that the Captiva was seen by locals parked in the Showgrounds in the early hours of that morning 20th April 2012, that maybe the car and wheel arches were hosed down there before he brought it back to the house, then placed the toys in the back, etc.

Plenty of water and hoses to be found usually at Pony Cubs - and buckets.

.

 

[FigTree]

I think so but who was the someone

Lets get him off the stand and into :jail: first on the charge of murder at the home (focus of the Prosecution) and then lets see what dots are left over to join up with him.
One at a time maybe?

 

[Makara]

Several folks have commented on the "thuds" that various witnesses have described, both at Brookfield and at the Kholo Bridge.

There have been various theories about a body being dropped, knocked, or plopped into the car, or the road, or over the bridge.

However, I would suggest that NONE of those is likely to be the cause of thuds that are audible from any distance at all.

BUT - far more likely to be the closing of the tailgate/back hatch of the Captiva and/or the driver's door. While the driver's door would sound fairly distinctive - like a car door - the tailgate may not sound as distinctive. I drive a Landcruiser, and the sound the tailgate makes when being closed is more of a solid thud.

Just putting the idea out there - I don't think the thuds would have been Allison, either dead or alive.

Totally agree Doc. I don't think the sound of a body hitting mud would be audible over a long distance.

 

[Makara]

Being such a local identity in the community, on Committees, etc, living in close proximity to the Showgrounds, what are the chances that he had been given a key beforehand?

Exactly!

 

[Amee]

Welcome!!

I have to say its sheer stupidity removing a vacuum cleaner from the house of a missing woman with police everywhere, innocently or not.

And why couldn't they use a vacuum from NBC or OWs house? Or the companies Vacuum? Or the property owners vacuum??? If the property they were fixing was supposed to be up for rent or sale ( I forget each) why didn't they use a professional carpet cleaner that real estates make all tenants use?

especially when it has new carpets....

BADEN-CLAY: Um [INDISTINCT] on the sixteenth. I know all the
days &#8216;cause I, I was, as I say, everything had to, some things
were contingent on others. You couldn&#8217;t put the carpet in till
the paint was finished. The carpet layers needed a free, you
know--

CON SIMMONS: Mmm.

BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] house washed and cleaned and the
[INDISTINCT]. It was photographed yesterday.

CON SIMMONS: Oh okay.

BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] launches today. [INDISTINCT].

TRANSCRIPT
OF
POLICE RECORD OF INTERVIEW

DATE:
20 APRIL 2012

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171094&page=10