GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #4

[catswhiskers]

You are such a clever, compassionate and witty bunch. I have officially abandoned my nightly fiction in favour of WS.

A few things:

1. Fuller IS a supersmartstonecoldfox.

2. The NOTE/S. As to that reportedly made out to the jury (did I really just type that? A NOTE to the JURY?! Either he has seen that attempted on some (misleading) B-grade crime show, in which case he sure knows what a crime scene is OR he has again made legal history...), my best guess as to its content, given the timing, would be that it claimed 'it all came out wrong/you gotta believe me'. Dissemble, deflect, placate. You get the drill. As to the other, to His Honour (?!) regarding the app, of ALL the things over those four days he reckons he might wanna correct the record about, take another bite at the cherry over, it's the APP? As Trooper says, 'it's not even wrong'!

3. Re: the significance of the impending Toni/Allison collision. That whole potentiality was DIRECTLY related to money. Hearing GBC flat out deny ANY concern (contrary to prior statements and all commonsense) makes me think he was completely preoccupied with it on the 19th. That afternoon and early evening's calls were taken up with it. He told Allison to take herself off for a coffee post appointment (a strange suggestion, given all we know). If you also keep in mind Allison's REALLY brave, bold and thereto unprecedented calling out of GBC just the day before (having fun with your companion, no seats down), the fact that she clearly wanted to look 'just so' for this conference and that she THOUGHT she had a recently opened line of communication with GBC, you can imagine a situation in which a newly emboldened Allison picks her moment, over, say, the washing up, to say something like 'I suppose that Toni will be there tomorrow', or worse, something to the effect that she was looking forward to seeing Toni. I do accept that Toni was more likely than not to steer clear of Allison that day. HOWEVER, I think (and I think it had occurred to GBC) that Allison MIGHT JUST have had the guts and inclination to approach Toni. That would have spelt certain discovery of the renewed affair, Allison no doubt walking out, with the girls and taking any asset worth taking, including her insurances. I am 99% convinced that the conference was the catalyst for events that evening. Equals motive. Urgent motive

Thanks Her Honour - great post. Everything you have said about Allison in point 3 (not 2 as I previously said) rings perfectly true to me. I get the feeling she was increasingly 'onto' GBC and his antics - her text about not being in Snowy with the seats down has always sounded a bit feisty and challenging to me, and we'll never know what was being said on the subject at home because we only have GBC's word on that subject ... yeah, right.

It's been noted on here by some posters that while on the stand, GBC placed extra emphasis into his denial of pertinent facts as proposed by Fuller. I'm thinking this was also the case when GBC kept saying that Allison wasn't confrontational at all, and that he hadn't a care in the world about the two women meeting at the conference - the exact opposite was likely to be true.

And maybe that text message hints that he was being subtly (or not so subtly) hammered at home on the subject. For all we know Allison could have been well aware of what was brewing with TM (she must have had friends within the business who couldn't stomach GBC's lies anymore and would possibly share info with her) and could have been quite reactive at home. We only have GBC's word about how non-confrontational Allison was - maybe she didn't simply retire to the couch quietly sobbing to herself over his infidelities, as he would have us believe.

In none of her photos does Allison look like some withering flower. Her eyes seem to be always full of sparkle - in her latest business shot she looks knock-out gorgeous, glamorous and confident.

 

[catswhiskers]

Can someone explain to me the significance of what is the suspicion with his:

1. taking the Captiva
2. The Captiva being reverse parked in the carport

I am assuming it is because the Prado was MORE accessible, for 1., but am I missing something?

but what about point 2.?

Haven't gone back and checked yet, but I think that while GBC was on the stand, Fuller specifically asked him about the Captiva being reversed into the carport, and GBC denied this. I seem to recall him saying that Allison just wouldn't have done that.

Apologies if that isn't correct - I could be losing my marbles here :waitasec:

 

[Smegal]

Sorry to interrupt discussions. About halfway, having issues, but they are fixable I think. Goodnight

Oh my gosh, what a beautiful portrait of a beautiful woman. Bless you Oddsocks!

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Reverting back to type? So why did Mrs Dickie say Allison was injecting weight loss drugs? Hmmmmm

Maybe she said this to indicate the lengths that Allison would go to in order to please GBC.

 

[Smegal]

Something I find highly suspicious is that he sends Allison a general "hi where are you?" calm text at 6:20 and 30 minutes later he's calling police. 30 minutes! He hasn't called her friends, her parents, anyone she is close to that she might have contacted, the neighbours, etc. A normal person, with no sign of anything that suggests she was taken who just thinks she's gone walking, would try all manner of things before involving police. Then he tells police he's not that worried he thinks she will walk back in any minute. Then why call them if you think that? If you're not that worried why call them after only 30 minutes?

I do not buy it! I also don't believe he wouldn't get himself ready while waiting for her to respond to the SMS and giving her that initial time. Not if it was legit.

Yes! This is one of the major sticking points for me. You would think he would go door knocking, too, but nope.

I gave my husband a similar hypothetical situation (minus him cheating and having massive financial issues) and he said he would call and text/Facebook message my friends and family, including those who don't even live in the same town, let alone the same country before calling 000.

The timeline posted of all of his calls and texts was so interesting and it really doesn't seem to leave him time to do his triple S etc.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Hi All,

Long time lurker (many years) and first time poster.

I must first open by congratulating and thanking all of you for your thoughtful, caring, learned and often funny posts. You all really sound and act like a caring community. I have laughed and cried along with all of you but have chosen to stay anonymous until now.

I've never written on any forum in my life but thought I had to after reading about the Forensic Toxicologist (Dr. Michael Robertson) who testified on behalf of the defence yesterday. please see link (article) below.

'Killer links Aussie lover'
http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-links-aussie-lover/story-e6frfkp9-1225777012294

I'm not suggesting or implying anything untoward in his testimony and agree with most sentiments that it didn't help the defence in any way. I just though of all the toxicologists in Australia they could've chosen a reputable one without a history.

Again thank you all for the past few years in relation to this case.

Thanks,
SwiftSleuth

SwiftSleuth - What a wonderful find!!

Even thought Dr Robertson wasn't charged with any crime, he appears to have failed to declare a very important conflict of interest. Surely that's covered in Forensics 101 and is a central tenet of professional integrity.

 

[Fuskier]

I suppose the most telling thing though was his lack of reaction to the news that the constable had 'located' Allison's phone. It doesn't matter if it was their or not to me- as the argument is that anyone could have put it there if it was in fact there at all. The clincher is that if he thought she had fallen over walking and became unconcious, then why didn't he run towards where the phone was supposedly located? Maybe she was on the ground unconcious. What did he do? Shrugged his shoulders and went inside to read the the financial review.:banghead:

Exactly. He didn't react because he 'knew' where she was; he knew her phone was not there. If one was worried about a missing person and received that news, one would have an immediate reaction, want to go towards that phone because it signals 'hope' to locate/find her. GBC's lack of normal expected reaction probably confirmed for the police that this was more than a missing person's case. My opinion only.

 

[LadyBird1]

I really don't think anyone else was involved. I think that his Father didn't take long to realise that this was not looking good for his son considering the scratches and set about to make sure he had the best possible legal advice. That just tells me that his father has spent all his life promoting the "family name" and was going to make sure it was protected. Yes they are proud people. I don't believe Olivia was involved. I just think they are a family who can't get their head around the idea that Gerard was responsible. It's true that pride comes before a fall. Gerards parents would know also if he had a propensity to lie as a young person. They may know more than they are letting on but their family loyalty is strong. They will fight to keep their son out of jail because that is just not an acceptable option for a Baden Clay!!

Hi Aliwonders, I was thinking about the general innocence of the whole family all day yesterday.
In a public domain, in a Court of Law, both NBC and OWB spoke negatively of the dead.
Not one word in Allison's praise.
Worse, they each painted an untrue picture of Allison. They used the opportunity to paint, paint, and continue painting.
The picture was disparaging.
The picture was pretty dark, dismal and bleak.
The picture was disgraceful.
With each stroke of the brush, a picture emerged that looked like it had been overdone with the paint.
(And my mind went to the empty Zoloft boxes strewn around hither and yon. Bit of an over-kill with the effects)
Overall the picture was a lie, a fabrication, and had the overall effect of questioning the artist's intent.
To the artists, both NBC and his daughter, Why so mean?
There's a difference between family loyalty, and misplaced loyalty.
There's a difference between being proud in the true sense of the word, and being proud in the negative sense. The negative "proud" has connotations of pride and arrogance. The stiff neck and haughtiness "proud" is not looked upon favourably by God.
IMO both NBC and OBW disgraced themselves. And very poorly.

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks Her Honour - great post. Everything you have said about Allison in point 2 rings perfectly true to me. I get the feeling she was increasingly 'onto' GBC and his antics - her text about not being in Snowy with the seats down has always sounded a bit feisty and challenging to me, and we'll never know what was being said on the subject at home because we only have GBC's word on that subject ... yeah, right.

It's been noted on here by some posters that while on the stand, GBC placed extra emphasis into his denial of pertinent facts as proposed by Fuller. I'm thinking this was also the case when GBC kept saying that Allison wasn't confrontational at all, and that he hadn't a care in the world about the two women meeting at the conference - the exact opposite was likely to be true.

And maybe that text message hints that he was being subtly (or not so subtly) hammered at home on the subject. For all we know Allison could have been well aware of what was brewing with TM (she must have had friends within the business who couldn't stomach GBC's lies anymore and would possibly share info with her) and could have been quite reactive at home. We only have GBC's word about how non-confrontational Allison was - maybe she didn't simply retire to the couch quietly sobbing to herself over his infidelities, as he would have us believe.

In none of her photos does Allison look like some withering flower. Her eyes seem to be always full of sparkle - in her latest business shot she looks knock-out gorgeous, glamorous and confident.

BIB. Agree catswhiskers because this meeting between TMcH and ABC could be catastrophic to both business and personal life.
All self-inflicted IMO. Divorce was always the grown up option for an unhappy marriage. Not murder. But then, there was much to gain from Allison going missing wasn't there! IMO he anticipated getting away with this, and nearly did - except for the unexpectedly prompt Police visit on the morning of 20th April 2012 and an astute Constable Ash. My opinion only.

 

[Liadan]

Christ wife said she was talking to Allison on the morning she disappeared at the school and said she had picked OW up at the hospital.

I think she had it on the Sunday night and Monday morn Allison picked her up from the hospital. (just my recollection tho....)

 

[AAAA]

Sorry to interrupt discussions. About halfway, having issues, but they are fixable I think. Goodnight

That's beautiful Oddsocks, you're very talented!

 

[AAAA]

Oddsocks, this is so lovely that I really think you should consider giving this to the Dickies. If I was her Mum, i would be truly touched by this. Perhaps have it scanned and then laminate that scan, then give the original to Mrs Dickie? if that costs money, i'm absolutely happy to send it to you. wonderful talent, makes me cry

Great idea. Then it won't get damaged by the weather.

 

[SwiftSleuth]

I remember this case from some time ago and have read the book. I am posting a link to a further article from September 2013 - very interesting.
Are you certain that it is one and the same person?

Thanks for finding this if it is one and the same - wonder if defence know/knew?

Hi KG1... It's the same person. at bare minimum it has to be a conflict of interest.

 

[Liadan]

There is some intense reading of Fuller's grand finale in his cross examination of GBC here, (thanks Amee )

http://www.themorningbulletin.com.a...-concerned-about-mistress-phoning-wi/2306708/

I recall reading in the tweets that when Fuller first said "You killed your wife Mr Baden Clay", his voice rose. From there, it reads as an intense barrage of questions in quick succession about the murder. To our sleuths who were there for this (BN,Liadan,Bellgirl,Tangled?) I would love to know what GBCs demeanour was like when answering these questions? He seemed to have an answer for them all, but was he cool and calculated in his responses, unemotional, or did he seem defensive or stressed, did his voice rise too?

GBC's reaction no surprise- it was highly indignant, then drinking from the cup, 'I did not kill my wife', super indignant - ' I object to these....' (I can't and won't quote him) - he was struggling to keep his demeanor - he obviously would have like to have said more but he was on the stand. I just remember him sipping from the cup the entire time - (he must have a bladder like a camel). His voice was calm and lowered and he shook his head it was the little bit hurt voice until the very end when he countered with 'I would never....... the dastardly things that was said' whilst firmly sipping water, cup in hand. Not sure this actually what you wanted but I was a bit more focused on the questions that Fuller was asking.

 

[LadyBird1]

You are such a clever, compassionate and witty bunch. I have officially abandoned my nightly fiction in favour of WS.

A few things:

1. Fuller IS a supersmartstonecoldfox.

2. The NOTE/S. As to that reportedly made out to the jury (did I really just type that? A NOTE to the JURY?! Either he has seen that attempted on some (misleading) B-grade crime show, in which case he sure knows what a crime scene is OR he has again made legal history...), my best guess as to its content, given the timing, would be that it claimed 'it all came out wrong/you gotta believe me'. Dissemble, deflect, placate. You get the drill. As to the other, to His Honour (?!) regarding the app, of ALL the things over those four days he reckons he might wanna correct the record about, take another bite at the cherry over, it's the APP? As Trooper says, 'it's not even wrong'!

3. Re: the significance of the impending Toni/Allison collision. That whole potentiality was DIRECTLY related to money. Hearing GBC flat out deny ANY concern (contrary to prior statements and all commonsense) makes me think he was completely preoccupied with it on the 19th. That afternoon and early evening's calls were taken up with it. He told Allison to take herself off for a coffee post appointment (a strange suggestion, given all we know). If you also keep in mind Allison's REALLY brave, bold and thereto unprecedented calling out of GBC just the day before (having fun with your companion, no seats down), the fact that she clearly wanted to look 'just so' for this conference and that she THOUGHT she had a recently opened line of communication with GBC, you can imagine a situation in which a newly emboldened Allison picks her moment, over, say, the washing up, to say something like 'I suppose that Toni will be there tomorrow', or worse, something to the effect that she was looking forward to seeing Toni. I do accept that Toni was more likely than not to steer clear of Allison that day. HOWEVER, I think (and I think it had occurred to GBC) that Allison MIGHT JUST have had the guts and inclination to approach Toni. That would have spelt certain discovery of the renewed affair, Allison no doubt walking out, with the girls and taking any asset worth taking, including her insurances. I am 99% convinced that the conference was the catalyst for events that evening. Equals motive. Urgent motive

Greetings H Honour.
I love your new word, Fuller is a supersmartstonecoldfox!
Yep, Fuller is fantastic.
Never before did so much depend on so little.

 

[frustrated detective]

Sorry to interrupt discussions. About halfway, having issues, but they are fixable I think. Goodnight

If this is half way, the finished picture is going to be incredible! Well done.

Yes, please do consider giving it to the Dickie household so that they can all find joy in looking at it.

 

[Tangled_Web]

GBC's reaction no surprise- it was highly indignant, then drinking from the cup, 'I did not kill my wife', super indignant - ' I object to these....' (I can't and won't quote him) - he was struggling to keep his demeanor - he obviously would have like to have said more but he was on the stand. I just remember him sipping from the cup the entire time - (he must have a bladder like a camel). His voice was calm and lowered and he shook his head it was the little bit hurt voice until the very end when he countered with 'I would never....... the dastardly things that was said' whilst firmly sipping water, cup in hand. Not sure this actually what you wanted but I was a bit more focused on the questions that Fuller was asking.

"Indignant" - The exact word I was going to use to describe his response. I too was focused on Todd Fuller - it was such a dramatic and significant moment in the trial, the culmination to this point. GBC did seem to shrink back a little. But indignant is the word that sums it up. IMO.

 

[sosocurious]

I recall reading in the last few days that the blue dot Kellie Thomson saw on GBC's phone did not indicate where Allison's phone was. The blue dot was in fact showing where GBC's phone was. If it had located Allison's phone (with the Find My Friends app switched on) it would have displayed a green dot. I'm sure it was here somewhere that I read this. If this is in fact the case then Allison's phone wasn't at 61 Boscombe Road or thereabouts at all. I feel certain that GBC would have switched her phone to silent so irrespective of where it was, no-one would have heard it ring.

This is just so confusing in my mind (ha) because I thought his phone was in Kellie Thompson's hand.

 

[Aunty]

Please take note of my edited post above. The upgrade will be tomorrow night...lol.

Looks like a Fri night without you Guys :tantrum:
Hmmmm, back to Facebook then ... :floorlaugh:
:loveyou:

 

[marlywings]

Good morning everyone

We'll only be offline for a couple of hours later tonight Aunty

Bumping up my post from yesterday for anyone who may not have read it.

Important note to everyone...

As has been mentioned in previous weeks, WS is going to upgrade the site.

From around 11pm tomorrow night the site will be offline for around two hours or so while the upgrade takes place.

It WILL look different when we're back up with a new colour scheme. But don't panic as it will still operate the same as always & there'll be some niceee new features.

IF you have any problems once the change is made please do contact either myself or any of our other moderators.