General Discussion and Theories #2

[Blomquist]

Solitary Confinement..... google.

<modsnip>

It will give you a clear pic as to where DM is and how difficulty it would be for Anyone to HURT HIM THERE.

JFYI....a guard is outside 24/7...a little difficult task to be hurt in there!

SO if I was DM and innocent I would be talking fast ..JIMO...First Degree Murder charges is a very NASTY CHARGE against an INNOCENT person.....again IMO...robyhood....have a great day it is beautiful in S> ONT....bye for now fellow sleuthers....robynhood!

People in Solitary Confinement are often out of their 'cell' for various reasons, not least during the transportation from the jail to the courthouse, where they would be alongside others during the process of being checked (naked) hence vulnerable, whilst being redressed in their own clothing. This period may take up to 30 mins and then they would wait for their transportation together. At the courthouse they are sometimes placed in a holding cell with others, not always but it happens.

Contraband does get into the jails and there would be many opportunities to ensure that 'something occurs'.... It may also come as a surprise to some people ...but guards are known to participate in providing drugs and presenting convenient situations. It would be naive imo to think otherwise.... there was a case just last week in Southern Ontario where this situation was in the press. There are many stories like this....and although it's desirable to think that all public servants are pure and innocent.... stories like the one below appear to show otherwise... JMO


link:

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/08/16/j...mons-brought-into-prison-were-for-trafficking

'''''''''''But a judge has decided she&#8217;s part of a far more troubling issue at London&#8217;s embattled provincial jail &#8212; inmates who smuggle in drugs for guards, in return for special treatment.''''''''''

&#8220;She hid the drugs so that they would enter with her coat, which would be stored in another part of the jail. Someone who had access would then pick them up and the consideration would be transferred at a later time,&#8221; Rabley said in his judgment this week.'''''

 

[Juballee]

Solitary Confinement.....<modsnip> google.

<modsnip>

It will give you a clear pic as to where DM is and how difficulty it would be for Anyone to HURT HIM THERE.

JFYI....a guard is outside 24/7...a little difficult task to be hurt in there!

SO if I was DM and innocent I would be talking fast ..JIMO...First Degree Murder charges is a very NASTY CHARGE against an INNOCENT person.....again IMO...robyhood....have a great day it is beautiful in S> ONT....bye for now fellow sleuthers....robynhood!

<modsnip> Or better yet, DM should have googled it before he was arrested, so he would have known how much more rare it is than modern media would lead us to believe, and then perhaps he would not be too frightened to speak, as I put forth in a theory.

I put that theory out there because I would also like to know why this man who claims to be innocent refuses to speak. I have put forth many theories regarding his possible reasons, as I find it an intriguing aspect of an unusual case. I personally find it more reasonable than the theory that he is just waiting to see what the police have on him before he speaks because in my experience, liars always have a lie ready and can't wait to tell it emphatically and repeatedly, and also, for the reason that he must surely know that his silence is being taken as an admission of guilt by apparently most people, and so it tends to make me think that he may have a very good reason for remaining silent. Fear for ones life or the life of a loved one, to me, is a very good reason to remain silent even at the cost of annoying the public.

 

[ellie b]

A man with a young daughter, a baby, and a loving wife and family who he loved, wanted to sell his vehicle, so he advertised it. Someone replied to his ad and he took them on a test drive and he got brutally murdered whilst doing so. Someone knows who the culprit is but (apparently) no-one's talking. The victim is the man who was selling his vehicle, Tim Bosma, anyone with information about his murder should say so. That would be the correct thing to do, otherwise we live in a not so good world. Tim Bosma is/was the victim here, let's not forget that, well I won't anyway.

 

[swedie]

<modsnip> Or better yet, DM should have googled it before he was arrested, so he would have known how much more rare it is than modern media would lead us to believe, and then perhaps he would not be too frightened to speak, as I put forth in a theory.

I put that theory out there because I would also like to know why this man who claims to be innocent refuses to speak. I have put forth many theories regarding his possible reasons, as I find it an intriguing aspect of an unusual case. I personally find it more reasonable than the theory that he is just waiting to see what the police have on him before he speaks because in my experience, liars always have a lie ready and can't wait to tell it emphatically and repeatedly, and also, for the reason that he must surely know that his silence is being taken as an admission of guilt by apparently most people, and so it tends to make me think that he may have a very good reason for remaining silent. Fear for ones life or the life of a loved one, to me, is a very good reason to remain silent even at the cost of annoying the public.

Many, such as I and LE have put forth the theory DM and MS are guilty of murdering Tim. Many suspect DM is not talking because he is guilty of the murder. Most times than not, the guilty just don't talk. Plain and simple and totally understandable. They would prefer to wait and find out what LE has on them, how strong the evidence is and they hope their lawyers can convince a jury they are innocent. It is not up to the defense to prove guilt as we know, but the defense will have the option to call their own witnesses, give their own opening and closing statements, cross examine the Crown's witnesses, with the intention of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. The guilty do not talk because they believe they have a better chance of getting off such severe charges through a trial, then admitting guilt in which they will receive an automatic life sentence of 25 years for first degree murder. So with all that, yes, it is absolutely the best thing for DM to keep his mouth shut and plead not guilty. He has no other choice if he's hoping not to spend the rest of his life in prison. It's not a hard theory to grasp honestly. DM is remaining tight lipped and did not cooperate because he knows he is facing the rest of his life exactly where he doesn't want to be. Sucks to be him; you do the crime, you do the time.

DM knows what he is up against. Once DP goes over the all the evidence with DM, we will find, if he has some squeezing or wiggle room, he will most definitely roll on MS, no doubt about it in my mind. MS will do the same to DM if the evidence is not clear who did the actual murder. Bottom line is, they are both going away for at least 25 years IMHO. DM's lawyer has got a huge amount of work ahead of him trying to explain away some of the evidence we are privy to right now. The Crown will be sure to include these queries; Why did he have an incinerator on his property, why a burner phone in a bogus name and used to contact people who were stealing Dodge trucks, why stolen vehicles in the hangar, why is LB missing, why did his father supposedly commit suicide when things seemed to be on the up and up with Millardair (huge potential contracts), his financial situation and many more.

In Tori S's case, MR pled not guilty and also kept his mouth shut, why not?! It was the only hope in heck that he had to possibly walk free or get a lighter sentence. He knew and still knows he was the mastermind, manipulator and instigator in that case. He knew the evidence was strong and pointed right at him . Otherwise we would have rolled TLM and tried to plea bargain even though she admitted to LE she was involved. The Crown would have never accepted a plea bargain as they had direct evidence to prove he was the driving force behind Tori's abduction, rape, torture and murder. HTH and MOO.

I am A OK with these remaining silent. Go ahead and have your rights to a fair trial Mr. Millard. Glad to know DM will be paying his own expenses throughout this trial. Well unless the well is dry. I'm sure DP will skim his fair share right off the top, and so be it. At least it won't all come out of taxpayers' pockets as it happens in too many cases. JMHO.

 

[Juballee]

Many, such as I and LE have put forth the theory DM and MS are guilty of murdering Tim. Many suspect DM is not talking because he is guilty of the murder. Most times than not, the guilty just don't talk. Plain and simple and totally understandable. They would prefer to wait and find out what LE has on them, how strong the evidence is and they hope their lawyers can convince a jury they are innocent. It is not up to the defense to prove guilt as we know, but the defense will have the option to call their own witnesses, give their own opening and closing statements, cross examine the Crown's witnesses, with the intention of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. The guilty do not talk because they believe they have a better chance of getting off such severe charges through a trial, then admitting guilt in which they will receive an automatic life sentence of 25 years for first degree murder. So with all that, yes, it is absolutely the best thing for DM to keep his mouth shut and plead not guilty. He has no other choice if he's hoping not to spend the rest of his life in prison. It's not a hard theory to grasp honestly. DM is remaining tight lipped and did not cooperate because he knows he is facing the rest of his life exactly where he doesn't want to be. Sucks to be him; you do the crime, you do the time.

DM knows what he is up against. Once DP goes over the all the evidence with DM, we will find, if he has some squeezing or wiggle room, he will most definitely roll on MS, no doubt about it in my mind. MS will do the same to DM if the evidence is not clear who did the actual murder. Bottom line is, they are both going away for at least 25 years IMHO. DM's lawyer has got a huge amount of work ahead of him trying to explain away some of the evidence we are privy to right now. The Crown will be sure to include these queries; Why did he have an incinerator on his property, why a burner phone in a bogus name and used to contact people who were stealing Dodge trucks, why stolen vehicles in the hangar, why is LB missing, why did his father supposedly commit suicide when things seemed to be on the up and up with Millardair (huge potential contracts), his financial situation and many more.

In Tori S's case, MR pled not guilty and also kept his mouth shut, why not?! It was the only hope in heck that he had to possibly walk free or get a lighter sentence. He knew and still knows he was the mastermind, manipulator and instigator in that case. He knew the evidence was strong and pointed right at him . Otherwise we would have rolled TLM and tried to plea bargain even though she admitted to LE she was involved. The Crown would have never accepted a plea bargain as they had direct evidence to prove he was the driving force behind Tori's abduction, rape, torture and murder. HTH and MOO.

I am A OK with these remaining silent. Go ahead and have your rights to a fair trial Mr. Millard. Glad to know DM will be paying his own expenses throughout this trial. Well unless the well is dry. I'm sure DP will skim his fair share right off the top, and so be it. At least it won't all come out of taxpayers' pockets as it happens in too many cases. JMHO.

I am trying to see if your assertation that "Most times than not, the guilty just don't talk", and I am not finding that yet, although I am finding some interesting articles on the perception of guilt that is associated with using your right to remain silent. (These are American articles, so there would be some differences and the precedents do not count here, but interesting just the same)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130626113422.htm

http://www.care2.com/causes/your-right-to-remain-silent-means-youre-guilty.html

Can you please post some links that verify that guilty people actually do remain silent most of the time, because so far even these cases that I have read seem to have the defendant speaking to the police initially. In my opinion, usually people who think that they can outsmart police and forensics when it comes to destroying and hiding evidence also think that they are smart enough to talk their way out of it and have their lies prepared in advance, rehearsed in their minds many times to make it sound smooth, I imagine.

 

[Carli]

Many, such as I and LE have put forth the theory DM and MS are guilty of murdering Tim. Many suspect DM is not talking because he is guilty of the murder. Most times than not, the guilty just don't talk. Plain and simple and totally understandable. They would prefer to wait and find out what LE has on them, how strong the evidence is and they hope their lawyers can convince a jury they are innocent. It is not up to the defense to prove guilt as we know, but the defense will have the option to call their own witnesses, give their own opening and closing statements, cross examine the Crown's witnesses, with the intention of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. The guilty do not talk because they believe they have a better chance of getting off such severe charges through a trial, then admitting guilt in which they will receive an automatic life sentence of 25 years for first degree murder. So with all that, yes, it is absolutely the best thing for DM to keep his mouth shut and plead not guilty. He has no other choice if he's hoping not to spend the rest of his life in prison. It's not a hard theory to grasp honestly. DM is remaining tight lipped and did not cooperate because he knows he is facing the rest of his life exactly where he doesn't want to be. Sucks to be him; you do the crime, you do the time.

DM knows what he is up against. Once DP goes over the all the evidence with DM, we will find, if he has some squeezing or wiggle room, he will most definitely roll on MS, no doubt about it in my mind. MS will do the same to DM if the evidence is not clear who did the actual murder. Bottom line is, they are both going away for at least 25 years IMHO. DM's lawyer has got a huge amount of work ahead of him trying to explain away some of the evidence we are privy to right now. The Crown will be sure to include these queries; Why did he have an incinerator on his property, why a burner phone in a bogus name and used to contact people who were stealing Dodge trucks, why stolen vehicles in the hangar, why is LB missing, why did his father supposedly commit suicide when things seemed to be on the up and up with Millardair (huge potential contracts), his financial situation and many more.

In Tori S's case, MR pled not guilty and also kept his mouth shut, why not?! It was the only hope in heck that he had to possibly walk free or get a lighter sentence. He knew and still knows he was the mastermind, manipulator and instigator in that case. He knew the evidence was strong and pointed right at him . Otherwise we would have rolled TLM and tried to plea bargain even though she admitted to LE she was involved. The Crown would have never accepted a plea bargain as they had direct evidence to prove he was the driving force behind Tori's abduction, rape, torture and murder. HTH and MOO.

I am A OK with these remaining silent. Go ahead and have your rights to a fair trial Mr. Millard. Glad to know DM will be paying his own expenses throughout this trial. Well unless the well is dry. I'm sure DP will skim his fair share right off the top, and so be it. At least it won't all come out of taxpayers' pockets as it happens in too many cases. JMHO.

I always pay special attention to your posts swedie even though I've found them to be upsetting sometimes. <modsnip> I realize you're undoubtedly hampered to some extent by the PB. However, I wonder if you can share one detail, which I don't think would be included in the PB. It's been several months sincee the arrest. Can you confirm that DM has not or is not "talking" to LE? Also, do you know if bail has been requested and the current status of that request? Finally, you and others frequently mention the TS case which, I finally understand, is that case where the little Ontario girl was brutalized and killed. Is there some suggestion that DM and or MS had something to do with this?

Thanks.

 

[Snoofo]

Funny the TS case is mentioned again. It was a difficult one to fathom from the start and it never got easier in fact it was harder and harder to understand and to stomach as time went by. I don't think little Tori will be forgotten by anyone in this province who was around to even casually follow the case. Who can get over that? I can't. Thinking about her brings every emotion to surface. Thinking about MR and TLM gets my blood pressure going. I get sick to my stomach thinking of the testimony as to what happened. They were sicker than anyone initially thought.

My fear is, though, that some posters in TB forum who were very intensely and emotionally involved in that case have been comparing this case to that one and there have been an awful lot of comparisons of DM and MR made. I just hope the anger has not been displaced. One may not get over the hatred of MR, especially when so much more sick information was revealed about him after he was convicted that was not allowed to be submitted as evidence, but it would not be fair to project that anger on to anybody else.

I know the anger regarding Tori is coming from big, caring hearts in here, don't get me wrong. Just remember though the hideous accusations once placed adamantly against Tori's mom just because people didnt think she was behaving the way she should have on tv. That rush to judgement. Just because somebody doesnt behave the way you think we should does not make that person guilty and it does not mean we know what that person is actually thinking or feeling. Doubt everyone, sure, thats a sleuth's nature, but don't crucify so soon.

This has been on my mind for some time so I thought I'd take this opportunity to give my two cents.

DM is not MR.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[Snoofo]

Many, such as I and LE have put forth the theory DM and MS are guilty of murdering Tim. Many suspect DM is not talking because he is guilty of the murder. Most times than not, the guilty just don't talk. Plain and simple and totally understandable. They would prefer to wait and find out what LE has on them, how strong the evidence is and they hope their lawyers can convince a jury they are innocent. It is not up to the defense to prove guilt as we know, but the defense will have the option to call their own witnesses, give their own opening and closing statements, cross examine the Crown's witnesses, with the intention of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. The guilty do not talk because they believe they have a better chance of getting off such severe charges through a trial, then admitting guilt in which they will receive an automatic life sentence of 25 years for first degree murder. So with all that, yes, it is absolutely the best thing for DM to keep his mouth shut and plead not guilty. He has no other choice if he's hoping not to spend the rest of his life in prison. It's not a hard theory to grasp honestly. DM is remaining tight lipped and did not cooperate because he knows he is facing the rest of his life exactly where he doesn't want to be. Sucks to be him; you do the crime, you do the time.

DM knows what he is up against. Once DP goes over the all the evidence with DM, we will find, if he has some squeezing or wiggle room, he will most definitely roll on MS, no doubt about it in my mind. MS will do the same to DM if the evidence is not clear who did the actual murder. Bottom line is, they are both going away for at least 25 years IMHO. DM's lawyer has got a huge amount of work ahead of him trying to explain away some of the evidence we are privy to right now. The Crown will be sure to include these queries; Why did he have an incinerator on his property, why a burner phone in a bogus name and used to contact people who were stealing Dodge trucks, why stolen vehicles in the hangar, why is LB missing, why did his father supposedly commit suicide when things seemed to be on the up and up with Millardair (huge potential contracts), his financial situation and many more.

In Tori S's case, MR pled not guilty and also kept his mouth shut, why not?! It was the only hope in heck that he had to possibly walk free or get a lighter sentence. He knew and still knows he was the mastermind, manipulator and instigator in that case. He knew the evidence was strong and pointed right at him . Otherwise we would have rolled TLM and tried to plea bargain even though she admitted to LE she was involved. The Crown would have never accepted a plea bargain as they had direct evidence to prove he was the driving force behind Tori's abduction, rape, torture and murder. HTH and MOO.

I am A OK with these remaining silent. Go ahead and have your rights to a fair trial Mr. Millard. Glad to know DM will be paying his own expenses throughout this trial. Well unless the well is dry. I'm sure DP will skim his fair share right off the top, and so be it. At least it won't all come out of taxpayers' pockets as it happens in too many cases. JMHO.

Yes I guess its a comfort he is footing his own bill. Do you know it costs Cdn taxpayers $113,000 PER YEAR, PER INMATE in our jails? (Drives me crazy when they keep cutting funding to special education and community supports that could turn some futures around before vulnerable kids turn to crime). This is one of many reasons why LE best get all the facts straight and the murderer right. No stone unturned as they say. The only way to bring justice to Tim is not to put someone away, it is to put the murderer(s) away. If it's DM and MS, then let them pay the time and lose their lives as they knew them...if it's not one or both, then its not good enough to take an eye for an eye if it's not the correct eye being taken!
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/28/it-costs-113000-a-year-to-lodge-a-federal-prisoner-report

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[robynhood]

Snoof..interesting post #707,708....I think we have compared TORI trial to the tim Bosma case ...as again we have a PB and suspects in JAIL NOT talking...and both brutal murders again here in ONT....IMO...and we saw how Steve Harper handled the request for the Dealth Penalty ( was called Tori LAW) that when there is unquestioned evidence that the deed was commited a petition was sent with the required signatures for it at least to enter PARLIAMENT for discussion. UNfortunately he DENIED IT ....it is on FB that a letter was written back to the ORG committee denying it....goggle Victoria STrafford's name a memorial page will come up...the letter is posted there....I personally was very upset....so we as tax payers will continue to keep these alive in prison....written to answer your question Snoof....broke my <3 robynhood....oh by the way ...my signature a quote from Rodney ( Tori;s dad)...was the HOPE IN 5 YEARS THAT VERY LAW would change ...........!..DENIED BY Steve Harper ......

 

[dizzy1]

People in Solitary Confinement are often out of their 'cell' for various reasons, not least during the transportation from the jail to the courthouse, where they would be alongside others during the process of being checked (naked) hence vulnerable, whilst being redressed in their own clothing. This period may take up to 30 mins and then they would wait for their transportation together. At the courthouse they are sometimes placed in a holding cell with others, not always but it happens.

Contraband does get into the jails and there would be many opportunities to ensure that 'something occurs'.... It may also come as a surprise to some people ...but guards are known to participate in providing drugs and presenting convenient situations. It would be naive imo to think otherwise.... there was a case just last week in Southern Ontario where this situation was in the press. There are many stories like this....and although it's desirable to think that all public servants are pure and innocent.... stories like the one below appear to show otherwise... JMO


link:

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/08/16/j...mons-brought-into-prison-were-for-trafficking

'''''''''''But a judge has decided she&#8217;s part of a far more troubling issue at London&#8217;s embattled provincial jail &#8212; inmates who smuggle in drugs for guards, in return for special treatment.''''''''''

&#8220;She hid the drugs so that they would enter with her coat, which would be stored in another part of the jail. Someone who had access would then pick them up and the consideration would be transferred at a later time,&#8221; Rabley said in his judgment this week.'''''

IMO, jail is a scary place. Lucky for DM, his lawyer states they are treating him well, and keeping him safe in Barton Street: :jail:

Paradkar said he has no complaints about his client&#8217;s treatment in jail.
&#8220;They have treated him with respect and maintained his security,&#8221; he said

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/13/tim_bosma_murder_trial_could_be_held_in_late_2014.html


JMO, but I'm glad they're protecting him, I don't want anything happening to him before he receives a fair trial. Hopefully MS (who seems to be forgotten about) is being kept safe as well. JMO

 

[swedie]

Funny the TS case is mentioned again. It was a difficult one to fathom from the start and it never got easier in fact it was harder and harder to understand and to stomach as time went by. I don't think little Tori will be forgotten by anyone in this province who was around to even casually follow the case. Who can get over that? I can't. Thinking about her brings every emotion to surface. Thinking about MR and TLM gets my blood pressure going. I get sick to my stomach thinking of the testimony as to what happened. They were sicker than anyone initially thought.

My fear is, though, that some posters in TB forum who were very intensely and emotionally involved in that case have been comparing this case to that one and there have been an awful lot of comparisons of DM and MR made. I just hope the anger has not been displaced. One may not get over the hatred of MR, especially when so much more sick information was revealed about him after he was convicted that was not allowed to be submitted as evidence, but it would not be fair to project that anger on to anybody else.

I know the anger regarding Tori is coming from big, caring hearts in here, don't get me wrong. Just remember though the hideous accusations once placed adamantly against Tori's mom just because people didnt think she was behaving the way she should have on tv. That rush to judgement. Just because somebody doesnt behave the way you think we should does not make that person guilty and it does not mean we know what that person is actually thinking or feeling. Doubt everyone, sure, thats a sleuth's nature, but don't crucify so soon.

This has been on my mind for some time so I thought I'd take this opportunity to give my two cents.

DM is not MR.

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BBM Yes I do refer to the TS every so often, and it is typically in relation to how some people who closely followed the case on WS were either defending the MR, criticizing LE who worked on this case, made accusations against Tori's mother; just to note I WAS NOT ONE OF THOSE BTW. The fact MR also refused to speak with LE after his arrest and may I add we all know where that got him...a trial and a conviction. Although that case also had a PB, there was enough information released to the public to strongly suggest MR's guilt. Although it has not been made public knowledge, MR has had psychiatric evaluations (it is the norm), we can deduce from his actions before, during and after what happened to Tori by his hands, is what someone with severe mental disorders would do.

Just to clarify, my intentions are not displaced, nor do I carry anger as you seem to suggest, so I HTH to set that straight in your mind. My intention is to sleuth like everyone else here to determine whether the two accused are capable of committing such a sickening crime. As far as I am concerned, by what we know thus far, I for one do believe they are very capable. HTH. We are not a court of law and do not have to go by the "innocent until proven guilty" mentality. Here we are free to express our opinions, theories and the like. I for one like to give credit to our LE and believe they do not rush to judgement and throw people in jail on such serious charges, without having sufficient evidence. IMHO. Enough information has been released to the public to give a good indication as to what happened in TB's case. This is exactly what happened in the TS case. Now it's just up to us to figure out the whys, what, where, how ect. All :moo:

Note to Carli in relation to your post. I don't know where that last question comes from...DM and MS having something to do with TS's case. MR's case is done and over with, no connection. IMO DM has still not spoken to LE, just his lawyer and no his lawyer will not ask for bail as these case generally do not make it anyhow. MOO.

 

[Snoofo]

BBM Yes I do refer to the TS every so often, and it is typically in relation to how some people who closely followed the case on WS were either defending the MR, criticizing LE who worked on this case, made accusations against Tori's mother; just to note I WAS NOT ONE OF THOSE BTW. The fact MR also refused to speak with LE after his arrest and may I add we all know where that got him...a trial and a conviction. Although that case also had a PB, there was enough information released to the public to strongly suggest MR's guilt. Although it has not been made public knowledge, MR has had psychiatric evaluations (it is the norm), we can deduce from his actions before, during and after what happened to Tori by his hands, is what someone with severe mental disorders would do.

Just to clarify, my intentions are not displaced, nor do I carry anger as you seem to suggest, so I HTH to set that straight in your mind. My intention is to sleuth like everyone else here to determine whether the two accused are capable of committing such a sickening crime. As far as I am concerned, by what we know thus far, I for one do believe they are very capable. HTH. We are not a court of law and do not have to go by the "innocent until proven guilty" mentality. Here we are free to express our opinions, theories and the like. I for one like to give credit to our LE and believe they do not rush to judgement and throw people in jail on such serious charges, without having sufficient evidence. IMHO. Enough information has been released to the public to give a good indication as to what happened in TB's case. This is exactly what happened in the TS case. Now it's just up to us to figure out the whys, what, where, how ect. All :moo:

Note to Carli in relation to your post. I don't know where that last question comes from...DM and MS having something to do with TS's case. MR's case is done and over with, no connection. IMO DM has still not spoken to LE, just his lawyer and no his lawyer will not ask for bail as these case generally do not make it anyhow. MOO.

Oh dear. In no way was I trying to offend by my observation; like I said it appears that anything I observed was coming from big hearts (as opposed to coming from a bad place). To be perfectly honest swedie as much as we disagree I always read your posts feeling you are someone with a big heart, a good person. I do not get the impression that you are hateful but the mention of MR and that whole case is enough for me to feel that the resentment is being harboured and forgive me if I was mistaken about it being displaced. I am actually glad to hear that I am wrong about that.

So far as similarities in the cases, yes it has been mentioned there were defenders of MR. MR also didnt speak to LE. Also highlighted in discussions here were DM/MR similarities in perceived character, education, and even the mutual interest in cooking is a comment that stands out. MR's defenders were wrong about him in the end. Again that doesnt mean the same thing must be happening here. Sure it may, but not necessarily.

When thinking of people who were innocent with some evidence pointing their way, but were presumed VERY guilty by just about everyone for remaining silent (thereby "not assisting" the investigation into dead babies in this case which sounds horrible already), I have two words: Susan Nelles. A precedent case that is dear to my heart.

All because she might have taken "Law 101" and knew anything she says, even clearly PROVING HER OWN INNOCENCE , can AND WILL be twisted and used against her.

Thats the case that drives it home for me. Babies died and she was not talking ... boy did a lot of people get that one wrong.

By the way, in no way was I under the impression anyone here was against TM (Tori's mom) but I am sure we can all remember her being raked over the coals by many INCLUDING some opinionated MSM
(some whom I think have resurfaced in TB case) in the same way Nancy Grace would have done in the US.

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[Blomquist]

IMO, jail is a scary place. Lucky for DM, his lawyer states they are treating him well, and keeping him safe in Barton Street: :jail:


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/13/tim_bosma_murder_trial_could_be_held_in_late_2014.html


JMO, but I'm glad they're protecting him, I don't want anything happening to him before he receives a fair trial. Hopefully MS (who seems to be forgotten about) is being kept safe as well. JMO

I doubt many would voice anything bad about a place whilst locked inside.... Can you imagine saying they were giving you crap food and not letting you shower daily (which is actually the case from what I have heard)....I would imagine your rations would get smaller and your showers even less.. JMO

 

[Blomquist]

BBM

We are not a court of law and do not have to go by the "innocent until proven guilty" mentality. Here we are free to express our opinions, theories and the like. I for one like to give credit to our LE and believe they do not rush to judgement and throw people in jail on such serious charges, without having sufficient evidence.
Note to Carli in relation to your post. I don't know where that last question comes from...DM and MS having something to do with TS's case. MR's case is done and over with, no connection. IMO DM has still not spoken to LE, just his lawyer and no his lawyer will not ask for bail as these case generally do not make it anyhow. MOO.

Innocent unless proven guilty is not a 'mentality'...it is a RIGHT !!!!! We are all supposed to be given that right.

IMO the constant comparisons to Tori's case are rather misguided. This is not Tori's case. That case was over a year or more ago and that dear child can now hopefully rest in peace. This case is another case and needs to judged at trial as such and in the court of presumed public opinion I belive that ALL people have a right to remain silent and they have a right to be presumed innocent. That is not a mentality ..these are rights !!! Whether people choose to respect those rights is another matter. Whilst I am sleuthing this case I always keep in mind someones right to be presumed innocent. By not doing so I would be being unjust and denying someone their rights. Also I would be assuming the position of judge jury and executioner all before trial.... That is just my opinion and I can only speak for myself... Other people must make their own decisions on how they conduct themselves and how they think. MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Innocent unless proven guilty is not a 'mentality'...it is a RIGHT !!!!! We are all supposed to be given that right.

DM will legally be presumed innocent unless proven guilty in a court of law.

As free-thinkers who are not part of that judicial process, Section 2(b) of the Constitution also states that "Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ... freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression ..."

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 19 also states "everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference ... "

 

[Blomquist]

DM will legally be presumed innocent unless proven guilty in a court of law.

As free-thinkers who are not part of that judicial process, Section 2(b) of the Constitution also states that "Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ... freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression ..."

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 19 also states "everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference ... "

Sorry but IMO rights are not limited to the courtroom....
yes freedom of expression etc is fine.... but when used to deny another their rights that freedom now becomes discrimination. Like I said..its my opinion.... For example lets say someone has an 'opinion' about gender orientation.... Can we as people justify calling out obscenities based on our right to free speech or freedom of expression to accuse people of being 'freaks' and guilty of some abnormality as sits with our bias? OR do they have RIGHTS ???????? IMO Rights are rights...... anyone who violates anothers rights is guilty of a crime....imo. Causing someone harm, loss or injury by way of judgmentalism, discrimination or defamation is a criminal offense in my opinion.... Like I also said...how people choose to conduct themselves or their thinking process is entirely up to them...... my opinion is as valid as anyone elses....and this is MOO. thank you

Under Common Law which is the Law that legislation is supposed to be based on... there is a guideline... No Harm, No Loss, No Injury. If we accuse someone of wrongdoing when they are innocent we break all three elements of this imo. If we accuse someone of being a freak of nature when they were born that way, this also violates the Common Law guideline imo.
Holding an opinion is one thing... voicing it and condemning someone is another....again..this is JUST my opinion....

 

[Sillybilly]

The right to freedom of expression and opinions is a fundamental right as set out in Section 2of the Charter; the presumption of innocence is a right contained in Section 11 of the Charter which sets out the rights you have when you are charged with an offence and treatment within the judicial system as a result of such charge. It does not override fundamental rights of average citizens outside of the judicial system having an opinion:

from:
http://www.charterofrights.ca/en/16_00_02

Section 11 - Rights when charged with an offence
Section 11 rights are basic principles of criminal law - like being presumed innocent, the right to a speedy trial and the independence of the Courts.

If you are charged with a criminal offence you have the right:

&#8226;To be informed of the offence without unreasonable delay
&#8226;To a trial in a reasonable time
&#8226;To be silent (the right not to testify at your own trial)
&#8226;To be presumed innocent until proven guilty
&#8226;To a fair and public hearing by an impartial and independent court.
&#8226;To reasonable bail (unless there is good reason to be refused bail)
&#8226; To trial by jury for serious crimes (except for military offences decided by a military tribunal)
&#8226;Not to be convicted of a crime unless the act was a crime at the time it happened
&#8226; Not to be tried or punished twice for the same crime (the rule against double jeopardy)

 

[Blomquist]

The right to freedom of expression and opinions is a fundamental right as set out in Section 2of the Charter; the presumption of innocence is a right contained in Section 11 of the Charter which sets out the rights you have when you are charged with an offence and treatment within the judicial system as a result of such charge. It does not override fundamental rights of average citizens outside of the judicial system having an opinion:

from:
http://www.charterofrights.ca/en/16_00_02

Excuse me.... are you suggesting that rights only apply if written on a piece of paper (constitution, charter etc)? They included those rights into those documents as those are rights that are to be afforded everyone at all times.... if not then we would become a world of bandits... Just because rights are not written down in the way we would like them to be does not mean that we do not have them.... There are also INHERENT rights.... they are not written down either...and if anyone has written them down the fact that they have been written down does not reinforce what is already a right.

A right cannot be arbitrarily taken and turned into a privilege for the benefit of another. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Excuse me.... are you suggesting that rights only apply if written on a piece of paper (constitution, charter etc)? They included those rights into those documents as those are rights that are to be afforded everyone at all times.... if not then we would become a world of bandits... Just because rights are not written down in the way we would like them to be does not mean that we do not have them.... There are also INHERENT rights.... they are not written down either...and if anyone has written them down the fact that they have been written down does not reinforce what is already a right.

A right cannot be arbitrarily taken and turned into a privilege for the benefit of another. JMO

The Charter is what it is, so you'll have to take that up with the Charter people. IT specifically sets out that the right which you are so concerned about is a right when someone is charged with an offence.

You can disagree with the Charter all you like or put your own spin on it, and you have the right to express that disagreement, but nobody has the right to tell others how to think, including me

WS would not exist if we could only talk about an accused being innocent.

This must be boring for other WSrs, so I will end my contribution to the topic.

 

[ArianeEmory]

As a point of reference, what makes DM specially deserving of having his rights defended here? I don't see other accused criminals, even Canadian ones, receiving the same care and attention. Surely ones with less financial means to defend themselves are equally deserving of concern for their putative innocence.

I think if we could understand what is so special about DM, some of these conversations may be less rancorous.