General Discussion and Theories

[Archangel7]

As many logicians have learned, sometimes to their dismay, Occam's Razor is easily broken by facts. Moreover, an incorrect use of Occam's Razor only leads to a perpetuation and corroboration of existing prejudice, and this principle should not be used to easily get rid of unwelcome data or concepts. Perhaps you're referring the to the adage called Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. IMO,"Heinlein's Razor", (attributed to Albert Einstein) may be more appropriate here - Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice.

No. I meant Occam's Razor, and in this way... that the simplest or the less complicated or the less number of assumptions the better, until or unless that idea, hypothesis hits a dead end.

 

[finder108]

No I don't believe the reason for charging is resting on the body being at the farm. It is resting on the tattoo imo.Yes they do need to show who killed and how. It will help the prosecution if they can show a weapon and/or show proof of strangulation ,assault etc etc. You do not know at this point who stole/took/hid the truck so I fail to see how this can possibly be enough to charge. They are hinging their charges on circumstantial evidence IMO

I am so sad about this case. I used to live in Brantford.

I'm really interested in your reasoning. There are so many different ways of looking at things. I thought it was the burner phone that led LE to arrest DM.

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/15/millard-to-face-1st-degree-murder-charge-in-bosmas-death/

:twocents:

 

[Coldpizza]

I am so sad about this case. I used to live in Brantford.

I'm really interested in your reasoning. There are so many different ways of looking at things. I thought it was the burner phone that led LE to arrest DM.

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/15/millard-to-face-1st-degree-murder-charge-in-bosmas-death/

:twocents:

:greetings: to you as well finder108!

Welcome to WS

 

[bessie]

I am so sad about this case. I used to live in Brantford.

I'm really interested in your reasoning. There are so many different ways of looking at things. I thought it was the burner phone that led LE to arrest DM.

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/15/millard-to-face-1st-degree-murder-charge-in-bosmas-death/

:twocents:

Welcome, finder108.

From your link.

Bosma’s cellphone was found three days later in an industrial area of Brantford.
The cellphone led investigators to Millard, police said.

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/15/millard-to-face-1st-degree-murder-charge-in-bosmas-death/

and to add:

Investigators have now obtained cellphone records for the number they believe the men called Bosma from, a phone registered under “a bogus name.” Kavanagh said the phone has been “turned off” since it was used to call Bosma.
However, through the phone records police identified a Toronto man who took the same two men for a test drive in his vehicle — which is “similar to Bosma’s” and was also advertised for sale online — a day before the Ancaster man vanished.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/10/missing-hamilton-man-tim-bosnas-cell-phone-found-in-brantford

 

[Carli]

No. I meant Occam's Razor, and in this way... that the simplest or the less complicated or the less number of assumptions the better, until or unless that idea, hypothesis hits a dead end.

Believe me, I fully understand what you mean. However, when applying a specific logical analysis to real life problems it is essential to understand the concept's limitations. In its correct application, Occam's razor is used to adjudicate between theories that have already passed "theoretical scrutiny" tests, and which are equally well-supported by the evidence. Galileo's view was that if you really wanted to consider only the simplest of entities, you would always consider the letters of the alphabet as the fundamental entities, since you could construct the whole of human knowledge out of them. We're getting off track IMO except to say that in the present absence of well supported evidence, Occam's Razor is inapplicable, imo.

 

[Blomquist]

There is going to be prints/DNA in TB's truck
There is going to be prints on the trailer from the last person to touch each door handle
The burner phone was used carelessly and will have record of calls to several people selling trucks, plus a selection of the user's closest friends who could easily be fooled into revealing whose phone it is ("I've found a lost phone...")
The mystery of who took TB unraveled incredibly quickly (first arrest within a week)
I think DP is going to have to come up with one heck of a story to cover all the evidence found and still assert DM's "innocence"
...especially the part about the incinerator.

Sounds like an awful lot is suspected about what is going to be found... those are quite the predictions !

Maybe all DP has to 'come up with' is the truth..... and it just may be a slam dunk in favour of the defense (which would mean back to the drawing board).... we shall see I guess

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sounds like an awful lot is suspected about what is going to be found... those are quite the predictions !

Maybe all DP has to 'come up with' is the truth..... and it just may be a slam dunk in favour of the defense (which would mean back to the drawing board).... we shall see I guess

Sorry, moo, moo, moo

But if there is an innocent person in this story:

Why did DM and MS, together, park the Yukon somewhere other than TB's driveway?

Imagine DM is driving and MS kills TB before DM has a chance to pull over. DM is totally shocked. Then the next thing that they do is drive in tandem all the way through Brantford? If I were an innocent DM I would have hopped in the Yukon and took off in the opposite direction, yessir...

Imagine instead that they swap drivers and MS barrels off in TB's truck with TB without letting DM back in. DM walks back to wherever the Yukon is and pursues. MS kills TB as he is speeding away, uh huh, really, and the two vehicles are seen driving in tandem through Brantford...

Two people, two vehicles, traveling together, with a common purpose.

DP has already granted LE has arrested a guy that was there. So what series of events could possibly have happened to absolve DM of any guilt? How could he be there, but not for any of the real action, "100% not guilty" as DP says, "shocked", "remorseful", "used" and "taken advantage of". MS hijacked BOTH DM and TB? And then the two vehicles drove in tandem through Brantford...

It doesn't really matter who did what because MS and DM acted in concert before the crime (parking away from TB's home and walking) and after (seen driving together in at least some of the 30 security videos LE dug up.)

moo

 

[Blomquist]

Sorry, moo, moo, moo

But if there is an innocent person in this story:

Why did DM and MS, together, park the Yukon somewhere other than TB's driveway?

Imagine DM is driving and MS kills TB before DM has a chance to pull over. DM is totally shocked. Then the next thing that they do is drive in tandem all the way through Brantford? If I were an innocent DM I would have hopped in the Yukon and took off in the opposite direction, yessir...

Imagine instead that they swap drivers and MS barrels off in TB's truck with TB without letting DM back in. DM walks back to wherever the Yukon is and pursues. MS kills TB as he is speeding away, uh huh, really, and the two vehicles are seen driving in tandem through Brantford...

Two people, two vehicles, traveling together, with a common purpose.

DP has already granted LE has arrested a guy that was there. So what series of events could possibly have happened to absolve DM of any guilt? How could he be there, but not for any of the real action, "100% not guilty" as DP says, "shocked", "remorseful", "used" and "taken advantage of". MS hijacked BOTH DM and TB? And then the two vehicles drove in tandem through Brantford...

It doesn't really matter who did what because MS and DM acted in concert before the crime (parking away from TB's home and walking) and after (seen driving together in at least some of the 30 security videos LE dug up.)

moo

this is just a theory of yours as you say It doesn't make sense to me at all insofar as acting in concert but time will tell... 'Acting in concert' ,that phrase is used so often in legislation (Acts and statutes) it has a real ring to it I think IMO... How many videos have they actually dug up Snooper??? Did you actually see these videos with them driving together ???

 

[SnooperDuper]

this is just a theory of yours as you say It doesn't make sense to me at all insofar as acting in concert but time will tell... 'Acting in concert' ,that phrase is used so often in legislation (Acts and statutes) it has a real ring to it I think IMO... How many videos have they actually dug up Snooper??? Did you actually see these videos with them driving together ???

2 out of 3 ain't bad?

Earlier in the investigation, there were five police officers assigned to review 30 security video tapes that captured images of Bosma's truck on May 6, the night he was abducted

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder

Police are also looking for at least one more person, as video evidence shows another vehicle following Bosma's pickup truck when he left on the test drive, Kavanagh said. Police haven't been able to make out the vehicle's model from the footage, only that it is an "SUV-type vehicle," and don't know how many people were in there.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/First+degree+murder+charge+laid+death+took+test+drive/8384355/story.html#ixzz2VmHQRFvk

 

[finder108]

:greetings: to you as well finder108!

Welcome to WS

Thanks for making me feel welcome, Coldpizza

:drumroll:

 

[finder108]

Welcome, finder108.

From your link.
http://www.680news.com/2013/05/15/millard-to-face-1st-degree-murder-charge-in-bosmas-death/

and to add:
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/10/missing-hamilton-man-tim-bosnas-cell-phone-found-in-brantford

Thanks so much for the welcome Bessie.

:seeya:

 

[ReignBRF]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...o_suspects_in_spate_of_luxury_car_thefts.html
I have been following the postings on this site for a while more as a quick source to keep updated on any news..I have read some very interesting theories about the case but I wonder if this isn't being over thought. I am of the mindset that it was a simple car jack gone wrong..plain and simple. There is a good chance that Tim panicked and jumped from the moving vehicle when he realized what was going down. He may have been badly hurt or killed, then put into the back of the truck, they backtracked to pick up the second vehicle and then with no clear cut plan drove away with Tim..what followed is pretty clear..a couple of punks trying to get rid of the evidence..I couldn't help but notice the resemblance between the video of a high end car thief that the TPD was seeking public assistance in Dec 2012 and MS. It would make sense that DM would have connections to this social set and be aware of vacations and what not..JMO

I think that the passenger locks went on from the get go and that probably set the mood that something was going terribly wrong. There is nothing worse than thinking you are trapped. In this situation, things could have escalated very fast.

 

[bessie]

I think that the passenger locks went on from the get go and that probably set the mood that something was going terribly wrong. There is nothing worse than thinking you are trapped. In this situation, things could have escalated very fast.

That's a thought which crossed my mind.

I'd love to know what the Etobicoke seller found suspicious that hasn't been shared with the public.

That man told police he was immediately suspicious of the men because he saw them walk to his business, which is located in an industrial area. The men wanted to test drive his Dodge Ram – the same vehicle that Bosma listed for sale.

Kavanagh wouldn’t say what else made the witness suspicious but confirmed the Etobicoke man was not harmed by the suspects.

Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/bosma-s-ce...w-details-on-suspects-1.1275631#ixzz2VmXABPFc
​

 

[THXGuru]

That's a thought which crossed my mind.

I'd love to know what the Etobicoke seller found suspicious that hasn't been shared with the public.

Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/bosma-s-ce...w-details-on-suspects-1.1275631#ixzz2VmXABPFc
​

Bessie, it is interesting to go back and read some of the earlier articles and statements by LE.

One of them was to encourage businesses to look at their security tape and look for the truck and following car passing. I wonder what has come of that by now? Also, the burner phone contact list, LE were in the process of contacting all that were contacted by that phone. What has come out of that by now? Interesting stuff.

 

[Blomquist]

LE could already hold an almost certain DNA match, if they wanted. IMO.
And/or..
LE could seek a warrant and have a Provincial Judge grant the warrant to take bodily fluids for testing. CCC..........http://yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/48705-information-warrant-take-bodily-substances

]LE could already hold an almost certain DNA match, if they wanted. IMO.
And/or..
LE could seek a warrant and have a Provincial Judge grant the warrant to take bodily fluids for testing. CCC.........

What do you mean by "if they wanted" how can they just get a match because they want it???

Why would DM's body fluids be required ??? Are you suggesting he had a bladder/bowel malfunction in the truck...

To obtain DNA all that is needed is a hair follicle/root, or a swab from the mouth.

 

[Mscree]

I've gone back and read some of the posts I do think it will be difficult for DM lawyer to explain two eye witnesses, the body on the farm the truck in your trailer at your moms place I'm wondering for the tattoo if anyone called the tip line to report DM as having a tattoo that meets that description? If its so unusual and the fact he meets the description. What lead them to MS could also be a public tip after dms arrest someone had seen the two of them together during the time of the test drives. It will be very interesting to see all the evidence LE. Has I really think they have quite a bit we don't even know. But I really am uestioning the car jacking gone wrong IMO

 

[Archangel7]

]LE could already hold an almost certain DNA match, if they wanted. IMO.
And/or..
LE could seek a warrant and have a Provincial Judge grant the warrant to take bodily fluids for testing. CCC.........

What do you mean by "if they wanted" how can they just get a match because they want it???

Why would DM's body fluids be required ??? Are you suggesting he had a bladder/bowel malfunction in the truck...

To obtain DNA all that is needed is a hair follicle/root, or a swab from the mouth.

One would need more than just a hair or a mouth swab to admit it in Court.

 

[Blomquist]

One would need more than just a hair or a mouth swab to admit it in Court.

Not if it was sent off to Alberta and had the full DNA testing done.

 

[Sillybilly]

]LE could already hold an almost certain DNA match, if they wanted. IMO.
And/or..
LE could seek a warrant and have a Provincial Judge grant the warrant to take bodily fluids for testing. CCC.........

What do you mean by "if they wanted" how can they just get a match because they want it???

Why would DM's body fluids be required ??? Are you suggesting he had a bladder/bowel malfunction in the truck...

To obtain DNA all that is needed is a hair follicle/root, or a swab from the mouth.

Perhaps they have various blood samples that they would want to compare it to .. see which samples belong to either victim or perp

 

[Archangel7]

Not if it was sent off to Alberta and had the full DNA testing done.

It won't matter where it was sent unless the sample is taken properly and under the rules of the court.
I was referring to a court order in order to make it admissible or usable in court.