General Discussion and Theories

[onlooker62]

Your first paragraph, outlining what you think transpired, I agree with as a very strong possibility and perhaps the likeliest! I think that MS, the guy who probably sat in the back, went berserk and was completely out of control (adrenaline surge mixed with fear and maybe some drugs), choking out Tim to the point of no return -- MOO. The plan was blown, they panicked, a lot of fast exchange of ideas on what to do with Tim (don't forget the effect of stress, especially stress with a time element to it), and the body of Tim was burned in a hasty effort to rid themselves of a corpse. Again, JMO.

What everyone overlooks, in my opinion, is that crimes are never perfectly planned, and that is why we have so many people incarcerated in jails, and so many ex-cons walking in our midst. Stealing a large, very visible object like a truck is risky business from the get-go and even more so when you have an owner in the truck with you. I know I keep quoting him, but James Van Allen has pointed out that DM has a risk-taker personality, according to his profile, and that he is also characterized as being exploitive. To exploit a situation is something natural to him. Plus, he's in his 20s, a young man who has done amazingly exhilarating feats from his early youth, and this will form part of his approach to challenges.

If it really does come down to this, then the proper thing to do would be to take Tim to emergency at the hospital and then turn themselves in.

Instead, their screwed up and arrogant minds were revealed when they chose to burn him.

The only element that troubles me about this scenario is why did DM own that shiny new incinerator when he had no livestock. That still requires explanation if you want to make this a spur of the moment decision.

 

[ArianeEmory]

For those on the "theft gone wrong" track (and much of it is pretty persuasive), what are your thoughts on the incinerator?

Even if we dismiss the WM and Laura Babcock cases (meaning we reject the idea of DM being a killer), I still haven't seen a viable explanation of why DM purchased an incinerator intended specifically for burning animal bodies in July 2012.

Awfully convenient to have around when the TB murder happened, though.

Edit: onlooker beat me to it.

 

[Snoofo]

Interesting...going a bit further with this train of thought, if first truck owner saw it, but said nothing then DM could go on the assumption he was basically unidentifiable, however if TB saw it and asked what it said(being that it was in the dark and not as easy to read it), DM then knows he could be identified if they went ahead with theft of the truck, so either DM or MS panics in the truck, and whatever happened from there causing TB to be killed

I don't know why but I always imagine the unscared TB turned around, looked MS right in the eyes asked something like why he was wearing his hood up at night. Since MS went through greater measures to conceal his appearance that may have riled him from an already high-adrenaline state (and possible paranoia or other feelings from narcotics that he may have needed to complete the task of carjacking). Besides, based on his positioning in TB's car and the guy's from the previous day, he was going to be the aggressor coming from behind.

 

[meadsipper]

According to Dr. Matt Logan, a former sergeant in the RCMP's behavioural sciences unit, "We've had people murdered for no good reason," he said. "I've interviewed almost a dozen guys who said it just felt like the right thing to do at the time. It's bizarre to hear that."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130527-071758.html

There are many times when, during the course of a break and enter, the homeowner discovers the guy in their house, and is injured because of panic overtaking the B&E. I personally know someone who was stabbed by a teen who was breaking into the fellow's garage. The teen panicked and used a screwdriver to stab the man so as to make an escape.

 

[meadsipper]

The only element that troubles me about this scenario is why did DM own that shiny new incinerator when he had no livestock. That still requires explanation if you want to make this a spur of the moment decision.

It's debatable, but I still am of the opinion that the incinerator was being used for destroying stolen interior vehicle parts ie. seats, plastic, foam, etc. If you look at the pics of the vehicles that they had, everything is polished and customized. They wouldn't want the original interiors. MOO

 

[swanna]

After reading my own post a couple of times, here's my theory (assuming that DM would do this, despite having enough money to buy the truck):

DM and MS fantasize about stealing a truck and chopping it. They know the 5.9L Cummins Ram is rare and worth a lot of money, so they go about finding a worthy candidate. They buy a burner phone, make a few calls, and finally settle on TB's after the failed test drive with the first guy. The plan is to take the test drive (hopefully without TB), and if he insists on coming, take his phone from him and kick him out in a remote area where it will take him a while to reach a phone to call the police. They would then take the truck to the waiting trailer, and they're gone. Unfortunately, TB fought back, and was killed in the struggle, likely by MS (as I don't think DM has it in him, and MS is more of a "" type). They panic, and attempt to get rid of all the evidence.

I think this theory works up until here... and then it breaks down. The evidence was left in such a way that if DM was identified SOMEHOW, he was toast. All of those properties were registered in his name (and I know this because I have electronic access to the land registry, and I actually identified the Roseville Road farm as his 2 days before it was reported). They scattered evidence all over his own property, and left it out in the open. If DM was an extremely stupid, ignorant person, I could almost believe this part.. but there is no indication he is that dumb. I just can't figure this part out.

:goodpost:

I'm with you on all the above.....I just can't get past the part where everything being on all his own properties either. This is where it stumps me as well.:banghead:

 

[meadsipper]

:goodpost:

I'm with you on all the above.....I just can't get past the part where everything being on all his own properties either. This is where it stumps me as well.:banghead:

To keep it hidden, they wouldn't choose to burn a corpse in a public park or someone else's property. It makes sense, from their perspective, to conceal things within the realm of the property where they could make efforts to do so. If the incinerator was already on hand at the farm, they likely saw it as handy tool to destroy Tim's corpse. JMO (However, this is based on the opinions of many who believe that the incinerator was used to burn Tim.)

 

[SnooperDuper]

The only element that troubles me about this scenario is why did DM own that shiny new incinerator when he had no livestock. That still requires explanation if you want to make this a spur of the moment decision.

Maybe look at the kind of things that this particular model excels at "eliminating":

- fairly small, maybe basketball sized items (hatch size)
- high moisture items (deadstock, fresh feces, food waste, green vegetation)
- solids (there is a grate to hold the solids inside the incinerator - not designed for liquids)

Perhaps it was planned for use with a temporary septic setup
Elimination of noxious weeds like poison ivy, invasive weeds like dog strangling vine, white mustard
...???

 

[Ernesto]

Interesting...going a bit further with this train of thought, if first truck owner saw it, but said nothing then DM could go on the assumption he was basically unidentifiable, however if TB saw it and asked what it said(being that it was in the dark and not as easy to read it), DM then knows he could be identified if they went ahead with theft of the truck, so either DM or MS panics in the truck, and whatever happened from there causing TB to be killed

Very interesting point.

What everyone overlooks, in my opinion, is that crimes are never perfectly planned, and that is why we have so many people incarcerated in jails, and so many ex-cons walking in our midst. Stealing a large, very visible object like a truck is risky business from the get-go and even more so when you have an owner in the truck with you. I know I keep quoting him, but James Van Allen has pointed out that DM has a risk-taker personality, according to his profile, and that he is also characterized as being exploitive. To exploit a situation is something natural to him. Plus, he's in his 20s, a young man who has done amazingly exhilarating feats from his early youth, and this will form part of his approach to challenges.

I totally agree, however this was not a crime of opportunity. Say what you will about them being drug-addled crazies, but if the car-theft gone bad theory is correct, they planned this for weeks. In this particular theory, they put a lot of thought into what they were going to do. I find it hard to believe that they didn't consider multiple scenarios in which there are witnesses, and the victim resists.

The only element that troubles me about this scenario is why did DM own that shiny new incinerator when he had no livestock. That still requires explanation if you want to make this a spur of the moment decision.

I'll offer up a theory on the incinerator. DM bought an old farm in 05/2011 on which he planned on building his "dream home". Incinerators are used for burning animal remains, but they are also used for efficiently burning other objects, like trash and debris:

http://www.erosionpollution.com/trashincinerator.html

He could have purchased this thing simply to help with the demolition process of taking down the old farm building, clearing bush and trees, etc. I absolutely do not buy the idea that he bought it with the intention of burning human remains.

 

[Ernesto]

To keep it hidden, they wouldn't choose to burn a corpse in a public park or someone else's property. It makes sense, from their perspective, to conceal things within the realm of the property where they could make efforts to do so. If the incinerator was already on hand at the farm, they likely saw it as handy tool to destroy Tim's corpse. JMO (However, this is based on the opinions of many who believe that the incinerator was used to burn Tim.)

Again, I agree, however the perplexing thing is that they DIDN'T conceal things. Sure, they burned his body, but authorities found everything, and this was a number of days after the crime was committed. I'm sure they would have wanted to get as far away from the crime scenes as possible, but while there was no heat on them, don't you think priority number one would be to hide ALL of the evidence, and clean all of the crime scenes as thoroughly as possible?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I guess I'll just point out that the one he bought is pretty specifically marketed for burning animal remains, not brush, and leave it at "agree to disagree" for the moment.

 

[flipflop]

To keep it hidden, they wouldn't choose to burn a corpse in a public park or someone else's property. It makes sense, from their perspective, to conceal things within the realm of the property where they could make efforts to do so. If the incinerator was already on hand at the farm, they likely saw it as handy tool to destroy Tim's corpse. JMO (However, this is based on the opinions of many who believe that the incinerator was used to burn Tim.)

A city park would be "too public", anyone could have called it in. With DM being a city boy, perhaps he thought his farm property was very secluded and felt no one would see them at the back of the property. Being a rural person, I know that neighbours watch out for others property and tend to be a bit nosey. If it was not for the neighbours, no one would have noticed, right? If he burnt everything they had in their possession, besides the truck and the phone, I feel that he truly believed he had outsmarted LE. I feel the truck was going to be stripped down or shipped away. I think the phone was a careless mistake.

 

[onlooker62]

I guess I'll just point out that the one he bought is pretty specifically marketed for burning animal remains, not brush, and leave it at "agree to disagree" for the moment.

I've tossed it around myself in an effort to make up an explanation (In the absence of ANY evidence to the affect at all) Except that I have a sibling that lives within 3 miles of that farm and I even considered buying the property across the road a few years back. I'm familiar with the area. It's still very agricultural in that area with a significant livestock presence. There is a remote chance that he was considering starting another business for one of his buddies, going from farm to farm dealing with dead stock. That would explain the need for the second truck, MS needed it to pull the incinerator.

Totally of the cuff theoretical explanation.

 

[Ernesto]

I feel the truck was going to be stripped down or shipped away.

I get this, and I agree, but in my car-theft gone wrong theory, DM didn't plan on killing anyone. However, TB is dead, which is a MUCH bigger story than a guy who had his truck ripped off. If I got away with a truck, and left the owner standing on a dirt road screaming at me, sure I'd drop it off in a trailer at my Mom's house in Etobicoke and just leave it there... but he just murdered someone, and the whole world is clamoring to find out what happened! It's hard to believe that he thought he had been so careful that he could just drop the truck off, and carry on his way for a couple more days before he was caught. It sat there for more than 30 hours, waiting to be found.

 

[THXGuru]

After reading my own post a couple of times, here's my theory (assuming that DM would do this, despite having enough money to buy the truck):

DM and MS fantasize about stealing a truck and chopping it. They know the 5.9L Cummins Ram is rare and worth a lot of money, so they go about finding a worthy candidate. They buy a burner phone, make a few calls, and finally settle on TB's after the failed test drive with the first guy. The plan is to take the test drive (hopefully without TB), and if he insists on coming, take his phone from him and kick him out in a remote area where it will take him a while to reach a phone to call the police. They would then take the truck to the waiting trailer, and they're gone. Unfortunately, TB fought back, and was killed in the struggle, likely by MS (as I don't think DM has it in him, and MS is more of a "" type). They panic, and attempt to get rid of all the evidence.

I think this theory works up until here... and then it breaks down. The evidence was left in such a way that if DM was identified SOMEHOW, he was toast. All of those properties were registered in his name (and I know this because I have electronic access to the land registry, and I actually identified the Roseville Road farm as his 2 days before it was reported). They scattered evidence all over his own property, and left it out in the open. If DM was an extremely stupid, ignorant person, I could almost believe this part.. but there is no indication he is that dumb. I just can't figure this part out.

How do you know the body was scattered on the property?

LE removed an excavator from the farm, more than likely TB was buried. Nobody would of ever found the truck or the DM MS if the cell phone and tattoo weren't clues. By the time the Ram made it to the moms house, it was likely stripped of identification.

 

[Ernesto]

How do you know the body was scattered on the property?

LE removed an excavator from the farm, more than likely TB was buried. Nobody would of ever found the truck or the DM MS if the cell phone and tattoo weren't clues. By the time the Ram made it to the moms house, it was likely stripped of identification.

I meant that they "scattered" evidence across a number of his properties. They clearly left something at the hangar, left a bunch at the farm, and the truck in the driveway. I don't doubt that they buried evidence, I'm just remarking that they clearly didn't do a very good job of it.

 

[THXGuru]

I meant that they "scattered" evidence across a number of his properties. They clearly left something at the hangar, left a bunch at the farm, and the truck in the driveway. I don't doubt that they buried evidence, I'm just remarking that they clearly didn't do a very good job of it.

The ram was chopped and modified at the hanger, this is what likely went on at the hanger.

 

[cefair]

1. Does anyone recall seeing that the "burner" phone was purchased a few months before the TB tragedy? I seem to recall that point. And it bothers me. What was the point of a "burner" phone a few months ago?

2. If it weren't for the tattoo & the phone would we even now have DM in custody? This is where the "getting away with it" falls apart. But did DM realize that? I don't think so. Thus the hubris of parking the trailer at mom's, the having of trails of evidence all over DMs properties. Think of Russell Williams leaving bootprints in snow and parking his truck where it could be seen, etc. We give far too much credit to the bad guys. And see how many of us it's taken to point out the trails left behind and question them.

3. We "sleuths" here are fairly rational people. How rational is it to "truckjack", to kill someone in the commission of said "truckjack", to burn the body instead of dumping it many miles away, to keep said truck locally instead of stashing it many miles away????

4. Detectives and criminologists of the profiler persuasion work many years to "get into" the minds of perpetrators, to see things as "perps" do. Even after decades of an amateur interest in criminal profiling and pathological behavior I cannot really go there. I can sometimes glimpse the twisted reasoning but....

5. I love logic. Analysis is one of my fortes. Good detective work is a combination of analysis/logic and a "nose" for pieces of the puzzle, so to speak. To ascribe logic to "perps" in the sense that we ordinarily use logic is, I think, giving more credit than is due. The "perp" may have what is to him/her an inner logic that defies what the rest of society could or would subscribe to. Think Paul Bernardo, Russell Williams, etc.

There. I've laid out some thoughts I've had, helped much by many of you. Thanks. All of it JMHO.

 

[THXGuru]

Does it seem most plausible that MS would be the one to do the killing? He seems like a looser cannon, riskier lifestyle than DM.

Yes, based on the charges, it is very evident MS was the one who did the actual killing, because DM was charged with forcible confinement, we know that TB did not make it to another location, in Canada if you confine someone forcible and they die on yoU, a first degree murder charge will be laid. Because DM was charged with theft, we know that he was driving.

Now, if the charges were kidnapping, TB would of had to make it to another location before death. So because of the charges, we know who did what.

If anyone followed the tori stafford case, Michael Raffferty did not actually tori but because he kidnapped her, it would be first degree murder charge ieven if he actually did not kill her.

Points to consider, TB was not kidnapped, therefore he was killed inside the car.
Tori Staffored was unlawfully confined, kidnapped and first degree murder charges were laid against MR


Laws in Canada are different than in US but still similar.

 

[Ernesto]

Here is a map I've created - I would make it open to anyone for editing, but I fear it would end up being vandalized at some point:

http://goo.gl/maps/TDIKg

Let me know if anything should be added or modified, I think I got most of it right. I can edit map points, add them, whatever. Not sure how it helps but I was trying to visualize some things, thought I'd share.