General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[jjenny]

He wasnt in the bed, he got up to close a door when he heard the noise, he left Reeva in the bed when he got up..she may have got up without his knowledge to use the loo when he was closing the door. So in essence, as far as he was concerned when he heard the noise, Reeva was asleep in bed. Thats possibly why he "shouted" at her to call police- to wake her up?? Im really beginning to believe that reeva didnt shout back at OP because after hearing his screams, she ALSO thought there was an intruder in the home.

In SA and especially JHB/Pretoria, most people live with a very high sense of alertness to their surroundings..most urban homes have electric fencing, high walls and children DO NOT play in the street..its a way of life. Home invasions are an every day occurance and everyone has been effected by it..(via family, friends etc who have been hijacked, robbed or had their homes invaded while they are home)

What noise could he have heard then? Nobody else but two of them were there. How would she have gotten into the bathroom past him if he heard the noise and went to investigate? If she was in bed when he got up, how did she end up in the bathroom? His complex has security guards. So why does he think that noise in a bathroom is an intruder?

 

[ontariolynn]

My question is, if he has been using steroids, and now since he has been in jail almost 1 week, a little less, would he be having with drawl and that is also the reason for him crying like a baby all the time, and also using his acting skills, any thoughts?
Thanks

 

[onthecounter]

If Oscar's story is to be believed we also have to believe that Reeva stayed completely silent throughout his shouting and firing shots.

OP says "I screamed at the intruder", yet we are supposed to believe, that despite his screaming, and talking directly to Reeva, she stayed completely silent, not alerting him to her whereabouts.

How could OP, believe she was in the bed all that time, silent and motionless, until after the fact. How is it possible that he could truly have believed that his screaming wouldn't have caused her to jump right out of that bad, utter something anything. According to his story, he thought she was in that bed. It is impossible that he could have thought that after one shot, two shots, three shots...

 

[Patticake]

Even if he had shot a burgler that way wouldn't it still murder? Does it matter legally that it was his girlfriend?

I'm certain that one of the people during this morning's hearings mentioned that even if it had been a burglar, and not Reeva, it would have been murder.

And, he failed to utilize one of the first rules of owning and using a gun: "Identify your target". Know who you are shooting. That rule went right out the window!

Couldn't have he yelled through the door and asked who was inside?

 

[onthecounter]

He has claimed that he was screaming and shouting at what he thought was an intruder, to cover for the fact he was screaming at Reeva. The neighbours heard him screaming so he had to incorporate that part in to his lies...

 

[onthecounter]

Also if he believed there was an intruder and told them to get out, surely he should have given them chance to get out via the bathroom window before he started shooting! He was quite happy to start shooting at an intruder after he hadn't given them a chance to get back out the way they came in!

So even if he had thought it was an intruder - guilty anyway!

 

[jjenny]

I read his affidavit. Why did he think that noise from the bathroom was an intruder as opposed to his girlfriend, who he knew was in his apartment? He had to go to get his gun from under the bed. He did not see that his girlfriend was not in bed at that time? And he was afraid to turn on the light, but not afraid to scream at the supposed intruder?
There is his affidavit, by the way.
http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_oscar-pistorius-affidavit-at-pretoria-bail-hearing_1801796

 

[Patticake]

What noise could he have heard then? Nobody else but two of them were there. How would she have gotten into the bathroom past him if he heard the noise and went to investigate? If she was in bed when he got up, how did she end up in the bathroom? His complex has security guards. So why does he think that noise in a bathroom is an intruder?

My understanding is that, yes, crime in SA is as bad as we are hearing it is.

I think OP even alluded to a "false sense of security" by living in a secure complex with security guards as there had been many instances of the guards themselves collaborating with thieves and malcontents to give them safe passage into the neighborhood.

It must be a terrible way to live.

.

 

[jjenny]

He wasnt in the bed, he got up to close a door when he heard the noise, he left Reeva in the bed when he got up..she may have got up without his knowledge to use the loo when he was closing the door. So in essence, as far as he was concerned when he heard the noise, Reeva was asleep in bed. Thats possibly why he "shouted" at her to call police- to wake her up?? Im really beginning to believe that reeva didnt shout back at OP because after hearing his screams, she ALSO thought there was an intruder in the home.

In SA and especially JHB/Pretoria, most people live with a very high sense of alertness to their surroundings..most urban homes have electric fencing, high walls and children DO NOT play in the street..its a way of life. Home invasions are an every day occurance and everyone has been effected by it..(via family, friends etc who have been hijacked, robbed or had their homes invaded while they are home)

He claims his gun was under his bed. So he would have to get his gun from under the bed. So in that time he didn't see that his girlfriend was not in bed?

 

[jjenny]

If Oscar's story is to be believed we also have to believe that Reeva stayed completely silent throughout his shouting and firing shots.

OP says "I screamed at the intruder", yet we are supposed to believe, that despite his screaming, and talking directly to Reeva, she stayed completely silent, not alerting him to her whereabouts.

How could OP, believe she was in the bed all that time, silent and motionless, until after the fact. How is it possible that he could truly have believed that his screaming wouldn't have caused her to jump right out of that bad, utter something anything. According to his story, he thought she was in that bed. It is impossible that he could have thought that after one shot, two shots, three shots...

And he had to get his gun from under the bed. So why would he think she was in bed? While getting his gun, he couldn't see she was not in there?

 

[cityslick]

He claims his gun was under his bed. So he would have to get his gun from under the bed. So in that time he didn't see that his girlfriend was not in bed?

This goes back to my question of 'what was his eye level at that point in time'. Keep in mind according to his story at this point he's still no wearing his prosthetics. I can see a scenario where he didn't see her because his vantage points were different than normal people (due to lack of legs). Another question, where did he put his legs on? Near the bed? Did he shoot before he put is legs on or after. If after (which I think the prosecution is saying), there is no defense for him, because it's impossible to think that during the time he's putting the legs on (probably a minute or two), he's not calling out to Reeva or checking where she is.

I also agree that in the very least he's guilty of negligent homicide since whether it's Reeva, an intruder or the easter bunny, you can't just start shooting like it's the wild west and deal with consequences after.

 

[jjenny]

This goes back to my question of 'what was his eye level at that point in time'. Keep in mind according to his story at this point he's still no wearing his prosthetics. I can see a scenario where he didn't see her because his vantage points were different than normal people (due to lack of legs). Another question, where did he put his legs on? Near the bed? Did he shoot before he put is legs on or after. If after (which I think the prosecution is saying), there is no defense for him, because it's impossible to think that during the time he's putting the legs on (probably a minute or two), he's not calling out to Reeva or checking where she is.

I also agree that in the very least he's guilty of negligent homicide since whether it's Reeva, an intruder or the easter bunny, you can't just start shooting like it's the wild west and deal with consequences after.

Even if he was walking on stumps (his affidavit says he has mobility on his stumps), I presume his eye level should have been above the bed. Stand on your knees and you will see what I am talking about.

 

[cityslick]

Even if he was walking on stumps (his affidavit says he has mobility on his stumps), I presume his eye level should have been above the bed. Stand on your knees and you will see what I am talking about.

I don't disagree with you, just throwing out possible scenarios. Trying to think of the situation in terms of someone who has no legs is hard (mentally and physically).

At the end of the day, he's going to have to explain why he felt the need to blind shoot through the door. His own story doesn't say he saw someone else with a gun, in fact he says he didn't actually see a figure, just heard someone and started shooting. Even if you thought it was an intruder, you've got them pinned in the bathroom. Keep the gun trained on the door and call police.

 

[jjenny]

I don't disagree with you, just throwing out possible scenarios. Trying to think of the situation in terms of someone who has no legs is hard (mentally and physically).

At the end of the day, he's going to have to explain why he felt the need to blind shoot through the door. His own story doesn't say he saw someone else with a gun, in fact he says he didn't actually see a figure, just heard someone and started shooting. Even if you thought it was an intruder, you've got them pinned in the bathroom. Keep the gun trained on the door and call police.

Especially since he knew he was not alone in the apartment. Even if he heard noise in the bathroom, why would he think it was an intruder as opposed to his own girlfriend (and he knew she was in the apartment, according to the affidavit). It's not like she came into the apartment while he was sleeping. He knew full well she was sleeping in the same bed as he was.

 

[onthecounter]

I don't disagree with you, just throwing out possible scenarios. Trying to think of the situation in terms of someone who has no legs is hard (mentally and physically).

At the end of the day, he's going to have to explain why he felt the need to blind shoot through the door. His own story doesn't say he saw someone else with a gun, in fact he says he didn't actually see a figure, just heard someone and started shooting. Even if you thought it was an intruder, you've got them pinned in the bathroom. Keep the gun trained on the door and call police.

BBM

Not even someone, just 'a noise'. I'd like him to elaborate on this noise, I mean apparently his actions were based on this one instigator. Was it a toilet flush, tap, footstep. For all he knew something could have fallen off the shelf (according to his defense), and yet he reacts as he did.

 

[jjenny]

BBM

Not even someone, just 'a noise'. I'd like him to elaborate on this noise, I mean apparently his actions were based on this one instigator. Was it a toilet flush, tap, footstep. For all he knew something could have fallen off the shelf (according to his defense), and yet he reacts as he did.

And furthermore, she didn't get into his apartment in the middle of the night. She was sleeping there. He knew she was sleeping there. As such, he should have expected she could be using the restroom.

 

[Norwegian]

Is it confirmed that the police were there few hours prior to the shooting?

 

[Lola]

found this curious Daily Telegraph

11.27 It has emerged that Pistorius had his initial application for a firearm licence rejected.
The 27-year-old requested a licence for a 9mm firearm in 2008, but Beeld reported that this was initially rejected.
He was apparently granted a licence in 2010 and the weapon is the one he allegedly used to kill girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria home last week.
He has six other pending applications for firearm licences, reported the Afrikaans daily.

 

[Carol70]

My understanding is that, yes, crime in SA is as bad as we are hearing it is.

I think OP even alluded to a "false sense of security" by living in a secure complex with security guards as there had been many instances of the guards themselves collaborating with thieves and malcontents to give them safe passage into the neighborhood.

It must be a terrible way to live.

.

Thanks, I was going to mention this..the fact he was in a secure estate means nothing to ones sense of security. My brother lived in an estate complex with electric wiring around the entire complex, boom gates and guards and 2 vehicles were stolen from outside his front door and his townhouse burgled,in less than a year. My family ourselves have had our home invaded while we slept, only to realize in the morning..I happend to be asleep infront of the telly so the intruders more than likely stood next to me and I never knew a thing...we never heard a thing too....it's extremely traumatizing to go through something like that thinking of the what ifs etc...I have family that now live in the states, uk and Australia that left because of being traumatized by crime. It's very real here. My husband sleeps with a machete, axe and baseball bat near his bed.

Anyhow, to be honest, I'm really trying to rationalize all the info and trying to believe that this truly was just a horrible tragic mistake...I hear all the rebuttals of his statement but also trying to remember that this more than likely happened over a period of a few minutes, if that. We have no idea of what his state of mind was in that few minutes.

In short, I'm on the fence, I want so much to believe but also think how can it be? Kwim?

 

[Lola]

Carol, I read on several tweets that many gated communities have something like a panic button, that you can press if you feel in danger. do we know anything about this being available at Pistorius' compound?