General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[cityslick]

And furthermore, she didn't get into his apartment in the middle of the night. She was sleeping there. He knew she was sleeping there. As such, he should have expected she could be using the restroom.

I will admit, the intruder story sounded a whole lot better when it was initially speculated that she snuck into the apartment to surprise him. Having her already there and not even investigating or questioning the noise to wonder if it was his GF going to the bathroom really makes it look bad.

I thought of perhaps it really did go down as he said, but he wasn't of a rational mind to think rational thoughts (steroids), thus not bothering to check the GF and going shooting in a steroids-induced rage.

I guess what I'm saying I don't dismiss the fact that he never 'intentionally' meant to harm Reeva based on what we know. It wouldn't make him any less guilty of murder though.

 

[Carol70]

Carol, I read on several tweets that many gated communities have something like a panic button, that you can press if you feel in danger. do we know anything about this being available at Pistorius' compound?

No, nothing I have heard but in gated communities like that, I would imagine that there would be a link ie: panic button or intercom direct to the security office...it could possibly explain why it's been reported that neighbours in the past have called security instead of police when there have been disturbances...security would arrive faster.

 

[21merc7]

So many conflicting reports, and his own words "seem" conflicting to us at present.

She arrived around 5:30 to 6:00 p.m.; police were there earlier; 4 shots through bathroom; 1 shot in bedroom 3 in bathroom; bat used on head; bat used on door; car running; phone calls; arguments overheard by neighbors.

I hope we will eventually see the evidence, to include the bathroom door, walls, floor, the bedroom, where all items were found.

 

[21merc7]

Was her phone or ipad in there? That's a great theory.

I read earlier this a.m. that the ipad was found in the residence. Did not say where in the residence though.

 

[Patticake]

Thanks, I was going to mention this..the fact he was in a secure estate means nothing to ones sense of security. My brother lived in an estate complex with electric wiring around the entire complex, boom gates and guards and 2 vehicles were stolen from outside his front door and his townhouse burgled,in less than a year. My family ourselves have had our home invaded while we slept, only to realize in the morning..I happend to be asleep infront of the telly so the intruders more than likely stood next to me and I never knew a thing...we never heard a thing too....it's extremely traumatizing to go through something like that thinking of the what ifs etc...I have family that now live in the states, uk and Australia that left because of being traumatized by crime. It's very real here. My husband sleeps with a machete, axe and baseball bat near his bed.

I definitely know what you mean.

My home was broken into in early December 2012 in Los Angeles. I wasn't home but I do sleep close to my gun for protection.

.

 

[Patticake]

I read earlier this a.m. that the ipad was found in the residence. Did not say where in the residence though.

The iPad was found on the floor by the bed. No mention that I know of about her phone.

.

 

[Carol70]

Ps: also just to add, when visiting gated communities, you arrive at the gates and security will call the person you are visiting and confirm they are expecting you...this is how it was for my brother and I have no doubt the same for OP place.

 

[Waddles]

From the side of the prosecutor, yes... he says he shot and then put on his legs.

I imagine that after shooting the bathroom and realising that Reeva may have been in there when she is not in the bed, he rushes to put his legs on (calling his family/friend/Netcare?) and then thats when he claimed he bashed the door in with the cricket bat...small bathroom, I imagine he tosses down the bat when he see's her..and there is our bat full of blood.

I guess there will be ballistic experts that will be able to determine what height Oscar was at when he shot at the door...(legs/no legs)

The thing that doesn't work is that the cricket bat was found bloodied but in the bedroom -does he return to the bedroom to drop off the bat?
That's what I don't get, where the bat was found

 

[Patticake]

So many conflicting reports, and his own words "seem" conflicting to us at present.

She arrived around 5:30 to 6:00 p.m.; police were there earlier; 4 shots through bathroom; 1 shot in bedroom 3 in bathroom; bat used on head; bat used on door; car running; phone calls; arguments overheard by neighbors.

I hope we will eventually see the evidence, to include the bathroom door, walls, floor, the bedroom, where all items were found.

Was a shot in the bedroom mentioned this morning? I thought they only alluded to the bat being used on the door?

.

 

[Waddles]

Also if he believed there was an intruder and told them to get out, surely he should have given them chance to get out via the bathroom window before he started shooting! He was quite happy to start shooting at an intruder after he hadn't given them a chance to get back out the way they came in!

So even if he had thought it was an intruder - guilty anyway!

true, but what his father speculated was that he was shooting at the lock-not that shooting the lock wouldn't make you think the person behind it would get shot, ugh

 

[Wagara]

I think he's probably guilty as all heck but if I entertain the thought of 'roid rage' I have to entertain it from both sides... he could just as easily have had 'roid rage' at the belief a intruder was inside. As stated above its probably still murder regardless of who the victim is.

 

[Lola]

this tweet from today - City Press Online @City_Press

RT @karynmaughan: Nel: Were 2 people in house. The deceased planned to stay over that night. Deceased shot 3 times in toilet #OscarPistorius

there were only 3 shots fired or they found evidence of one or more in the bedroom. perhaps we'll hear more tomorrow.

 

[Melanie]

My understanding is that, yes, crime in SA is as bad as we are hearing it is.

I think OP even alluded to a "false sense of security" by living in a secure complex with security guards as there had been many instances of the guards themselves collaborating with thieves and malcontents to give them safe passage into the neighborhood.

It must be a terrible way to live.

.

Which blows out the "I had to get up and shut the sliding glass door and heard a noise" theory. If he was so afraid of intruders, why did he allow both of them to get into bed without making sure the house was secure.

I live in a safe neighborhood, and we always lock up tight before bed.

MOO

Mel

 

[Carol70]

The thing that doesn't work is that the cricket bat was found bloodied but in the bedroom -does he return to the bedroom to drop off the bat?
That's what I don't get, where the bat was found

Yep I know...this is why one needs to see the layout of the house. I find it very strange that the toilet was so small...in a house(mansion) the main bedroom, being Oscars, would no doubt have a full bathroom on suite...how was she shot in a small 1.4 toilet?? Unless she was in a guest loo AWAY from the main bedroom. In majority of homes, there is main bedroom with its own bathroom...and then a family bathroom which is a bath,shower, basin and a separate loo next to it. The size of the loo really throws me???

 

[Lola]

two other tweets that were interesting from today. wondering what Nel is implying and whether or not Oscar's view of the relationship was not as Reeva's --

RT @karynmaughan: Nel: #ReevaStaankamp locked that toilet door for a purpose. We will get to that purpose #OscarPistorius



RT @barrybateman: #OscarPistorius is squinting at Nel, appears repulsed by what he is hearing

 

[21merc7]

Linked this a.m.

Wow. She was in her nightgown. He shot her in the bedroom first, then she fled to the bathroom, he got up, put his legs on, shot her 3 more times. Just wow. I have no idea what they were fighting about, but this is rage.

I don't agree with the prosecutor that it was premeditated, unless they have more than is being released and can prove he was planning to kill his short term girlfriend. If they do, I will change my mind on that one.

Bedroom shot links:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...irlfriend-multiple-times-in-bedroom-bathroom/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57569823/new-details-emerge-in-pistorius-murder-case/

Was a shot in the bedroom mentioned this morning? I thought they only alluded to the bat being used on the door?

.

 

[Carol70]

Which blows out the "I had to get up and shut the sliding glass door and heard a noise" theory. If he was so afraid of intruders, why did he allow both of them to get into bed without making sure the house was secure.

I live in a safe neighborhood, and we always lock up tight before bed.

MOO

Mel

Haha, ok, I'm going to rationalize again.

Ok, what if: they are a new couple, new couples shag like bunnies in the beginning, it WAS valentines day..maybe they were not actually sleeping yet..he gets up to close the door ( i also think i read that he gets a fan so the night is hot..we are in summer)she gets up to go "wash"?? That may not be something he would say aloud in his affidavid in respect to Reeva...Again, I'm surmising every possibility

I've also wondered if they will mention any sexual activity..if they were so in love and valentines, she sleeping over, I'm sure she wasn't there to do yoga, read a book and go sleep kwim? If there were problems in the relationship, that info could be quite telling.

 

[21merc7]

Haha, ok, I'm going to rationalize again.

Ok, what if: they are a new couple, new couples shag like bunnies in the beginning, it WAS valentines day..maybe they were not actually sleeping yet..he gets up to close the door ( i also think i read that he gets a fan so the night is hot..we are in summer)she gets up to go "wash"?? That may not be something he would say aloud in his affidavid in respect to Reeva...Again, I'm surmising every possibility

I've also wondered if they will mention any sexual activity..if they were so in love and valentines, she sleeping over, I'm sure she wasn't there to do yoga, read a book and go sleep kwim? If there were problems in the relationship, that info could be quite telling.

I thought about that. Which made me think, okay she locked the door b/c they were new lovers and she was still bashful about bathroom activities. However, doing yoga in front of someone would fall into new lover bashfulness, and really, who believes they had only dated 2 months and suddenly he is watching t.v. while she does yoga - in the bedroom on Valentine celebration????

 

[Waddles]

Haha, ok, I'm going to rationalize again.

Ok, what if: they are a new couple, new couples shag like bunnies in the beginning, it WAS valentines day..maybe they were not actually sleeping yet..he gets up to close the door ( i also think i read that he gets a fan so the night is hot..we are in summer)she gets up to go "wash"?? That may not be something he would say aloud in his affidavid in respect to Reeva...Again, I'm surmising every possibility

I've also wondered if they will mention any sexual activity..if they were so in love and valentines, she sleeping over, I'm sure she wasn't there to do yoga, read a book and go sleep kwim? If there were problems in the relationship, that info could be quite telling.

It was the night before Valentines, overnight 13th to 14th and neighbours said they heard loud arguing earlier in the night, or did they? There was even some talk earlier of the police having already been called that night, but maybe just a rumour. They had been together 3 or 4 months but were already quite serious with each other so I think she probably was comfortable enough to do things like yoga, maybe she stayed over a lot, I dunno just speculating here

 

[Waddles]

do you celebrate Valentines night of the 13th? I thought it was night of the 14th?