General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[NocturnalLady]

Even if he was walking on stumps (his affidavit says he has mobility on his stumps), I presume his eye level should have been above the bed. Stand on your knees and you will see what I am talking about.

Yes, he actually does have some bone below the knee but I would assume that he would get around without his prosthetic legs by walking the same way you or I would if we were kneeling. I can't see him walking on the tips of those bones. That would seem to be very painful!

 

[NocturnalLady]

found this curious Daily Telegraph

11.27 It has emerged that Pistorius had his initial application for a firearm licence rejected.
The 27-year-old requested a licence for a 9mm firearm in 2008, but Beeld reported that this was initially rejected.
He was apparently granted a licence in 2010 and the weapon is the one he allegedly used to kill girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria home last week.
He has six other pending applications for firearm licences, reported the Afrikaans daily.

Can't wait to hear why that was rejected. That seems very strange.

 

[Wondergirl]

Not sure where Oscar's bedroom is in this pic, if it is off the circular hall or not.

OscarPistorius Oscar Pistorius Dec 21

4 more sleeps till Christmas.. ☺☃ pic.twitter.com/vdwJQbPM

 

[jjenny]

It wasn't posted as a parallel, it was posted to illustrate the point that you don't necessarily have to 'fear for your life' to shoot an intruder. I don't know if SA has the same laws.

While that's true in TX because of stand your ground laws, that would not be true in all states. And in Pistorius case, the girl had a right to be in a apartment. She was not an intruder. So he wasn't exactly standing his ground -assuming SA has similar laws.

 

[Wondergirl]

I know that the blood spatter on the walls has been mentioned.

I also noticed that the walls in OP's house seem to be stone, marble etc.

I am wondering if they would be more porous than a regular drywall scenario, and how that might affect the evidence?

OscarPistorius Oscar Pistorius Dec 23

Last nights braai (bbq) with @TheFrisco_kid. @BeatrixLeopold @reevasteenkamp @ElanLea and Sylah. pic.twitter.com/pe0PP25H

https://twitter.com/OscarPistorius/status/282878224827043840/photo/1

 

[Xavier]

Comment from http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-faces-another-gruelling-day-in-court-20130219



I had not thought of OP locking the door on Reeva from the outside.

But I had thought of his making her his captive. So he first gets her into the bedroom and locks it and then when she goes to the toilet, he locked that door too. Why? to stop her leaving him and/or to stop her exposing him for taking banned steroids IMO.

Another thought has crossed my mind now. That is that he crushed her skull earlier with the cricket bat until she died. Hence the screaming heard earlier by neighbours that he fended off possibly saying that they had had an argument and all was safe.

Then he could have sat down and planned how to set it up to best to get him off the hook. So the intruder plan begins as per his affidavit. He puts her on the toilet, goes out and locks the door. He then fires the 3 or 4 shots through the toilet door. Then gets the cricket bat to bash down the door. Then phones people and carries her down the stairs pretending she was alive and tying to save her like the hero.

"

Good theory Estelle -- Consider your theory jives ONLY if Reeva's time of death is in synch with OP's story

It the ME has her time of death maybe 2 hours before paramedicas tried to revive her, then yes your theory has a valid point

 

[Estelle]

Great post Estelle -- Is it possible after knocking open the bathroom door w/ cricket bat, OP laid the bat down in the pool of blood and never hit Reeva with the bat?

It's very possible Reeva fell and smacked her head hard on the toilet, counter after being shot, crushing a side of her skull

Any thoughts?

Both are possible but I now think it was staged after he killed her with cricket bat.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, he actually does have some bone below the knee but I would assume that he would get around without his prosthetic legs by walking the same way you or I would if we were kneeling. I can't see him walking on the tips of those bones. That would seem to be very painful!

He is the one who says he has some mobility on his stumps. How else exactly would he walk on them?

 

[brownbread]

I have a question about process: did OP need to give a detailed account of his actions at this point, a bail hearing? It seemed to me that he was providing more information than he was required to do.

If there was any question as to whether the forensic evidence would support his claimed course of events, would his defence team not have advised that he should be less forthcoming with details at this stage?

 

[jjenny]

I have a question about process: did OP need to give a detailed account of his actions at this point, a bail hearing? It seemed to me that he was providing more information than he was required to do.

If there was any question as to whether the forensic evidence would support his claimed course of events, would his defence team not have advised that he should be less forthcoming with details at this stage?

He is in South Africa, so the same laws we have in US do not apply.

 

[NocturnalLady]

He is the one who says he has some mobility on his stumps. How else exactly would he walk on them?

If you've seen the ends of his legs the bone is very thin and it's sort of pointy. I think OP saying he has mobility on his stumps doesn't necessarily mean he walks on the tips of them. It would seem to me to be easier to walk more on his knees with the remaining bone as support. But this is all just an opinion and I'm sure we won't really know about exactly how that works until there is a trial. The only difference it would really make is in how tall he would be without his prosthetic legs. If he walks in a kneeling position he would be at least a foot shorter than if he walks on the tips or ends of his legs. The height difference would presumably impact his ability to see if Reeva was still in the bed or not.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I have a question about process: did OP need to give a detailed account of his actions at this point, a bail hearing? It seemed to me that he was providing more information than he was required to do.

If there was any question as to whether the forensic evidence would support his claimed course of events, would his defence team not have advised that he should be less forthcoming with details at this stage?

I think it was more for the purpose of laying out his position about what happened to try to make bail. He had to give a story so that the court could consider whether he even met the criteria for being held without bail under the charges that were against him. Under his account presumably he would not & therefore he should get bail. I guess tomorrow the prosecution will tell what they think happened.

It's interesting to see the way this works in other countries because I know that no lawyer in the USA would want his client to make a statement like that as part of the court record at this point in the process!

 

[jjenny]

If you've seen the ends of his legs the bone is very thin and it's sort of pointy. I think OP saying he has mobility on his stumps doesn't necessarily mean he walks on the tips of them. It would seem to me to be easier to walk more on his knees with the remaining bone as support. But this is all just an opinion and I'm sure we won't really know about exactly how that works until there is a trial. The only difference it would really make is in how tall he would be without his prosthetic legs. If he walks in a kneeling position he would be at least a foot shorter than if he walks on the tips or ends of his legs. The height difference would presumably impact his ability to see if Reeva was still in the bed or not.

I also believe he walks on his knees-I never suggested he walked on the tips. Which would mean his eyes are still above the bed. If you stand on your knees next to your bed-your eyes will be above the bed and you will see the whole bed. So when he went to retrieve his gun from under the bed-how could he not see she was not in it?

 

[squeaky]

The applications to obtain a firearm license are available on the government website:

http://www.services.gov.za/services...alingwiththelaw/firearms/firearmlicence/en_ZA

There isn't anything terribly surprising, and it appears that (just like other countries) there are a number of different ways (both legitimate and clerical) that an application might be rejected.

 

[brownbread]

He is in South Africa, so the same laws we have in US do not apply.

I'm not in the US or SA so I don't know what rules apply in either case. The wording of the statement suggested he wanted to go on record with a detailed account, rather than it being required of him - I just wondered if that was the case.

In either event, if, as some are suggesting, there is evidence that the gun was fired in the bedroom or that Reeva was struck with the cricket bat, it would seem to be extremely self-defeating to provide a statement which does not account for either of these things.

 

[Summerfun]

that rugby player is hot!



:hot:

I do not really care who is hot????? Someone who was a very beautiful woman just lost her life. It is not about who is hot or not.

 

[Estelle]

From larry.hannigan.31 - February 20, 2013 at 11:07
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-faces-another-gruelling-day-in-court-20130219

"After reading the official affidavit (@barrybateman has a link), THREE things stand out.

1. Oscar claims it was pitch dark (he closed the blinds) when he walked to fetch the gun at his bed after hearing someone in the bathroom and thought Reeva was still lying in bed.

Wouldn't he have seen Reeva in the light when he first woke up?

2. He also claims that he could see the bathroom door was locked and the bathroom window was open. Surely if you can see 7m into the bathroom, you could see 1m to see your girlfriend lying in bed.

3. He felt vulnerable on his stumps, why would you then walk into the bathroom on the tile floor where grip is diminished if you feel vulnerable? Why would you approach the toilet with this sense of vulnerability? The bathroom and toilet are 2 different rooms, toilet 1mx1,4m, shooting into such a confined space practically guarantees impact and you have to be in the bathroom to fire into toilet.

City Press stands by the info given to them by 2 SAPS sources, namely Reeva's ipad on the floor (which Hougaard apparently messaged her on, and ipad is expensive to just leave on the floor, which might suggest struggle) and one bullet casing in the bedroom and 3 in the bathroom.

The State is confident in their case, blood splatter patterns from bedroom to bathroom would indicate and support bullet casing in bedroom, and Reeva was shot in bedroom first.

I fully supported Oscar and truly hoped it was an accident, but looking at the evidence (save the Hougaard speculation) I am convinced this was pre-meditated murder. I think the State can easily raise a case beyond reasonable doubt."

 

[squeaky]

when will the twitter accounts get going again? yesterday only a few reporters were let in and they certainly didn't know in advance they would make it inside.

 

[jjenny]

I am also curious as to why he claims he was afraid to turn on the light, but not afraid to scream at the intruder.
If you are afraid to turn on the lights, I'd think you would also want to be quiet.

 

[Inobu]

It appears that the motive investigation is focusing on friendships within a particular circle of people. The motive for an argument could stem from issues outside a particular circle.

Google "reeva steenkamp pics" then look at the center image.

This is a high profile male born in South Africa.

Potential for argument - greater than 90%
Unknown during first months of relationship - greater than 75%
Subject being indifferent to image - less than 10%

The image could be the catalyses for an argument in that region which
starts the event off.

Key elements or factors in the actual shooting

The bullet holes in the door
4 Shots 4 hits
Shots Hitting Head, Chest, Hand Hip.

Shooting in the dark room at a closed door hitting an unknown target
in a linear motion (head, chest, hand, hip) from a keeling height seems to be far fetched.

Why only 4 bullets? Shooting blindly out of fear one would empty the clip to ensure a hit unless you know you are hitting the target.

Based on the basic summary one can rule out an intruder scenario.

Note:

This direction in motive is based on the comment from the neighbors

Neighbors alerted authorities to the early morning shooting, saying they had "heard things earlier," police spokeswoman Denise Beukes has said.

It appears that the neighbor is not revealing what they directly heard and chooses to say they heard "things"


Inobu

What is sicking is a Beautiful woman with the wrong man........again!