General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Carol70]

I totally agree about defence attys, if Oscar did not have the money to afford the best attys then we would only get to hear the states assertions with no push back, once the state made its evidence known today Oscar could have been convicted quite easily and locked in jail if it was a trial and not a bail hearing

but his very good defence attys knocked huge wholes in states assertions and opinions on what the evidence proves, and state will need to seriously up its game and do there job professionally if they ever hope to get any type of conviction, as these attys are already ahead of them and state is playing catch up

Absolutely, Oscar has hired the best of the best from his own forensics to an Roux is actually an Advocate...that's the big time. My husband estimated today that his court costs alone must have cost in region of 200k ZAR per day so far. That's a lot of SA rands.

 

[joe jones]

If this defence team gets him an aquittal or the case doesn't even get to court then I am sure Oscar will think every rand he has spent is worth it, if only all defendants had access to the best lawyers the system would be much fairer

 

[Lola]

what i want to know is who called the lawyer and why was he at the scene so quickly with the borther?

the police may have problems with their case, but the fact is pistorius did kill a person. it was not an accident. he is no longer claiming that. it was intentional. it may not have all the tabloid interest as it may not be as the state would portray...high profile boyfriend murders beautiful accomplished girlfriend, but he did commit murder. does it really make any difference who the victim was?

 

[NocturnalLady]

Botha the window leading from the toilet looks onto the backyard where there were two dogs. BB

#OscarPistorius Botha to get to the bathroom from the balcony you have to go passed the bed. BB

So for an intruder to have come into the bathroom they would have had to pass by the two dogs. OP presumably knew the dogs were there so why didn't he wonder how it could be an intruder if neither dog was barking?

 

[NocturnalLady]

Botha: it appears the trajectory was down - from top down. (Angle from door to toilet seat) BB

probably how they are putting forth the thing about him having his legs on???

Yeah I think that the trajectory of the bullets is going to be a key piece of evidence in proving premeditation or not. If he had his legs on then it contradicts his statement.

 

[danzn16]

Didnt the dude say he got up and closed the patio doors and brought the fan in? So prior to that the doors would have been opened?

But OP said they had been sleeping and neighbor said they had been fighting for an hour. So someone's not telling the truth...

 

[NocturnalLady]

Nel on the issue of the firearm under bed because of fear of crime. But he went to bed with door open? BB

Botha: I found a holster for the firearm on the same side I found the overnight bag and slippers. BB

So the gun was maybe kept of the side of the bed where Reeva was sleeping?

 

[joe jones]

what i want to know is who called the lawyer and why was he at the scene so quickly with the borther?

the police may have problems with their case, but the fact is pistorius did kill a person. it was not an accident. he is no longer claiming that. it was intentional. it may not have all the tabloid interest as it may not be as the state would portray...high profile boyfriend murders beautiful accomplished girlfriend, but he did commit murder. does it really make any difference who the victim was?

it is not murder if he genuinely believed he was killing an intruder who broke into his home, that will be what the whole case will be about,

state will try to prove Oscar deliberately murdered Reeva, defence will be he shot and killed Reeva whilst mistaken as he thought there was an intruder in his bathroom and he was in fear for his life,

first one he is guilty second one not guilty as state has only chose to charge him with premeditated murder

 

[Carol70]

If this defence team gets him an aquittal or the case doesn't even get to court then I am sure Oscar will think every rand he has spent is worth it, if only all defendants had access to the best lawyers the system would be much fairer

I'm sure he will but he is not going to get an acquittal, he has killed someone and has admitted to it. He is still in a lot of trouble. The only way he will get off scot free is if the state blows their case and it get struck off the roll. (It happens here quite a lot, maybe not with such a high profile case but it's not unusual)..anything could happen, dockets go missing and complete police bungling...and after today's events, the police are not exactly inspiring confidence!

 

[joe jones]

and my second thought after realising what I had done would be to call a lawyer, I say it constantly you should never especially when you are innocent engage with the police without legal representation no matter what the circumstances,

 

[Carol70]

it is not murder if he genuinely believed he was killing an intruder who broke into his home, that will be what the whole case will be about,

state will try to prove Oscar deliberately murdered Reeva, defence will be he shot and killed Reeva whilst mistaken as he thought there was an intruder in his bathroom and he was in fear for his life,

first one he is guilty second one not guilty as state has only chose to charge him with premeditated murder

SA law states you may not kill an intruder unless your life is DIRECTLY in danger...oscars was not as the intruder was behind a closed door.

 

[gxm]

If the sliding glass door (or window) was open and it was the middle of the night then, IMO, someone could have heard shouting from a distance. However, I doubt that they would have been able to hear what was actually said, or even be able to distinguish angry shouting from enthusiastic shouting. But, IMO, shouting could probably be heard at that distance. And if there had been prior instances of domestic problems then the neighbor(s) would probably just assume that it was the angry shouting of an argument.

That said, I have a really bad feeling that OP is going to get away with murder.

 

[joe jones]

I'm sure he will but he is not going to get an acquittal, he has killed someone and has admitted to it. He is still in a lot of trouble. The only way he will get off scot free is if the state blows their case and it get struck off the roll. (It happens here quite a lot, maybe not with such a high profile case but it's not unusual)..anything could happen, dockets go missing and complete police bungling...and after today's events, the police are not exactly inspiring confidence!

they have chosen to only charge him with premeditated murder, if the case gets to trial the jurists trying him will only get to decide did he kill her deliberately with premeditation or did he genuinely fear for his life and think he was shooting at an intruder, if they think the second scenario then he is not guilty

intruders are killed by home owners in SA on a daily basis, and not just in SA and it is considered a legitimate homicide as the intruder should not have broken into the homeowners home,

the only way the state can change the scenario is to add further charges such as the manslaughter range of charges

 

[gxm]

SA law states you may not kill an intruder unless your life is DIRECTLY in danger...oscars was not as the intruder was behind a closed door.

Which, IMO, is quite likely why his lawyers' cleverly crafted statement of events has OP without his legs when the shots were fired. So that he can claim he was vulnerable to attack whether the intruder was in the bathroom or not.

 

[gxm]

It is my understanding that the SA justice system does not use jurists. The cases are decided by a judge. That's what I was reading on the board the other day. Does anyone know if this information is correct or not?

 

[joe jones]

SA law states you may not kill an intruder unless your life is DIRECTLY in danger...oscars was not as the intruder was behind a closed door.

or you perceive your life to be in danger, and we do not know if Oscar has admitted shooting to kill or has he said he shot to scare the intruder, and maybe that is how he will explain the shots being higher up than they would be as he aimed higher up the door so as to scare not kill the intruder

 

[cityslick]

what i want to know is who called the lawyer and why was he at the scene so quickly with the borther?

the police may have problems with their case, but the fact is pistorius did kill a person. it was not an accident. he is no longer claiming that. it was intentional. it may not have all the tabloid interest as it may not be as the state would portray...high profile boyfriend murders beautiful accomplished girlfriend, but he did commit murder. does it really make any difference who the victim was?

No it doesn't, although I have a hard time believing as many folks would be as angry if it was just your common burglar.

He took a life, we'll see how much he pays for it. But then again, I've seen drunk drivers get as little as a few years in this country for killing someone so who knows.

 

[SweetT]

I have a question. It says he retrieved the fan from the balcony and then shut the balcony door..he noticed the window near or in the bathroom open. Does he live on a ground level home or is it up? I ask since he has a balcony. If it is higher up would someone really climb in through an upper window when they could have come through the balcony which was open?

 

[Carol70]

So for an intruder to have come into the bathroom they would have had to pass by the two dogs. OP presumably knew the dogs were there so why didn't he wonder how it could be an intruder if neither dog was barking?

Yep, this is admittedly very questionable...he has what looks like a bull terrier and a boerboel..both vicious territorial dogs...I couldn't imagine an intruder getting past them easily. But..(lol, I know ) I would imagine at that stage in his mind he was not evening thinking about the dogs...also, it's very common for dogs to be poisoned by intruders. We own a boerboel, he has been trained NOT to accept food from anyone but ourselves and we have a "eat" word. He will only eat when he is given this specific instruction no matter how hungry he is. I Oscar did happen to think of the dogs, in his paranoia, he more than likely thout the worst!

 

[joe jones]

It is my understanding that the SA justice system does not use jurists. The cases are decided by a judge. That's what I was reading on the board the other day. Does anyone know if this information is correct or not?

SA does not have a jury system