General Discussion Thread #4

[Estelle]

Did you hear on the Channel 5 video that Reeva's mother June said that OP did not choose to spend Christmas and New Year with Reeva, but instead went off with his friends somewhere.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Did you hear on the Channel 5 video that Reeva's mother June said that OP did not choose to spend Christmas and New Year with Reeva, but instead went off with his friends somewhere.

I remember there was a photo made Dec. 25th 2012 (?). It showed Reeva and some friends at a Christmas party at OP's house.

I'll look for it, but am not sure if it's still there

 

[Carol70]

Did you hear on the Channel 5 video that Reeva's mother June said that OP did not choose to spend Christmas and New Year with Reeva, but instead went off with his friends somewhere.

I haven't watched yet, going to when I get home. However, Im so disappointed they did this. I know they need money etc but yar, I don't know..

Don't crucify me but to say Reeva was afraid to be with OP is ludacris. She willingly went to spend time alone with him at his home numerous times, on holiday with him etc. She was an advocate for abused women..why would she stay with him if she had any inkling that there was a reason to be afraid? They have sensationalized the story and I hope they haven't jeopardized the case in anyway considering that the judge was quite sympathetic to OP this morning regarding his trial-by-media.

Pisto, would love to see that pic, do you recall where you saw it?

 

[Pisto_lius]

I found the pic but was a little bit wrong with the date :blushing:

https://twitter.com/OscarPistorius/status/282878224827043840/photo/1

 

[Carol70]

lol, close enough!

Anyhow, xmas is generally spent with family, there is nothing absurd with the fact that they may have not been together during xmas, they had been dating for 4 weeks odd by that stage!

Anyhow, sorry, just went back in her twitter and it looks like she indeed was with OP at least on the 24/25 Dec. Gina calls, Oz answered, wished her happy xmas and Gina asked to speak to Reeva!

Reeva Steenkamp ‏@reevasteenkamp 25 Dec
@gi_myers Ya! You called and Oz answered and wished u for Xmas and you said I need Reeva NOW hahaha

Reeva Steenkamp Reeva Steenkamp ‏@reevasteenkamp 25 Dec
@gi_myers Do u remember our 1am chat on the phone?

So to me, seems like she spent the night of the 24th with OP.

 

[Pisto_lius]

I haven't watched yet, going to when I get home. However, Im so disappointed they did this. I know they need money etc but yar, I don't know..

Don't crucify me but to say Reeva was afraid to be with OP is ludacris. She willingly went to spend time alone with him at his home numerous times, on holiday with him etc. She was an advocate for abused women..why would she stay with him if she had any inkling that there was a reason to be afraid? They have sensationalized the story and I hope they haven't jeopardized the case in anyway considering that the judge was quite sympathetic to OP this morning regarding his trial-by-media.

Pisto, would love to see that pic, do you recall where you saw it?

I understand what you mean about Reeva's parents but think about:

There are so many reports and pictures about OP and his story. It seems most of the media (and people) forget there is a victim = Reeva. And I guess they did this documentation to show the people there is another side of the story than OP's story. And there are not only OP and his family who are desperate and shocked - there is a family, lost her only daughter killed by several shots through a closed door done by her boyfriend.

They are not only searching for answers - it's their kind of grieve work and folks should understand this and feel with them.

A few days back I tried to explain why I could imagine Reeva would stay with OP:

I believe they weren't a love couple, but only had a PR relationship. Reeva's days as a model were numbered, but she loved publicity and the red carpet and OP could offer this for her. He, on the other hand, adorns himself with charming blonde women and Reeva was significantly more mature than his further girlfriends.

And I also believe Reeva knew about the dark side of OP. Maybe not from the beginning but more and more. Her problem was that she was very involved in violence against women so I assume, she was frightened to become implausible if issues with OP would be publicized. For that reason - IMO - she didn't like to talk about details of her relationship with OP.

As I remember one of her best girlfriends asked her few days before she died, whether everything is OK with her and OP but Reeva wouldn't answer this question and said she would talk later with her about this.

All of this only IMO

And now that Reeva is dead, many things for her family and friends get a different meaning and that's what they want to tell the public.

We mustn't forget: many things you haven't seen before look differently in hindsight.

 

[Patticake]

I didn't see this posted. I could be wrong.

The photographs at the link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...scar-Pistorius-court-case-delayed-August.html

Semi-naked photos commissioned by Reeva Steenkamp for a 'special someone' emerge as Oscar Pistorius court case is delayed until August

A set of semi-naked photos that Reeva Steenkamp commissioned for an unidentified 'special someone' in the months leading up to her death have emerged.

The release of the images comes on the same day that Oscar Pistorius was told in court his trial over her alleged murder has been postponed until August 19 after prosecutors asked for more time to build the case against him.

.

 

[Pisto_lius]

I didn't see this posted. I could be wrong.

The photographs at the link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...scar-Pistorius-court-case-delayed-August.html.

From this report

A set of semi-naked photos that Reeva Steenkamp commissioned for an unidentified 'special someone' in the months leading up to her death have emerged.

Reeva and OP began dating at Dec. 4th 2012. Six weeks later Reeva was dead. But "in the months leading up to her death she commissioned these photos for OP" - could Reeva look into the future? LOL

It seems these photos were made at or around October 3rd 2012 - based on Reeva's own facebook account where she posted the same tatoo photo now shown in the report

Reeva Steenkamp
October 3rd 2012
Garreth Barclay capturing my love for tattoos
https://www.facebook.com/ReevaSteenkamp

Miss Steenkamp was holding her mobile phone when she was shot inside the toilet.

Very interesting, really . As I remember, investigators found her mobile phone outside the toilet - on the bath mat in front of the shower.

 

[whiterum]

I fear the same. I think the defense will rely on "procedural errors" (or whatever they call it).

- They discredited Botha from the beginning. They say he is the one who contaminated the crime scene, he made false statements on the witness stand, he is the one who leaked the crime scene photos....

- Both judges confirmed in the bail hearings, prosecutors and Botha didn't a good job.

Bail restrictions that were eased (Pistorius did not represent a flight risk and was not likely to interfere with state witnesses :floorlaugh. Judge Bert Bam said the restrictions were unfair and unwarranted.

- Weeks ago we heard police had taken photos of the scene with their mobile phones and 49 phones were confiscated - and calculated a few days before today's court date these photos were published.

- And today:
Magistrate Daniel Thulare expressed concern at the media coverage of the case and warned that some of it could be in contempt of court.

This may scandalise the court processes and the administration of justice, Thulare says. The defence says it shares the magistrate's concern.

For me: It will be the judge NOT the media who decides whether OP is guilty or not.

But what if the DEFENSE organized a leak of materials in order to poison the case? And maybe they hope that by postponement the trial they are able to find even more "procedural errors". So the defence is playing with time and this could be the reason they agreed the postponement without any contradiction.

And in the end OP will go free.....

As always, just my guess and my opinion

Well summed up Pisto_lius this is my opinion also.

 

[shane13]

Co-incidentally- Reeva's birthday!

Commentators are up in arms at the insensitivity of it however, I don't think it was intentional!

I wonder who found that first.
If she gets justice, should be ok.

 

[whiterum]

BBM: From even the first minutes after Reeva's death, it has appeared to me that OP's team had been told that the only way they can win this case is by discrediting the police and prosecution in every way they can.

So IMO they have looked at every avenue to do that using the media. I suspect that OP and his team had already contaminated the crime scene themselves by not wearing booties. So they could have approached Botha and bribed him to agree that he did it. I suspect that OP's watch is not missing and it is a fabricated story. I suspect that they bribed someone to take these photos and "leak" them to the press.

I am so suspicious of the behaviour of the defence in this regard that when one of you first described the man in the reflection, saying he had white hair and glasses, I even suspected that he could have been Henke Pistorius!

I would not put it past any of OP's family and friends to do whatever it would take to keep OP out of prison. :jail:

I suspect too that a certain detective has had both his feet ( without covers)
in the defence camp from day one. No-one has gave them more of a leg up than him with all his supposed blunders. This guy giving interviews etc pretending to be an advocate for the prosecution but exactly the opposite when you read between the lines IMO.

 

[natsound]

From this report



Reeva and OP began dating at Dec. 4th 2012. Six weeks later Reeva was dead. But "in the months leading up to her death she commissioned these photos for OP" - could Reeva look into the future? LOL

It seems these photos were made at or around October 3rd 2012 - based on Reeva's own facebook account where she posted the same tatoo photo now shown in the report






Very interesting, really . As I remember, investigators found her mobile phone outside the toilet - on the bath mat in front of the shower.

That's a big piece of news, if indeed RS had her phone in the toilet with her when she was shot. It makes much more sense than two phones in front of the shower, on the bath mat. It changes my theory on what happened. Originally, I thought perhaps the two fought outside the door and OP knocked her phone out of her hands, and dropped his, before she ran into the toilet.

But new questions arise. Why was RS in the toilet with her phone? If she brought it in there to call for help, why didn't she do just that? Unless they were fighting, and he shot her immediately after she locked herself in the toilet.

I can't believe that publication published the bloody toilet picture. But there's less blood than I thought there would be.

 

[natsound]

I fear the same. I think the defense will rely on "procedural errors" (or whatever they call it).

snipped

I'm beginning to think the defense will be able to get away with OP's claim that he thought RS was an intruder in the bathroom.

RS's parents have bolstered the image of a reckless OP with their admission that RS called them and said he was driving like a maniac.

ST's mom was quoted on Facebook months ago saying that she worried something could have gone wrong with her daughter and OP and his guns.

And we know that OP posted on Twitter that he jumped to full combat mode upon hearing the dryer.

This all fits the claim that he would shoot first, ask questions later if he heard sounds in the toilet.

I'm not happy about it, but he might get away with it (UNLESS the prosecution has a pile of evidence that we don't yet know about, like perhaps a phone call from RS to someone while she was in the toilet, asking for help ASAP).

 

[natsound]

http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing

Many more pictures in this video, including RS's gift for OP. Also, police are under suspicion for stealing one of OP's watches.

 

[Pisto_lius]

I remembered an interview given by Garreth Barclay (photographer)

(tried to translate from Afrikaans - please, have compassion for me )

She wanted her picture on bed for boyfriend

PRETORIA. On their last photo shoot she asked him to take a picture of her lying on a bed.

This photo Reeva Steenkamp would give for her boyfriend, Garreth Barclay, a photographer Pretoria told on Tuesday.

"Reeva never told me who is her boyfriend. I never asked, "Barclay, 23, said.

"When we had our last photo shoot on September 19, I knew Reeva dated Francois (Hougaard).

"I heard later that they went out and there were rumors that she and Oscar are together.

"I don't know if she ever gave the picture for Francois and/or if she was given it later for Oscar (Pistorius).

""It could have been my photo Reeva wanted for Oscar for Valentine.""

Steenkamp, ​​the day before her murder at a gift shop near Pistorius's house in Silver Woods Estate, east of Pretoria, picture frames with photographs wrap she supposedly wanted to give as a Valentine gift for Pistorius.

Barclay said the photo of Reeva on the bed, never published, is one of a handful of photos as a tribute in a book he would compile it to Steenkamp's parents.

Another photograph, Barclay taken last August by Steenkamp, is ​​at her funeral notice.

Barclay and Steenkamp met together about two years ago on a photo shoot. He photographed her four times.

The Friday before her death, Barclay and Steenkamp met at Ice Models in Johannesburg Steenkamp's agency.

They talked about her participation in the SABC1 reality show Tropika Island of Treasure 5 and a photo shoot on a beach that they wanted to do together.

"Reeva was a hell of a cute girl. She was humble and always smiling.

"Her smile made you smile," Barclay said.

"She was easy to shoot with a camera. Any photographer's dream."

According to Barclay Reeva always done commercial photo sessions. Their last photo session was the first "sensual, non-commercial and just for fun."

In addition to the photo on the bed, she wanted him to take a photo of the tattoo on her back.

The brand with the words *Solo dio puo giudicarmi* (only God can judge me) has never been professionally photographed.

Barclay Valentines morning heard Pistorius shot his girlfriend, "I always hoped it was not Reeva".

Garreth Barclay tells of his last photo shoot last year with Reeva Steenkamp, ​​who was shot dead on Valentine's Day by Oscar Pistorius.

original source: http://m.news24.com/volksblad/Suid-...u-foto-van-haar-op-bed-vir-kerel-gee-20130319

 

[Carol70]

I just watched the doc, and retract my previous statement..I didn't find it disappointing at all, it was actually a lovely tribute to her. My heart breaks for them both. I'm glad they didn't discuss the case too much and understandably they just want answers, much like the rest of us!

If anyone gets the link for the other doc about the technical aspects of the case that was advertised after this one, please post the link.

 

[whiterum]

I just watched the doc, and retract my previous statement..I didn't find it disappointing at all, it was actually a lovely tribute to her. My heart breaks for them both. I'm glad they didn't discuss the case too much and understandably they just want answers, much like the rest of us!

If anyone gets the link for the other doc about the technical aspects of the case that was advertised after this one, please post the link.

Carol I watched this last night and this is an outline of some of the points that I can remember.

The second part 'Pistorius Trial The Key Questions'.

A sound test to show the witnesses could hear nothing till around 50 metres. .

The question was asked "Was key evidence altered after the shooting" . OP did not mention in his affidavit why the two cell phones lay on the bathroom floor.

An expert on mobile phone texts etc, said he can check the movements of mobile phones down to a radius of about three metres . He said he would not be able not tell if upstairs or downstairs but could tell if phones were used say for example in the tv room or the bathroom on the same floor and/or if texts etc were deleted.

Conclusion:

The acoustic/ sound test was in favour of the defence as was their opinion.

The darkness in the room test in favour of the defence. (A supposed reconstructed replica of the room). Pros lady if now you can't see her one would expect you would make sure she was not in the vicinity.

Other than the ballistics the defence guy said there was very little in favour of the prosecution.

Pros Lady , I appreciate that's the way your thinking but I wish you the best of luck because I think you have got an uphill battle. Your losing sight of all the evidence that was found by the police immediately after the shooting in that bedroom and the bathroom. There is the toxicology reports that we are still waiting for. The post -mortem I am confident that is going to strengthen and support the ballistic examination.

Defence conclude ultimately at the maximum culpable homicide. Prosecution at the very minimum culpable homicide.

 

[Pisto_lius]

That's a big piece of news, if indeed RS had her phone in the toilet with her when she was shot. It makes much more sense than two phones in front of the shower, on the bath mat. It changes my theory on what happened. Originally, I thought perhaps the two fought outside the door and OP knocked her phone out of her hands, and dropped his, before she ran into the toilet.

But new questions arise. Why was RS in the toilet with her phone? If she brought it in there to call for help, why didn't she do just that? Unless they were fighting, and he shot her immediately after she locked herself in the toilet.

I can't believe that publication published the bloody toilet picture. But there's less blood than I thought there would be.

I don't believe this report Reeva was holding her mobile phone when she was shot inside the toilet. For me this is tabloid fairy-tale like much else.

IMO she took her phone before she ran into the toilet but it fell out of her hand as she tried to open the door. And so I tend to believe the phone fell down on the bath mat where investigators found it.


snipped

And even if I'm the only one: I don't think Botha is the betrayer who operates for the defence. For me it's too conspicuous, how Botha is shown as the scapegoat from all sides (defense and media).

The defence utilizes the media to make us believe Botha is a betrayer and liar - that clearly show the reportings. And it works, as you can see .

Why all the reports and photos that are negative for the defencee, disappear as soon but all the negative reportings about Botha are still there?

And why we were all surprised when we saw that there was much less blood at the scene as we thought? Because the defence and the media told us over more than 3 months there was a lot of blood all over the house. And we believed it, too - until we saw the photos.

 

[soozieqtips]

I understand what you mean about Reeva's parents but think about:

There are so many reports and pictures about OP and his story. It seems most of the media (and people) forget there is a victim = Reeva. And I guess they did this documentation to show the people there is another side of the story than OP's story. And there are not only OP and his family who are desperate and shocked - there is a family, lost her only daughter killed by several shots through a closed door done by her boyfriend.

They are not only searching for answers - it's their kind of grieve work and folks should understand this and feel with them.

A few days back I tried to explain why I could imagine Reeva would stay with OP:



And now that Reeva is dead, many things for her family and friends get a different meaning and that's what they want to tell the public.

We mustn't forget: many things you haven't seen before look differently in hindsight.

I agree with everything in your post. Reeva's parents have barely had a chance to voice their own grief and shock, whereas we know practically everything OP does and everything he thinks, thanks to using his family and friends as his voicebox since the beginning. "Poor Oscar is still in deep mourning - "Poor Oscar lost his beloved Reeva who he 'adored' and who made him happier than he'd ever been" - "Poor Oscar is still suffering greatly and has taken to reading the Bible and 'quietly' going to church".

Poor Oscar. Always poor Oscar.

Yet for Reeva's parents - their grief is glossed over as if it doesn't really matter, because after all, it was a 'tragic' accident, and OP is the victim, since Reeva is the one who (inadvertently) put him in this position. I'm glad her parents got a chance to speak out and remind people that their daughter lost her life in the most horrific and violent way imaginable because of the actions of Oscar Pistorius and they still have no idea what really happened.

OP is still alive. Even if he goes to prison for 25 years, he'll still be alive. His family can visit him, hug him, hold him, tell them they love him. Reeva's parents can never have that with Reeva again. All they'll ever have are the images of what her last moments on this earth must have been like and how terrified she must have been.

it must be very very difficult for them knowing that this man is out on bail, living in comfort with Uncle Arnie, has full access to his family, friends and lawyers, who very likely murdered their daughter in cold blood - and who then made up a web of lies to justify his actions. How are they supposed to reconcile with that when OP's feelings are always being thrust down everyone's throats? I was glad they did the interview and reminded people there are other 'victims' in this apart from poor Oscar.

 

[Pisto_lius]

What occurred to me when I saw the two bullet holes on the photos:

1. This two bullet holes show that OP precise fired the area of the toilet. That demonstrate that his aim was on a person on or near by the toilet seat.

It was not someone randomly shooting through a door anywhere else what you should expect if he was so scared of a burglar inside the toilet and didn’t know where exactly this person was in the toilet.

He knew exactly WHO was in the toilet and WHERE !!


2. If there were bullet holes in the broken panel of the door, these bullets wouldn't've hit Reeva but the wall on the right side of the toilet.