General Discussion Thread #4

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius hocus pocus Murder suspect to do magic trick on Dynamo telly show

ATHLETE Oscar Pistorius is to appear on magician Dynamo’s telly show – despite being charged with the murder of his girlfriend.

The Paralympic athlete, who has admitted shooting Reeva Steenkamp, will be seen taking part in a magic stunt as part of the British conjurer’s tour around South Africa for the new series of Magician Impossible.

Oscar, who is known as the Blade Runner, filmed the appearance last November — three months before the shocking Valentine’s Day incident.

Insiders said bosses at telly channel Watch had considered axing the stunt but have decided to go ahead with it barring any new developments in the criminal case.

A source denied it would be disrespectful to Reeva’s parents, saying Oscar’s segment would be presented as part of Dynamo’s journey through South Africa.

The insider said: “It is just a short clip of Oscar doing a magic stunt with Dynamo and is a small part of the overall show.

“The episode it is due to feature in hasn’t been finished yet and bosses did consider whether it should be cut. But they have decided it will stay, barring any major new evidence that comes to light in Oscar’s case.

http://topcelebritylink.com/oscar-p...spect-to-do-magic-trick-on-dynamo-telly-show/

 

[whiterum]

http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing


Check out 0.41 on the video you will catch a glimpse of what seems like the arm of a dark brown leather chair or couch which would be situated on the left side of the bed as you face it. So it appears that the cream blood spattered sofa may not be the couch that is in the bedroom. On that wall near the corner there are two round spots and another few further to the right but it could be spots of dirt.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing


Check out 0.41 on the video you will catch a glimpse of what seems like the arm of a dark brown leather chair or couch which would be situated on the left side of the bed as you face it. So it appears that the cream blood spattered sofa may not be the couch that is in the bedroom. On that wall near the corner there are two round spots and another few further to the right but it could be spots of dirt.

Thx for yr attention Whiterum .. The news also says

The pictures inside the house show a trail of blood from the bathroom as the paralympian carried Ms Steenkamp downstairs after shouting for help, with flecks of blood on the wall, on the sofa downstairs and on the landing.

We all missed that !! FUNNY !!

 

[whiterum]

Thx for yr attention Whiterum .. The news also says

The pictures inside the house show a trail of blood from the bathroom as the paralympian carried Ms Steenkamp downstairs after shouting for help, with flecks of blood on the wall, on the sofa downstairs and on the landing.

We all missed that !! FUNNY !!

It was me that first suggested it lol, I thought the commentator in the video got her wires crossed since both you and Pisto noticed that the blood spattered cream sofa was nowhere to be seen under the stairs in the crime scene video. I thought then that it might be the couch situated in the bedroom that Botha spoke off. But now it's appears that it may be brown couch in the bedroom. It seems that I got it wrong but where in the house is it if that picture of the stairs is a correct one.

 

[whiterum]

http://topcelebritylink.com/oscar-p...spect-to-do-magic-trick-on-dynamo-telly-show/

“

The episode it is due to feature in hasn’t been finished yet and bosses did consider whether it should be cut. But they have decided it will stay, barring any major new evidence that comes to light in Oscar’s case.
“But they are continuing to monitor the situation to see if anything happens that would cause them to take it out.”

Is this for real! What on earth could be more major than being up on a charge of premeditated murder for the shooting to death of a young woman. If this wouldn't cause them to take it out , what the hell would. It's a disgrace that anyone could show such insensitivity to the Steenkamp's grief at the loss of their daughter to come out with such a statement!

 

[Estelle]

It was me that first suggested it lol, I thought the commentator in the video got her wires crossed since both you and Pisto noticed that the blood spattered cream sofa was nowhere to be seen under the stairs in the crime scene video. I thought then that it might be the couch situated in the bedroom that Botha spoke off. But now it's appears that it may be brown couch in the bedroom. It seems that I got it wrong but where in the house is it if that picture of the stairs is a correct one.

I thought it could have been this sofa but it is navy blue!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ius-and-Reeva-Steenkamp-before-her-death.html

 

[Estelle]

Could the sofa have been moved by OP's team before the police arrived?

Answer: No

Could the sofa have been removed by the police or forensics team just as they removed the door?

Answer: Maybe

What other possibilities could there be?

 

[Estelle]

I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


1. A sofa located under the stairs sometimes before the shooting




2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




3. Also from the leaked crime scene photos = Sky News (who leaked all the photos) reported this sofa was located under the stairs



It looks like the sofa in photo 1 - doesn't it? But where it is in photo 2 if they reported it was located under the stairs? And how could there be blood spatter on the sofa if it wasn't located under the stairs?

I am confused, too

This is another sofa. It is L-shaped!

The man sitting next to me on a luxurious, L-shaped cream sofa at his open-plan home in Pretoria, South Africa, is a sprinter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...xclusive-walking-wild-side.html#ixzz2YXoIZlJz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[whiterum]

Could the sofa have been moved by OP's team before the police arrived?

Answer: No

Could the sofa have been removed by the police or forensics team just as they removed the door?

Answer: Maybe

What other possibilities could there be?

I think you are right Estelle, could have been removed by the forensics team, to preserve the blood evidence , maybe along with the door. If that is the case then the hired defence experts will not have had a chance to examine it either before the BH.

 

[whiterum]

This is another sofa. It is L-shaped!

The man sitting next to me on a luxurious, L-shaped cream sofa at his open-plan home in Pretoria, South Africa, is a sprinter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...xclusive-walking-wild-side.html#ixzz2YXoIZlJz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-Andy-Hooper-visited-South-Africans-home.html

I think Estelle this may be the L shaped cream sofa pictured just before the comments section.

 

[whiterum]

I was thinking if the crime scene pictures were all taken at the same time why was the door still at the scene but the blood spattered cream sofa was not under the stairs.

 

[whiterum]

Was it blue ? Haahaha LOH.. really confused..

This is a photo of bedroom taken a while before , can this be the couch
with Reeva's bag on it ?



View attachment 35389

I think murder _ servant that this is the couch in the bedroom in the crime scene video with the long in width arms and the short in height back. The right arm of the sofa as you face it appears to be right up against the left-hand side of the bed wall, so if it is the above couch it must be positioned lengthways as you face it against the back wall alongside the bed. I would have thought it would be positioned sideways against the side wall like in some of the reconstructions.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...xclusive-walking-wild-side.html#ixzz2YXoIZlJz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

He has a black live-in caretaker, Frankie, who keeps his home spotless


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...nt-run-I-cheating-I-believe-purity-sport.html

Oscar Pistorius calls to his live-in caretaker from Malawi. 'Frankie, Frankie. Please can you bring me my legs, brother.'
The request is spoken in a soft South African accent at Pistorius's bachelor pad on a guarded estate outside Pretoria.
He - not Frankie - has just prepared us a lunch of chicken salad, avocado and nuts.


Does live -in caretaker mean 24 hours staying there ?
Frankie seems very close to OP... Locked bedroom door-open front door... HIMMM ...
Somebody sure well be questioned IMO.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I think murder _ servant that this is the couch in the bedroom in the crime scene video with the long in width arms and the short in height back. The right arm of the sofa as you face it appears to be right up against the left-hand side of the bed wall, so if it is the above couch it must be positioned lengthways as you face it against the back wall alongside the bed. I would have thought it would be positioned sideways against the side wall like in some of the reconstructions.

Yes. Probably it is.. I also imagined the couch in the bedroom was sideways on the left wall just next to the hallway

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Since two days I thought about the crime scene photos with bloodstains in the toilet and bathroom once more because several things are odd in these photos.

But now I'm too tired to give my thoughts about it. I will do it later

Anyway - there were alot of interesting considerations in your posts, really great! :clap:

Sleep well with sweet dreams - see/read you later fftobed:

Hey Pisto..Impatiently awaiting yr thoughts about that

 

[whiterum]

Yes. Probably it is.. I also imagined the couch in the bedroom was sideways on the left wall just next to the hallway

Just got an enlargement of that brown thing near the corner, its not a couch arm it is right down near the skirting board , think its just a cushion of some sort. So it"s back to the drawing board for the location of the blood spattered sofa lol.

 

[whiterum]

So how come that pale but broad blood get there is a big question for me now?? both left and also the back edge is a lot of bloody..Any comments?

I forgot to add the larger photo.. its a few posts above...
View attachment 35474

It appears to me that she may have been bleeding from the hip before entering the toilet and the right side of her shorts were already bloodied before she was positioned or sat down, not centre but over to the left of the toilet seat. She could have been leaning slightly to the left, with her left shoulder propped against the square jutting part of wall in the left corner for support.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Hey Pisto..Impatiently awaiting yr thoughts about that

You called me - here I'm again


As I said - I thought again about this two photos:





As you can see, the second photo quasi shows the continued of the first photo.


What struck me in the first photo:

When OP opened the toilet door and found Reeva she couldn't sit on the toilet bowl - with her feet in front of the bowl - and she also couldn't crouch between bowl and wall because if Oscar pulled her from this position into the bathroom you would see a dragging trace through the whole big pool of blood.

But there is only a small dragging trace right side at the end of the pool of blood (toward the door).

So, to me it looks like Reeva was slumped - but not lying - directly behind the door with her feet left side and the right side of her hip and head were where the pool of blood ends (toward the door) when OP opened the toilet door. It is striking that this area seems very clean, no blood stains/blood drops like in the back of the toilet. That's why I guess Reeva's body could have covered this area of the floor.

I can't see any blood soaked prosthetic leg footprints anywhere in the toilet and no blood drops from where the pool of blood in the toilet ends up to the bath mat. Only the big blood pool on the floor and some little blood drops right side on the wall opposite the door and left side beside the toilet bowl (and, of course, the blurred blood on the toilet seat).

Any boyfriend who has accidentally shot his beloved girlfriend in such a brutal manner would have a nervous breakdown, fall to his knees, caress, cradle her limp body to his chest and carry her out of the small toilet, not pull her out like a dead piece of meat.


What struck me in the second photo:

Here too - I really can't see any blood soaked prosthetic leg footprints anywhere in the bathroom but several fair-sized bloodstains in various places on the floor.

Some, but only few and small blood drops in this photo can be seen on both sides of the major bloodstains. Perhaps these little drops of blood are formed when OP carried Reeva in his arms to bring her downstairs. But because these blood drops are so small, I would say, Reeva already was dead when he did this.

The middle of the bloodstains also looks blurred - but this also may have been created when he moved her body to lift her up.

And apparently OP also has ensured that no blood stained his "valuable" bath mat.


Two other things that struck me in the first photo:

1. Why the toilet lid was open?
* If women finished peeing they close the toilet lid.

* And because DT found a spent bullet inside the toilet bowl it's impossible Reeva sat on the toilet when the shots were fired.

I could imagine OP and/or his helpers opened the toilet lid after the shooting so they might say Reeva was in the toilet for peeing and not because she fled into the toilet for fear. Not for nothing they brought the allegedly result of the autopsy report with the empty bladder already in the bail hearing into play.

2. The smashed part of toilet door

* The hole OP smashed with the cricket bat is quite narrow but OP's arms and shoulders are very sturdy. And I would say the lower edge of the hole is at a high of approx. 80 cm. So, to me, it's impossible he would be able to grab through such a narrow hole a key that lay on the floor of the other side of this door.

He put his arm through the broken door and found the key which has miraculously fallen on the floor inside within his hands reach? Besides - I said it before - IMO Reeva sat at this place the key fallen down.

* OP smashed the door beside the lock. How could the key fall from the lock when he only beat on the door panel - even more when Reeva allegedly turned the key in the lock around?
Why didn't he directly smashed the lock with the cricket bat? This would open the door much faster.

IMO - he played for time, not only regarding opening the toilet door but regarding all his actions after the shooting.

- He has made not a single attempt to stop the bleeding of her wounds.

- He knew how hard Reeva was wounded, but he didn't call the ambulance or Stander immediately after it "dawned" on him that it was Reeva, to which he had shot.

If we assume the shooting happened around 03.00/03.10 am - paramedics arrived at approx. 03.40 am - then approx. 30 minutes passed until help arrived.

30 minutes - for far too long to survive a headshot. Five minutes, and paramedics possibly could revive Reeva (Idk). But that wasn't what OP wanted! Because then Reeva possibly would have been able to tell what REALLY happened.

 

[Pisto_lius]

I would like to add that IMO we should not longer think too much about our theories of what may be happened, but better take OP's affidavit as the basis. Because this is his testimony - he can't change what he said there and for prosecutors this also is their basis. They do not have to create a totally new story - "all" they have to do is to show (to proof) that the most important points of OP's affidavit are wrong. And that are IMO

- the number of his shots
- the angles of the shots
- kind and location of the bloodstains
- time, content and persons of calls and messages of all the phones
- the "empty bladder" doesn't fit to the DT story - Reeva went to toilet for peeing, OP pottered around at the balcony, minutes later (03.00/03.10 am) the shots, but Reeva died not before OP arrived with her body at the entrance hall - 3 minutes before paramedics arrived (03.37 am). More then 20 minutes in which her kidneys would make 1 ml urine per minute. But Perumal claimed what NOT could be

"The bladder was completely empty. We couldn`t even get a millimeter or two for toxicology."

other, simpler points to be proof will be

- Reeva's overnight bag and her slippers were found on the left side of the bed, crucially the holster for the gun was found under the left side of the bed. This clearly indicates that she was sleeping on the left side of the bed, however his lawyer claims due to his shoulder injury, that night he slept on the bed's left side. Then why were Reeva's personal belongings found on the left side of the bed?

- It wasn't "pich dark" in the bedroom when he went to the balcony because balcony door, curtains and blinds were open.


And don't forget the judge’s questions in his ruling on Oscar Pistorius’s bail application:

* Why did he not ascertain Steenkamp's whereabouts?

* Why did he not verify who was in the toilet?

* Why did Steenkamp not scream back from the toilet?

* Why did the deceased and the accused not escape through the bedroom door rather than venture into the toilet?

* Why would the accused venture into danger knowing the intruder was in the toilet, leaving himself open to attack?

* He returned to the dangerous area. What if the intruder was waiting for him?

And he also said he had difficulty with the defence's version of why the accused slept on the other side of the bed from usual that night.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Could the sofa have been moved by OP's team before the police arrived?

Answer: No

Could the sofa have been removed by the police or forensics team just as they removed the door?

Answer: Maybe

What other possibilities could there be?

IMO

1. Police wouldn't remove the sofa or other pieces of furniture which are part of their evidence if that's not really necessary. Prosecutors must give documentary evidence to the court and for their case it's important to show where this sofa exactly was located. Only by this way they can prove how these blood drops could dropped on this sofa. E.g. either if OP carried Reeva downstairs (if it was located on his way downstairs) or if Reeva ran past the sofa (if it was located in the bedroom where, as OP and his DT claimed, no shot was fired).

2. For forensic people it's not necessary to remove the sofa because the only one who was wounded was Reeva, so it's clear it's her blood on the sofa.

The toilet door was removed by police for two reasons IMO:

a) The forensic/ballistic people couldn't conduct all their tests at the crime scene.
http://forensicsciencecentral.co.uk/firearms.shtml

b) Prosecutors/police wanted to prevent, that photos of the door were leaked and shown to OP's DT before they completed their investigations. Only then official crime scene pictures should be revealed to lawyers.

I was thinking if the crime scene pictures were all taken at the same time why was the door still at the scene but the blood spattered cream sofa was not under the stairs.

1. I'm not sure the crime scene pictures were all taken at the same time, but police and forensic people worked at the scene several days. E.g. Botha took the toilet door down and sent it away for forensics on the Saturday (following the shooting).

Perhaps they investigated the toilet and bathroom on another day than the rest of the house.

2. I noticed, that in the Sky News video parts of the house were shown which not really were taken on the day of the crime. E.g. they showed the passage to the bathroom (with a little corner of the bedroom). In the passage to the bathroom wasn't a single bloodstain, although OP carried Reeva downstairs through the passage.

So, I could imagine now, that the picture in the video that showed the stairs - without the tricky sofa we miss - also was not taken on the day of the crime.

Furthermore I noticed, that they say in their video

.... that appeared to be drops of blood on the creme sofa under the stairs.

But in their written report they write

The pictures inside the house show a trail of blood from the bathroom as the paralympian carried Ms Steenkamp downstairs after shouting for help, with flecks of blood on the wall, on the sofa downstairs and on the landing.

To me, that are two different locations they reported and may be that's the solution of the puzzle that confuse us so much :floorlaugh: