General Discussion Thread #4

[whiterum]

Well the Pros. case is based on where the casings were and the earwitnesses etc.

This all indicates that a single shot from the entrance into the bathroom, apparently hit Reeva. Then the 17 minute gap--think of the 5th OP's phone now, not the diversionary Reeva phone--then a rapid set of 3 final shots.

So your scenario does not fit a single final volley.

That commenter was intelligently finding a way to see how OP knew exactly where she was when he fired the final volley. But there could be other ways how OP knew where she was for the final volley, if Pros version is true.

I wonder with all the recent influx of reports , documentaries, re-enactments of OP's version , why is the withholding of extremely important evidence, the phone he used after the killing never mentioned by either side.

OP or his defence did not hand this over to the investigation officer, yet they will criticise the police for this,that and the other. IMO the with- holding of this phone is a greater impediment of justice than any mistakes the police made because it was intentional.

They will gloss over as unimportant the phones found on the Bathroom floor with a mild dismissive comment but in all these reports where is the mention of the 5th phone. IMO this is proof of who really is behind these reports since anything detrimental to OP seems to be taboo.

 

[shane13]

I wonder with all the recent influx of reports , documentaries, re-enactments of OP's version , why is the withholding of extremely important evidence, the phone he used after the killing never mentioned by either side.

OP or his defence did not hand this over to the investigation officer, yet they will criticise the police for this,that and the other. IMO the with- holding of this phone is a greater impediment of justice than any mistakes the police made because it was intentional.

They will gloss over as unimportant the phones found on the Bathroom floor with a mild dismissive comment but in all these reports where is the mention of the 5th phone. IMO this is proof of who really is behind these reports since anything detrimental to OP seems to be taboo.

Well said.

BIBBM: Your “after” is an assumption.
It seems that I am the only one in the world stating the possibility of OP phoning for advice before the final volley of shots.
And that may be the reason for not allowing the Pros to have the phone until…

 

[shane13]

Hilton Botha praised in murder case

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Hilton-Botha-praised-in-murder-case-20130605

Many victims of crime--or their surviving family--have praised Botha throughout his career.

IN OP case, he seems to have been made the scapegoat for whatever will end up happening.

If Carl P, or Atty Oldwage or someone else pocketed the 5th phone at the crime scene before Botha got there and later the Pros and the magistrate seemed fine with Roux announcing that the DT has it, how can Botha be blamed for these high level shenaningans?

And the media goes off about Reeva's phone, when it is this OP phone that was held for at least a week by DT, and was the one that was used to call people by OP.

 

[whiterum]

Well said.

BIBBM: Your “after” is an assumption.
It seems that I am the only one in the world stating the possibility of OP phoning for advice before the final volley of shots.
And that may be the reason for not allowing the Pros to have the phone until…

Everything is an assumption as we do not know for sure we can only assume at this point. But i do agree there must be something very incriminating on that phone. So before/ after the killing is what I should have posted as besides what you posted above, there may be other information, texts etc on that phone that may also have a huge bearing on this case.

 

[shane13]

Everything is an assumption as we do not know for sure we can only assume at this point. But i do agree there must be something very incriminating on that phone. So before/ after the killing is what I should have posted as besides what you posted above, there may be other information, texts etc on that phone that may also have a huge bearing on this case.

Well hypothetically speaking: Let's say he chased and shot her in a rage. He then comes out of the rage, and the enormity hits him.
He knows what might happen to him now, and calls for advice. Sadly maybe the advice he gets includes what he does next and the alibi type stuff included.

Everyone just assumes he called only after the final volley of shots. But perhaps that--getting advice which maybe he did not at first want to take? is the reason for the 17 minute delay?
Hypothetically speaking.

 

[whiterum]

Well hypothetically speaking: Let's say he chased and shot her in a rage. He then comes out of the rage, and the enormity hits him.
He knows what might happen to him now, and calls for advice. Sadly maybe the advice he gets includes what he does next and the alibi type stuff included.

Everyone just assumes he called only after the finaly volley of shots. But perhaps that--getting advice which maybe he did not at first want to take? is the reason for the 17 minute delay?
Hypothetically speaking.

Your scenario could explain why also there was a rush to the scene by his family/ lawyer / friends etc: Some even before the police/ emergency services arrived. If I were Reeva's family I would hire a top expert to examine the phone and all defence reports if any, on the contents. This matter should not be allowed to be swept under the carpet. The defence if they are pressed will have to address the issue. I would also have everything examined for any signs of tampering. I don't know if this would be possible at this stage, as I know nothing about phones. This would be quicker as police in SA 's results seem to be very,very slow in returning.

I also expect her family may not have the means to hire an expert /s like OP does but since I hope they will be suing OP, the fee maybe could be paid later, it would be worth every penny.

 

[shane13]

Your scenario could explain why also there was a rush to the scene by his family/ lawyer / friends etc: Some even before the police/ emergency services arrived. If I were Reeva's family I would hire a top expert to examine the phone and all defence reports if any, on the contents. This matter should not be allowed to be swept under the carpet. The defence if they are pressed will have to address the issue. I would also have everything examined for any signs of tampering. I don't know if this would be possible at this stage, as I know nothing about phones. This would be quicker as police in SA 's results seem to be very,very slow in returning.

I also expect her family may not have the means to hire an expert /s like OP does but since I hope they will be suing OP, the fee maybe could be paid later, it would be worth every penny.

BBM. Ah, but that's my point. In BH Court, Roux was not pressed by Pros. or the Magistrate, when he admitted this remarkablle fact--having that 5th phone for a week!

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I have lots of doubts abt Christo not to mention his famous ladder of course..:floorlaugh:

The neighbour Christo will apparently be one of OP's witnesses ..He will be there to say;
*OP's house is always pitch dark at nights except for one light
*His house is the nearest house to OP's but still he mistook the gunshots with a thunder (!)

Chisto ,a grown up man (34) says he was awakened in that particular summer night at 03:08 with what he thought was thunder and waits (!) an hour for the rain to start , an hour later , he goes to his bathroom , opens the bathroom window and sees OP's house with all lights on and blue and red flashings from the house. He then does nothing, doesn't wonder what was going on in his disabled close friend's house at that time of the night, doesn't go to his house ,doesnt hear his yelling from the balcony , nor phones him .

Those statements reminded me of OP's weird affidavit not less funny than that.Have you ever used the bathroom /toilet for just have a look outside?
He goes to the toilet and suddenly thinks let me look at outside how is the weather tonight ? is it raining ? and sees OP' s house lights are on. And have you ever waited an hour for the rain to start ?What happens if it starts at night ? I don't buy that!

1-Why does he wait an hour to look out from the window when he heard the thunder ?
2- why does he wait an hour for the rain to start ?
3- and why does he look outside from the bathroom window , not the bedroom window or the other windows ? Here we go!

I have two scenarios
1-IF Christo was at his home that night, he rushed to OP's house . I guess the EM Santander also saw him there. But the lawyer sent him back to his house before police arrived. He prob was clever enough to know that they needed a witness.. BTW I believe from the beginning that EM also a friend of OP will be on OP's side.

2- Christo might not be at home that night.. so he didn't come at all. The pros should investigate his whereabouts that day , his footage to the complex, his credit cards. That was a Valentines Day he might be on a vacation if RS'S lucky enough and won't be a valid witness.

Just my opinions.

 

[Patticake]

I have lots of doubts abt Christo not to mention his famous ladder of course..:floorlaugh:

The neighbour Christo will apparently be one of OP's witnesses ..He will be there to say;
*OP's house is always pitch dark at nights except for one light
*His house is the nearest house to OP's but still he mistook the gunshots with a thunder (!)

snip

Has it been noted that OP's next door neighbor is reported to be his "best friend". How can he be unbiased?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-cuddle-1900126

Pistorius' best friend Christo Menelaou said: "He was tickling her. They were lovers and also real friends."

He added: "He cries a lot and says over and over, 'I'm sorry'."

 

[natsound]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-court-17-minutes-1720257

Just curious if the one witness discussed in the article above is the only source we have for the 17-minute gap between shots.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21514428

But the article above says nothing about a 17-minute gap.

"We have the statement of a person who said after he heard gunshots, he went to his balcony and saw the light was on. Then he heard a female screaming two-three times, then more gunshots," Detective Botha told the court.

And here is an interesting outtake from this article, regarding the people who heard the arguing:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...night-reeva-steenkamp-was-killed-8640799.html


The prosecution must provide a motive to have him convicted of premeditated murder, and part of that case relies on two witness statements saying the couple were arguing. But, in Pistorius Trial: The Key Questions, on Monday at 10pm, those statements from neighbours living 300 metres from the athlete's home, are called into question. Technology used to measure the noise impact of new train lines suggests that voices arguing could not be heard from 300 metres away, but only from a distance of about 50 metres.

I say all of this because I find it hard to believe there would be a 17-minute gap between shots. Why on earth would OP shoot her, then wait 17 minutes, then shoot her again, then make emergency calls, carry her down the stairs, etc? It seems the neighbors have slightly different versions of what they heard.

 

[natsound]

The more I think about the bullets, the more doubts come to me

Perumal said they (supposedly) have found a bullet inside the toilet bowl which was overlooked by investigators.

I can't believe this because the toilet lid was open (as you can see on the photos) so I'm sure the investigators also looked inside the toilet bowl and would see if there was a bullet inside.

Could this assertion might have been not more than another trap to confuse the prosecution?

Then why the defence restrained this important piece of evidence until the bail hearing instead deliver it to the investigators immediately?

Did the prosecution ever seen this bullet??? Nothing heard about this.

As far as the toilet bowl... didn't the defense bring this up during the bail hearing (finding the bullet in the toilet bowl), and the prosecution didn't argue with it? If it weren't true, I'd think the prosecution would have called bulls**t.

 

[natsound]

http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing

Really can't tell whether OP was on his legs or not from the covered-up bullet holes. If you're aiming for someone on the toilet, that's where you shoot... whether or not you're on stumps or on prosthetics. Would be nice to see the uncovered bullet holes.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing

Really can't tell whether OP was on his legs or not from the covered-up bullet holes. If you're aiming for someone on the toilet, that's where you shoot... whether or not you're on stumps or on prosthetics. Would be nice to see the uncovered bullet holes.

I agree and thats why Botha said it was not important for pros anymore whether He was on his stumps or not..IMO

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

DId you notice the 3 stickers on the toilet floor ? Maybe they are for the bullets and the cartridges..

 

[whiterum]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-reeva-steenkamp-1928549

Enlarge the gunman in Reeva's painting, doesn't it look like an outline of OP on his cheetah legs

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I believe that all the calls and messages abt the case are somehow deleted from OP's missing phone during that one week period by the defence.

What about that complex's cameras? I would assume that the cameras should be on esp at nights for security purposes. We saw Reevas footage in her car to begin with , so those cameras should have recorded all those people arrivals with their timings unless that CD is lost.

*Were the cams recording that night?
*If not, were they recording the previous nights?
*WHo was in charge of that cams and CD's?Was it the Estate Manager?
*Are there any other entrances to that complex to avoid cams?
*There must be some street cameras also .They should all be checked IMO..

Just my opinions ...

 

[whiterum]

I agree and thats why Botha said it was not important for pros anymore whether He was on his stumps or not..IMO

If the trajectory of the shots forensic test suggest / prove he was on his stumps this finding will be of little consequence to the prosecution case, since he could also show premeditation whilst walking on stumps.

But if it can be proven that the trajectory of the shots could not have been possible whilst on his stumps, that he had to be wearing his prosthetics, then he will be proven a liar. His entire affidavit will be called into question. That he felt vulnerable on his stumps. That around ten he was in bed watching tv and his prosthetic legs were off. That he had slept and woke around three (he would not be wearing prosthetics whilst asleep in bed). That he put on his legs ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick down the door, his version will be totally discredited.

 

[whiterum]

BBM. Ah, but that's my point. In BH Court, Roux was not pressed by Pros. or the Magistrate, when he admitted this remarkablle fact--having that 5th phone for a week!

I can't understand why the defence got away with that and that none of the media have pursued this or mentioned it. In the UK, if the defence or anyone withheld vital evidence taken from a suspected murder scene, they would be brought to book, they could be charged with perverting the course of justice. Yet in all these UK based TV productions ( don't know why they are sticking their big noses in anyway) there is not even a mention of this IMO criminal act to say the least.

 

[LaurieAClaase]

DId you notice the 3 stickers on the toilet floor ? Maybe they are for the bullets and the cartridges..

According to an annotated photo in Beeld, the stickers on the floor are drag marks - 'sleepmerke' in Afrikaans
http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2013-06-01-foto-ontstel-oscar-se-span

 

[Pisto_lius]

I expect this report will disappear from the www very quickly like many others


Pistorius father “stole money from Oscar”, says a friend

Posted on June 6, 2013
by Jaime Velazquez, freelance journalist for Southern Africa.

Henke Pistorius, father to paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius, “stole money from Oscar” while he was managing him in the early days of his career, says a close friend. The ‘blade runner’ and his father are distant since many years, and it’s his uncle Arnold the one who is supporting him in his trail for the murder of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

“When Oscar started to run and his father was his manager, there was some money missing. He (Henke) stole from him; that’s why he looked for another manager”, said a close friend of paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius, in condition of anonymity.

Henke and his son have been distant since many years, specially after the death of his mother, Sheila. But when Oscar started to run, suddenly his father came back to scene, recalls a friend of Oscar. “He saw an ATM in Oscar”.

The cold relationship between both of them was clear during the London Olympics, where Oscar Pistorius run against the elite of athleticism. According to different sources, Henke went to London but was not able to access the stadium. He called South African Olympic committee trying to get a ticket to see his son in the most important moment of his life.

During the trial for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp, allegedly shot by Oscar on Saint Valentine’s eve, Henke has been barely seen next to his son.

http://bloodyagent.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/pistorius-father-stole-money-from-oscar-says-a-friend/

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OT - Sorry, but unfortunately I haven't time for discussion in the moment, but I'll be back