General Discussion Thread #4

[shane13]

OT

Just saw Dexter S8, ep1.

Was excellent. Gonna be a great ending season.

 

[Estelle]

BIB - I tried to explain my opinion regarding the blood spatter on the sofa weeks before but this isn't an accusation , because of the lots of postings no one can remember every single.

So, here once more :

IMO - the blood stains on the sofa fit a lot more to the theory that there was a battle at the foyer where Reeva got the first shot before she ran upstairs where she got others or maybe the final shot to her head.

Maybe she was hit in the hip or arm, ran through the foyer, past the sofa (that was located near the stairs), trying to dodge Oscar's attacs while her blood sprayed on the sofa. And for this scenario - IMO - the reports of the trophies strewn across the floor would fit.

Let me give my opinion to some other points of your posting :



I don't believe the reports about Reeva's car with open doors in front of the house. If this would be true, Botha or Nel would mention this in the bail hearing because this would change their opinion of what happened.

But I agree that he put her body downstairs to cover up her initial bleedings arised of the shot he fired to her in the hallway.



If Reeva sat on the sofa or OP laid her there then it must have been more blood at one place at the sofa and not only some blood splatter spread over a fairly wide range as the photo shows.



I don't believe OP carried Reeva upstairs. To me it makes more sense Reeva ran upstairs by herself . And at the point where the photo shows blood spatters at the wall of the stair he hit her the second time.

Maybe this time in her arm so that she flailed. This would explain to me the blood spatter on the wall in this area.

I could imagine the cartridges of these two bullets (shots outside the toilet) later were collected by OP or his team.



If Reeva already was hit two times before she reached (and closed the toilet) and Oscar then fired four times through the door, only one of those bullets could have hit Reeva. The other three bullets would have left marks on the wall in the toilet.

But if my theory before - Reeva was hit two times outside the toilet - isn't right and Reeva really had been hit three times inside the toilet with closed door then I still wondering how he could know so exactly where she was in the toilet that three of four shots could hit her but only one failed?

The whole scenario of the shooting is very suspicious but as OP and his DT try to make us believe how it happend I don't believe it - never ever ! But until now I still have no explanation that makes sense for all points



He SAID he used the cricket bat to knock down the door but is this the truth?

It was found in the bathroom on the bath mat - but there was no blood. And Reeva lay on the ground so he couldn't hit her with the bat when he smashed the door.

I have no explanation why the cricket bat then was bloody.



I believe Reeva could take her phone to call for help before she fled into the toilet. Her overnight bag was on the sofa beside the bed - very close to the bathroom passage. But it get out of her hand befor she could close the toilet door and fell on the bath mat.

And I believe OP ran back into the bedroom after the shooting to fetch his phone with which he made his first calls. His phone also was found on the bath mat. And while he was waiting for the first people coming to the house he encrypted both phones.

For the rest of your posting - I quite agree with you

Few weeks ago there were reports "poor Oscar" must sell his (killer)house, horses and cars because the trial consumes all of his money.

And while Reeva's parents don't know how they get to sleep by all their grief and sorrow and on top be reviled by media, "poor Oscar" now buys a new luxury car.

And his team lie - as always ..... Unbelievable! :jail:


Oscar takes ‘beautiful’ young woman to see his racy R1.5m Audi R8

https://twitter.com/alex_binge This is OP's female cousin who lives in the UK. She is mousy blonde.

Read her brother, Graham Binge's, statement. It says that OP told him on Feb 13 he was going to buy a car for his sister!

http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/justin-nichlas-divaris-witness-statement.pdf

Now Uncle Arnie claims he is buying one for him!

But is he really buying the blonde bombshell, Erin Stear, a new car for doing him a favour?

Although Erin denied having an affair with Pistorious her testimony will be used in the investigation, Stear is not the only girl investigators are questioning about their relationship with the Blade Runner, it has been said he used 4 different cell phones to communicate with these girls.

However, it says Erin is not single at the moment, her boyfriend according to her Facebook profile is Joshua Reinecke.

http://fabwags.com/erin-stear-the-blade-runner-oscar-pistorius-affair/

But that has changed and been deleted now.

https://www.facebook.com/erin.stear

So does OP offer to buy cars for everyone?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Could you tell me how you derived that? TIA.

Apologies if I misunderstood. I assumed you were speaking of the manned security entrance to the estate. Google maps have a scale bar that can be used to estimate distance. I used a ruler to obtain a rough estimate.

 

[shane13]

Apologies if I misunderstood. I assumed you were speaking of the manned security entrance to the estate. Google maps have a scale bar that can be used to estimate distance. I used a ruler to obtain a rough estimate.

No, you did understand quite well. Thanks

I do not see any scale bar in the photo posted.
Do you have another one that shows the scale bar?
TIA

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Does anyone know where Oscar lived in relation to the security entrance?

I told a friend this whole sad saga, and the first thing she asked was, “Why didn’t security people immediately go to OP’s house after the first shot?
I.e, 17 minutes earlier.

I think I read or once saw that OP’s house is near the gate, but can’t find proof.

Does anyone know how far or near his house is to the security gate?

TIA

Probably the security heard the first shot but didn't know from which house the sound came or maybe it was from outside they might think..
dont know.. Maybe waited for sb's call. they surely should react earlier when they heard the sound....

 

[shane13]

Crooked cops: National police commissioner General Riah Phiyega has ordered a purge of convicted criminals from the SA Police Service (SAPS).

“National police commissioner General Riah Phiyega has ordered a purge of convicted criminals from the SA Police Service (SAPS). Phiyega’s instruction is contained in a confidential letter to the ministry of police, top generals and senior commanders, and includes an admission that the police service is populated with murderers, rapists, fraudsters and other offenders.And, she revealed, an audit has found that there are cops behind bars who are still drawing their monthly salaries”

…

“Another disturbing trend is that of commanders who manufacture false criminal cases or make false allegations of misconduct against subordinates to disadvantage and deprive them of promotion…”

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/phiyega-to-purge-crooked-cops/

 

[shane13]

Probably the security heard the first shot but didn't know from which house the sound came or maybe it was from outside they might think..
dont know.. Maybe waited for sb's call. they surely should react earlier when they heard the sound....

Good points.

But ultimately the trial will hopefully reveal who heard what and when. (Assuming people, including security, don't change their testimony--which Botha took.)

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

For days I've been thinking abt Reeva's wounds on right side of her body. None of those three shots hit her on her back, front or left side but her right hip, right arm, right side of her head above her ear..Doesn't it seem very telling? Here's my scenario...possib. discussed earlier Pisto
(kidding)

I start to think that she was not shot in the bedroom or downstairs because ...

1. if she was shot downstairs from her head and/ or hip/ arm she couldn't make herself upstairs -hallway- to the bedroom then hallway again to finally the toilet.. She would slow down/fell down and he would catch her..
2. She would prob. be hit from her back..
3. We dont see much blood on the stairs in the leaked photos.
4. And IMO his gun was in his box(whatever it's called) under his bed that night also where he mostly needed at nights as usual .

IMO they were in the bedroom , quarrelling, he got the bat and chased her to the bathroom and hit her on the head just there in the bathroom
where we see lots of blood on the floor.. her phone fell down ..She couldn't make herself to the toilet and prob was unconscious because of the strike.
He thought of his career etc , knew she would tell everything if she survived and he dragged her to the toilet Her shorts got bloodied with the blood on the floor . He made her sit on the far side of the toilet where we see lots of pale blood from her shorts her face turning on the walll and shot her on the right side of her head intending to kill her there.

Then made the phone calls. made up an intruder story but he had to shot her behind the door for that story fit and in 10-17 min next shots came behind the door. But the killing shot to her head was not from behind the door and that bullet didnot have wood/door etc particles on it like the other bullets and maybe its projectory wouldn't match. So that bullet to the head was taken from the scene and later told by the defence that they found a missing bullet to the head in the toilet with brain particles on it but there was no trace of any wood/ door particles anymore because it was in the toilet water.

Meanwhile he did the breaking a few panels as if he used the bat for that and the rest comes...

He also mentioned in the affi that he pulled her to the bathroom , left her there a dying human being and then went downstairs to open the front door to cover lots of gathering blood in the bathrom which is the real crime scene..

:jail:

Reeva Steenkamp's skull crushed during attack, South African police say
Grieving relatives who saw body before cremation described horrific injuries
(I don't trust the later forensic report abt the bat at all )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...end-Reeva-Steenkamp-cricket-bat-shot-her.html

 

[Interested Bystander]

No, you did understand quite well. Thanks

I do not see any scale bar in the photo posted.
Do you have another one that shows the scale bar?
TIA

If you use google Maps and enter Silver Lakes Golf Estate, Pretoria into the search line you will see the Estate. It takes a little while to track down his house and to show you the scale on the screen I have had to zoom out a bit but hopefully you will see the scale bar. I have marked his house and the security gate with yellow. Really it is best to use Google Maps and then you can zoom in as far as is allowed.

 

[Estelle]

For days I've been thinking abt Reeva's wounds on right side of her body. None of those three shots hit her on her back, front or left side but her right hip, right arm, right side of her head above her ear..Doesn't it seem very telling? Here's my scenario...possib. discussed earlier Pisto (kidding)

I start to think that she was not shot in the bedroom or downstairs because ...
1. if she was shot downstairs from her head and/ or hip/ arm she couldn't make herself upstairs -hallway- to the bedroom then hallway again to finally the toilet.. She would slow down/fell down and he would catch her..
2. She would prob. be hit from her back..
3. We dont see much blood on the stairs in the leaked photos.
4. And IMO his gun was in his box(whatever it's called) under his bed that night also where he mostly needed at nights as usual .

Excellent post and I tend to agree with you but I also have some questions for you:

*We do not know where the sofa really was that night. When the media call it a "sofa", I would call it a one-seater armchair. IMO a sofa seats 2 or 3 people like the one they were sitting on when the photos were taken of them with the monkey the week before by OP's neighbour and best friend, the Builder with the ladder. I think we have made certain suppositions based on that blood spray by trying to work out how it got there.

*The assumption has been that she must have been down there at the beginning when the domestic violence began to account for this blood spatter. How do you account for it with your scenario?

*The blood spatter on the walls of the stairs had to be accounted for and it appeared to me that his carrying her body down the stairs did not account for it very well.

*We have assumed that she was not injured seriously enough downstairs and was able to go up the stairs perhaps to get her phone.

*The violence downstairs could have begun with the cricket bat rather then the gun which was probably still upstairs.

*Just because he usually keeps his gun or cricket bat upstairs does not mean he could not have secretly gone up to get it when he was angry with her. He could have gone up to get the bat to threaten her at first then brought it downstairs again and held it up to her as if to hit her, saying that if she did not keep quiet about whatever it was, or do whatever he wanted her to do, he would hit her with it. But she refused and he hit her. So she then ran upstairs to phone the police.

*There had been arguing going on earlier in the night before midnight then reported and someone came to check at about 1pm I think. I imagine no violence had occurred at this stage if they had checked Reeva's welfare then.

*But could neighbours really hear this arguing if it was done downstairs? Maybe only if the front door was open.

*Was Reeva trying to escape so she had opened the front door ready to go. But she was so emotional that she had forgotten that her things were upstairs so she had to go up and get them first.

*Was her car door really left and found open or not? Maybe she got to the car and only remembered her things then.

*Can a woman then climb up the stairs after she has been bashed with a cricket bat?

*Would being bashed with a cricket bat cause the blood spatter found on the sofa?

*I do not really think she was going to stay the night after this argument at midnight but had earlier assumed she would (hence the call/text to the Myers about 10pm) so she had placed her things in the bedroom much earlier before they argued.

*So she gets upstairs somehow to get her things and/or to phone either wounded or about to be.

*OP could have even carried her up the stairs with his prosthetic legs still on if she was badly wounded or unconscious.

*He then locks the bedroom door to either keep her captive or to prevent security guards from entering the bedroom. Maybe the front door was still left open? Or the guards might have had spare sets of his keys to get in unannounced.

*Why did he state that the bedroom door was locked otherwise? I have often wondered the point of this.

*If he was keeping her captive, she would still be conscious.

*If he did not want anyone entering the bedroom, she could have been unconscious. But that would not be true as they argued again from 2-3am if neighbours reports are true. This screaming and arguing was heard because he had left the bathroom as well as the balcony doors open and was too angry to think of closing them.

*So maybe they were in the bedroom for the first lot of arguing eg between about 11pm and 1am then it moved into the bathroom with more arguing between 2 and 3am. Reeva might have moved in there with her phone to make a call and he followed her in there with his gun in his hand to stop her.

*Were the screams heard only before or after the first or second bullet of the first volley of three gunshots (if there were 3)? Then 17 minutes silence. No screams heard after the second volley of gunshots?

*If so, that would be very telling and fit into your theory that Reeva was already dead in the bathroom before he fired the second volley through the door.

*Injuries were to her right side so she might have been facing the vanity unit with her phone in her hand as he approached the bathroom. I think that was on the right side of the bathroom as we face it. He fired the shots to kill.

*I had forgotten to add the initial cricket bat bashing in the bedroom theory to this new scenario.

*Usually conflict escalates when you love (supposedly) someone so I am amazed that there are no defensive wounds on Reeva's body. But maybe there are and we have not been told yet or her injuries hide them. It often starts with arguing, then gets more and more physical with smashing of things too (hence I sort of believe that she might have smashed at least one of his trophies downstairs first) before you get physical with each other.

*Only hit men can unemotionally murder someone with one gunshot so there is usually quite a lead up to murder.

*The reason for their arguments? Who knows? We can only guess. Jealousy? Did they both have opposite sex friends? Or was OP the only one in his opinion allowed to flirt with or see other women? Or did Reeva find out a secret about OP that night that he did not want her to know in case she revealed it to others because it would affect his world-wide reputation?

*Their conflict could have been ongoing for weeks before but Reeva thought she could resolve it with her communication skills. As he was a celebrity, she did not want to tell others about her problems with OP apparently. Little did she know who she was dealing with - a narcissistic sociopath. IMO he definitely has NPD (narcissistic personal disorder). It all began in his childhood. If you want to know more, read all of this about the narcissist's mother:
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq64.html

*But there is more about his past that could be relevant too. Does OP have a fear of abandonment? Having had a father who divorced your mother at age 6yo and a mother who died at age 15/16yo, that can trigger an intense fear of abandonment.

*So what we have here is a man who, because of his narcissism, not only feels entitled to any blonde woman of his choosing, he also would feel very threatened if she chose to abandon him (before he abandoned her) due to (what I see as) his probably having this intense fear of abandonment as virtually both parents abandoned him before he became an adult.

*If, on top of that, Reeva could have found out a secret about him during the days of their courtship, which could have threatened his worldwide popularity, sponsorships and reputation (such as taking steroids but he told her he had a plan so he could get away with it). But he pretended they are "herbal". Did she find out that he had the boxes of herbal ones there too in his drawer and the others were in his safe, for example? Of course the first thing he wanted to remove before the police got there, was these steroids. Perhaps it was not really about his financial records. Had Reeva seen him taking steroids (out of his safe) that night? Did she then decide to smash at least one of his trophies (if true) as she then believed he was a fake when she previously respected him so much?

PS I know that Shane will not agree with this theory but IMO it is plausible and just my opinion. Otherwise why would OP choose to murder someone like Reeva who was the epitomy of love, pretend she was an intruder, risk his career in international athletics and a long jail sentence? There has to be more to it - hence the encrypted phones - perhaps.

 

[shane13]

If you use google Maps and enter Silver Lakes Golf Estate, Pretoria into the search line you will see the Estate. It takes a little while to track down his house and to show you the scale on the screen I have had to zoom out a bit but hopefully you will see the scale bar. I have marked his house and the security gate with yellow. Really it is best to use Google Maps and then you can zoom in as far as is allowed.

OK. Thanks.
I presume you used that GolF estate to get the scale, as he lives in SIlver Woods Estate and that Golf Estate is different.
Is the entrance near what the map says is that photography place?

If so,then the distance appears to be 200-300 meters.

I aksed because I believe that at least one of the witnesses is one or more security people. At BH, what Botha first said was 600 meters, and changed to 300 meters, may be security gate people. IMO.

Again I asked why they did not go to OP's house.

Now it was answered that they could not know where the shot came from.

But months ago, I posted a link-- first online from BEELD-- that security people were at his house, due to all the screaming, a couple of hours before the shooting.
So it would have been a good assumption to call or head out there immediately at the sound of a shot.

So again it gets curiouser and curiouser...

 

[Estelle]

so·fa
/ˈsōfə/
Noun
A long upholstered seat with a back and arms, for two or more people.
Synonyms
couch - settee - divan - ottoman

So IMO that armchair that others have called a "sofa" is not the sofa we are looking for or it is and it has been misnamed by the media. But the armchair was where the blood spatters were. Right? Wouldn't this have usually been in his lounge room? Was it moved? I am confused.

 

[Interested Bystander]

OK. Thanks.
I presume you used that GolF estate to get the scale, as he lives in SIlver Woods Estate and that Golf Estate is different.
Is the entrance near what the map says is that photography place?

If so,then the distance appears to be 200-300 meters.

I aksed because I believe that at least one of the witnesses is one or more security people. At BH, what Botha first said was 600 meters, and changed to 300 meters, may be security gate people. IMO.

No, I took the reference from the Guardian that he lived in the Silver Lakes Estate. You will see from anothe rmap I have uploaded that after searching for Silver Wood his house shows in exactly the same way. I did not add the scale it was on the screenshot.

Again I asked why they did not go to OP's house.

Now it was answered that they could not know where the shot came from.

But months ago, I posted a link-- first online from BEELD-- that security people were at his house, due to all the screaming, a couple of hours before the shooting.
So it would have been a good assumption to call or head out there immediately at the sound of a shot.

So again it gets curiouser and curiouser...

No, I took the reference from The Guardian Newspaper that he lived in the Silver Lakes Estate. There is obvious ambiguity here but you will see from another map I have uploaded that after searching for Silver Wood his house shows in exactly the same area. I did not add the scale it was on the screenshot.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/14/pistorius-home-estate-most-secure-south-africa

I am sure someone heard something. At that time of night and in what I imagine is a normally quiet neighbourhood shots would ring out quite loudly. He has said that when he cannot sleep he goes to a firing range. Does anyone know where that is? If it is close by, could it be that the guards may have heard some shots and assumed it was from the firing range? That is a random guess though.

 

[LaurieAClaase]

A - Blood stains on the sofa

1. The photos show no sofa under the part of the stairs without wall. So where the sofa was located if there were blood stains on it?

Sofa's place seem changed...Where was it that day ? Was it another cover up ?

View attachment 35295

View attachment 35296

There was a sofa in the bedroom.

Hilton Botha: 'If you enter the bedroom and turn left you see a king size bed, and bookcases to the left of the bed, together with a couch.'

On 17 February, City Press quoted ‘three sources close to the high-profile investigation’ - ‘The suspicion is that the first shot, in the bedroom, hit her in the hip. She then ran and locked herself in the toilet. She was doubled over because of the pain. He fired three more shots. She probably covered her head, which is why the bullet also went through her hand.’
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exclusive-full-the-case-against-oscar/

In an interview broadcast by Britain’s Channel 5 on 3 June, Reeva’s mother June echoed the scenario painted by City Press. ‘She must have been so afraid in that toilet. Someone’s firing shots through the door. How terrified. Already one bullet had hit her so she must have been in severe pain also.’

 

[Pisto_lius]

For days I've been thinking abt Reeva's wounds on right side of her body. None of those three shots hit her on her back, front or left side but her right hip, right arm, right side of her head above her ear..Doesn't it seem very telling? Here's my scenario...possib. discussed earlier Pisto
(kidding)

I start to think that she was not shot in the bedroom or downstairs because ...

BIB - 1. if she was shot downstairs from her head and/ or hip/ arm she couldn't make herself upstairs -hallway- to the bedroom then hallway again to finally the toilet.. She would slow down/fell down and he would catch her..
2. She would prob. be hit from her back..
3. We dont see much blood on the stairs in the leaked photos.
4. And IMO his gun was in his box(whatever it's called) under his bed that night also where he mostly needed at nights as usual .

IMO they were in the bedroom , quarrelling, he got the bat and chased her to the bathroom and hit her on the head just there in the bathroom
where we see lots of blood on the floor.. her phone fell down ..She couldn't make herself to the toilet and prob was unconscious because of the strike.
He thought of his career etc , knew she would tell everything if she survived and he dragged her to the toilet Her shorts got bloodied with the blood on the floor . He made her sit on the far side of the toilet where we see lots of pale blood from her shorts her face turning on the walll and shot her on the right side of her head intending to kill her there.

Then made the phone calls. made up an intruder story but he had to shot her behind the door for that story fit and in 10-17 min next shots came behind the door. But the killing shot to her head was not from behind the door and that bullet didnot have wood/door etc particles on it like the other bullets and maybe its projectory wouldn't match. So that bullet to the head was taken from the scene and later told by the defence that they found a missing bullet to the head in the toilet with brain particles on it but there was no trace of any wood/ door particles anymore because it was in the toilet water.

Meanwhile he did the breaking a few panels as if he used the bat for that and the rest comes...

He also mentioned in the affi that he pulled her to the bathroom , left her there a dying human being and then went downstairs to open the front door to cover lots of gathering blood in the bathrom which is the real crime scene..

:jail:

Reeva Steenkamp's skull crushed during attack, South African police say
Grieving relatives who saw body before cremation described horrific injuries
(I don't trust the later forensic report abt the bat at all )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...end-Reeva-Steenkamp-cricket-bat-shot-her.html

@ all - I love the very interesting theories/discussions of what might have happened


And let me say first:

I don't trust the reports about "a missing bullet with brain particles and blood in the toilet" on it at all.

1. There is water inside the toilet bowl so, brain particle and blood wouldn't stick to the bullet for hours (till they found and retrieved this bullet)

2. If there were brain particles on the bullet this would mean this shot must have been a penetrating gunshot wound. But Botha said in the bail hearing:

Botha: I was present during [the] post-mortem. Three entrance wounds: right side of head (ear), right elbow (broke arm), hip.

BIB

if she was shot downstairs from her head and/ or hip/ arm she couldn't make herself upstairs -hallway- to the bedroom then hallway again to finally the toilet.. She would slow down/fell down and he would catch her..

Concerning this you (and a good many others ) forget an important factor - called adrenaline.

Epinephrine is also known as adrenaline.

What role does epinephrine play in the body?
Epinephrine is involved in the fight or flight response in humans.

The fight or flight response occurs when a person is subject to a threat. This causes a signalling process to occur, which causes the body to react to the potential danger.

Specifically, once a threat is perceived, a signal is sent to the brain. The brain then sends nerve impulses to the adrenal gland in the kidneys.

When the nerve signal reaches the adrenal gland, chromaffin cells, in the medulla of the adrenal gland, release epinephrine.

Epinephrine then enters the bloodstream. It is thus carried around the body to cells in various locations, where it initiates several responses.

Despite initiating several different responses, epinephrine's effects have a collective purpose – to provide energy so that the major muscles of the body can respond to the perceived threat.

Epinephrine and the heart
Epinephrine binds to beta-adrenergic receptors on heart muscle cells. This causes the contraction rate of the heart to increase. This ultimately leads to increased blood supply to the tissues in the body.

[This refutes the theory made by shane13 (sorry, shane13) “the heart could have been beating very arrhythmically (eg VFib) and weakly due to the brain trauma and so the weak heart could be the reason for little blood in certain areas.”]
http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Epinephrine-(Adrenaline).aspx

And in my next post I will give you some examples for what is possible if people were wounded

 

[Pisto_lius]

Can You Be Stabbed With a Knife and Not Know it?
http://www.lowtechcombat.com/2010/02/can-you-be-stabbed-with-knife-and-not.html

Gabrielle Giffords Defies Medical Odds After Gunshot to Brain
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/News/g...g-gunshot-head/story?id=12573502#.UdKbuTu-2So

Survival time and acting capability after wounding
A suprising amount of activity is often reported following infliction of an obviously lethal injury. Many remarkable examples in the literature. Levy & Rao suggest that overall, 71% of stab wound victims and 49% of gunshot victims survive at least 5 minutes. The victim may not be aware of the injury initially. Pain is suppressed by the adrenaline response of "fight or flight" and vigorous activity may be maintained for a period of up to a few minutes when the will exists. Such activity will cease when physical factors such as blood loss lead to immobility, loss of consciousness or death.

Main effects of injury are bleeding and shock. Will ultimately incapacitate the victim. The time taken to do so, and what actions are still possible is very difficult to estimate. Activity varies from staggering a few paces to running considerable distances or up flights of stairs. Estimation of survival period is almost impossible. Numerous variables exist. Fit young adult will survive longer and be capable of greater activity than an elderly, infirm individual. Extensive destruction of the frontal cerebral lobes of the brain may permit survival and activity before death occurs from associated brain damage and shock.

The victim may remain alive for several hours with internal blood loss in excess of 2 litres.
Consciousness may be maintained despite internal blood loss of 1.5 litres.
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/woundsdws.pdf

Transabdominal gunshot wounds of the hip and pelvis.
Transabdominal gunshot wounds (GSWs) of the hip and pelvis are those that traverse the gastrointestinal system before entering the pelvis and/or hip. These injuries may be contaminated by bowel contents. Some require urgent surgical intervention; others can be managed nonsurgically.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23637147

We don't know

a) where exactly the bullets hit Reeva
b) the angle the bullets hit her body
c) the chronological order of the shots (first, second, last)

but all that is crucial for her activities following her injuries.

In the first shooting today, a 24-year-old man walked into the Englewood district police station on 63rd Street after someone shot him in the hip, police said.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...nshot-wound-police-station-critical-condition

Police say a 19-year-old man suffered gunshot wounds in the hip and leg Monday evening in Newport News. Thurston said witnesses saw a man running to 36th Street, with gunshot wounds.
http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/crime/nn-shooting-33rd-street

 

[Pisto_lius]

So IMO that armchair that others have called a "sofa" is not the sofa we are looking for or it is and it has been misnamed by the media. But the armchair was where the blood spatters were. Right? Wouldn't this have usually been in his lounge room? Was it moved? I am confused.

I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


1. A sofa located under the stairs sometimes before the shooting




2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




3. Also from the leaked crime scene photos = Sky News (who leaked all the photos) reported this sofa was located under the stairs



It looks like the sofa in photo 1 - doesn't it? But where it is in photo 2 if they reported it was located under the stairs? And how could there be blood spatter on the sofa if it wasn't located under the stairs?

I am confused, too

 

[Pisto_lius]

Excellent post and I tend to agree with you but I also have some questions for you:

*We do not know where the sofa really was that night. When the media call it a "sofa", I would call it a one-seater armchair. IMO a sofa seats 2 or 3 people like the one they were sitting on when the photos were taken of them with the monkey the week before by OP's neighbour and best friend, the Builder with the ladder. I think we have made certain suppositions based on that blood spray by trying to work out how it got there.

*The assumption has been that she must have been down there at the beginning when the domestic violence began to account for this blood spatter. How do you account for it with your scenario?

*The blood spatter on the walls of the stairs had to be accounted for and it appeared to me that his carrying her body down the stairs did not account for it very well.

*We have assumed that she was not injured seriously enough downstairs and was able to go up the stairs perhaps to get her phone.

*The violence downstairs could have begun with the cricket bat rather then the gun which was probably still upstairs.

*Just because he usually keeps his gun or cricket bat upstairs does not mean he could not have secretly gone up to get it when he was angry with her. He could have gone up to get the bat to threaten her at first then brought it downstairs again and held it up to her as if to hit her, saying that if she did not keep quiet about whatever it was, or do whatever he wanted her to do, he would hit her with it. But she refused and he hit her. So she then ran upstairs to phone the police.

*There had been arguing going on earlier in the night before midnight then reported and someone came to check at about 1pm I think. I imagine no violence had occurred at this stage if they had checked Reeva's welfare then.

*But could neighbours really hear this arguing if it was done downstairs? Maybe only if the front door was open.

*Was Reeva trying to escape so she had opened the front door ready to go. But she was so emotional that she had forgotten that her things were upstairs so she had to go up and get them first.

*Was her car door really left and found open or not? Maybe she got to the car and only remembered her things then.

*Can a woman then climb up the stairs after she has been bashed with a cricket bat?

*Would being bashed with a cricket bat cause the blood spatter found on the sofa?

*I do not really think she was going to stay the night after this argument at midnight but had earlier assumed she would (hence the call/text to the Myers about 10pm) so she had placed her things in the bedroom much earlier before they argued.

*So she gets upstairs somehow to get her things and/or to phone either wounded or about to be.

*OP could have even carried her up the stairs with his prosthetic legs still on if she was badly wounded or unconscious.

*He then locks the bedroom door to either keep her captive or to prevent security guards from entering the bedroom. Maybe the front door was still left open? Or the guards might have had spare sets of his keys to get in unannounced.

*Why did he state that the bedroom door was locked otherwise? I have often wondered the point of this.

*If he was keeping her captive, she would still be conscious.

*If he did not want anyone entering the bedroom, she could have been unconscious. But that would not be true as they argued again from 2-3am if neighbours reports are true. This screaming and arguing was heard because he had left the bathroom as well as the balcony doors open and was too angry to think of closing them.

*So maybe they were in the bedroom for the first lot of arguing eg between about 11pm and 1am then it moved into the bathroom with more arguing between 2 and 3am. Reeva might have moved in there with her phone to make a call and he followed her in there with his gun in his hand to stop her.

*Were the screams heard only before or after the first or second bullet of the first volley of three gunshots (if there were 3)? Then 17 minutes silence. No screams heard after the second volley of gunshots?

*If so, that would be very telling and fit into your theory that Reeva was already dead in the bathroom before he fired the second volley through the door.

*Injuries were to her right side so she might have been facing the vanity unit with her phone in her hand as he approached the bathroom. I think that was on the right side of the bathroom as we face it. He fired the shots to kill.

*I had forgotten to add the initial cricket bat bashing in the bedroom theory to this new scenario.

*Usually conflict escalates when you love (supposedly) someone so I am amazed that there are no defensive wounds on Reeva's body. But maybe there are and we have not been told yet or her injuries hide them. It often starts with arguing, then gets more and more physical with smashing of things too (hence I sort of believe that she might have smashed at least one of his trophies downstairs first) before you get physical with each other.

*Only hit men can unemotionally murder someone with one gunshot so there is usually quite a lead up to murder.

*The reason for their arguments? Who knows? We can only guess. Jealousy? Did they both have opposite sex friends? Or was OP the only one in his opinion allowed to flirt with or see other women? Or did Reeva find out a secret about OP that night that he did not want her to know in case she revealed it to others because it would affect his world-wide reputation?

*Their conflict could have been ongoing for weeks before but Reeva thought she could resolve it with her communication skills. As he was a celebrity, she did not want to tell others about her problems with OP apparently. Little did she know who she was dealing with - a narcissistic sociopath. IMO he definitely has NPD (narcissistic personal disorder). It all began in his childhood. If you want to know more, read all of this about the narcissist's mother:
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq64.html

*But there is more about his past that could be relevant too. Does OP have a fear of abandonment? Having had a father who divorced your mother at age 6yo and a mother who died at age 15/16yo, that can trigger an intense fear of abandonment.

*So what we have here is a man who, because of his narcissism, not only feels entitled to any blonde woman of his choosing, he also would feel very threatened if she chose to abandon him (before he abandoned her) due to (what I see as) his probably having this intense fear of abandonment as virtually both parents abandoned him before he became an adult.

*If, on top of that, Reeva could have found out a secret about him during the days of their courtship, which could have threatened his worldwide popularity, sponsorships and reputation (such as taking steroids but he told her he had a plan so he could get away with it). But he pretended they are "herbal". Did she find out that he had the boxes of herbal ones there too in his drawer and the others were in his safe, for example? Of course the first thing he wanted to remove before the police got there, was these steroids. Perhaps it was not really about his financial records. Had Reeva seen him taking steroids (out of his safe) that night? Did she then decide to smash at least one of his trophies (if true) as she then believed he was a fake when she previously respected him so much?

PS I know that Shane will not agree with this theory but IMO it is plausible and just my opinion. Otherwise why would OP choose to murder someone like Reeva who was the epitomy of love, pretend she was an intruder, risk his career in international athletics and a long jail sentence? There has to be more to it - hence the encrypted phones - perhaps.

TXL, Estelle, for this also excellent post with your lots of very interesting and good theories

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Excellent post and I tend to agree with you but I also have some questions for you:

*We do not know where the sofa really was that night. When the media call it a "sofa", I would call it a one-seater armchair. IMO a sofa seats 2 or 3 people like the one they were sitting on when the photos were taken of them with the monkey the week before by OP's neighbour and best friend, the Builder with the ladder. I think we have made certain suppositions based on that blood spray by trying to work out how it got there.

*The assumption has been that she must have been down there at the beginning when the domestic violence began to account for this blood spatter. How do you account for it with your scenario?

*The blood spatter on the walls of the stairs had to be accounted for and it appeared to me that his carrying her body down the stairs did not account for it very well.

*We have assumed that she was not injured seriously enough downstairs and was able to go up the stairs perhaps to get her phone.

*The violence downstairs could have begun with the cricket bat rather then the gun which was probably still upstairs.

*Just because he usually keeps his gun or cricket bat upstairs does not mean he could not have secretly gone up to get it when he was angry with her. He could have gone up to get the bat to threaten her at first then brought it downstairs again and held it up to her as if to hit her, saying that if she did not keep quiet about whatever it was, or do whatever he wanted her to do, he would hit her with it. But she refused and he hit her. So she then ran upstairs to phone the police.

*There had been arguing going on earlier in the night before midnight then reported and someone came to check at about 1pm I think. I imagine no violence had occurred at this stage if they had checked Reeva's welfare then.

*But could neighbours really hear this arguing if it was done downstairs? Maybe only if the front door was open.

*Was Reeva trying to escape so she had opened the front door ready to go. But she was so emotional that she had forgotten that her things were upstairs so she had to go up and get them first.

*Was her car door really left and found open or not? Maybe she got to the car and only remembered her things then.

*Can a woman then climb up the stairs after she has been bashed with a cricket bat?

*Would being bashed with a cricket bat cause the blood spatter found on the sofa?

*I do not really think she was going to stay the night after this argument at midnight but had earlier assumed she would (hence the call/text to the Myers about 10pm) so she had placed her things in the bedroom much earlier before they argued.

*So she gets upstairs somehow to get her things and/or to phone either wounded or about to be.

*OP could have even carried her up the stairs with his prosthetic legs still on if she was badly wounded or unconscious.

*He then locks the bedroom door to either keep her captive or to prevent security guards from entering the bedroom. Maybe the front door was still left open? Or the guards might have had spare sets of his keys to get in unannounced.

*Why did he state that the bedroom door was locked otherwise? I have often wondered the point of this.

*If he was keeping her captive, she would still be conscious.

*If he did not want anyone entering the bedroom, she could have been unconscious. But that would not be true as they argued again from 2-3am if neighbours reports are true. This screaming and arguing was heard because he had left the bathroom as well as the balcony doors open and was too angry to think of closing them.

*So maybe they were in the bedroom for the first lot of arguing eg between about 11pm and 1am then it moved into the bathroom with more arguing between 2 and 3am. Reeva might have moved in there with her phone to make a call and he followed her in there with his gun in his hand to stop her.

*Were the screams heard only before or after the first or second bullet of the first volley of three gunshots (if there were 3)? Then 17 minutes silence. No screams heard after the second volley of gunshots?

*If so, that would be very telling and fit into your theory that Reeva was already dead in the bathroom before he fired the second volley through the door.

*Injuries were to her right side so she might have been facing the vanity unit with her phone in her hand as he approached the bathroom. I think that was on the right side of the bathroom as we face it. He fired the shots to kill.

*I had forgotten to add the initial cricket bat bashing in the bedroom theory to this new scenario.

*Usually conflict escalates when you love (supposedly) someone so I am amazed that there are no defensive wounds on Reeva's body. But maybe there are and we have not been told yet or her injuries hide them. It often starts with arguing, then gets more and more physical with smashing of things too (hence I sort of believe that she might have smashed at least one of his trophies downstairs first) before you get physical with each other.

*Only hit men can unemotionally murder someone with one gunshot so there is usually quite a lead up to murder.

*The reason for their arguments? Who knows? We can only guess. Jealousy? Did they both have opposite sex friends? Or was OP the only one in his opinion allowed to flirt with or see other women? Or did Reeva find out a secret about OP that night that he did not want her to know in case she revealed it to others because it would affect his world-wide reputation?

*Their conflict could have been ongoing for weeks before but Reeva thought she could resolve it with her communication skills. As he was a celebrity, she did not want to tell others about her problems with OP apparently. Little did she know who she was dealing with - a narcissistic sociopath. IMO he definitely has NPD (narcissistic personal disorder). It all began in his childhood. If you want to know more, read all of this about the narcissist's mother:
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq64.html

*But there is more about his past that could be relevant too. Does OP have a fear of abandonment? Having had a father who divorced your mother at age 6yo and a mother who died at age 15/16yo, that can trigger an intense fear of abandonment.

*So what we have here is a man who, because of his narcissism, not only feels entitled to any blonde woman of his choosing, he also would feel very threatened if she chose to abandon him (before he abandoned her) due to (what I see as) his probably having this intense fear of abandonment as virtually both parents abandoned him before he became an adult.

*If, on top of that, Reeva could have found out a secret about him during the days of their courtship, which could have threatened his worldwide popularity, sponsorships and reputation (such as taking steroids but he told her he had a plan so he could get away with it). But he pretended they are "herbal". Did she find out that he had the boxes of herbal ones there too in his drawer and the others were in his safe, for example? Of course the first thing he wanted to remove before the police got there, was these steroids. Perhaps it was not really about his financial records. Had Reeva seen him taking steroids (out of his safe) that night? Did she then decide to smash at least one of his trophies (if true) as she then believed he was a fake when she previously respected him so much?

PS I know that Shane will not agree with this theory but IMO it is plausible and just my opinion. Otherwise why would OP choose to murder someone like Reeva who was the epitomy of love, pretend she was an intruder, risk his career in international athletics and a long jail sentence? There has to be more to it - hence the encrypted phones - perhaps.

Estelle , thanks to you for yr well thought and suggestive post also

*Right . Blood splatter on the sofa ? is a big question depending on where it was and have no idea how those splatters got there. I'm not an expert on that but those splatters are not somewhat linear drops . I mean it rather seems to me that they occurred because of kind of shot/hit not some falling drops from hair.. not sure..

*As for blood splatters on the wall and the open front door ...

I'm assuming that splatters on the wall might have occurred while he was carrying her downstairs.. He had opened the front door before and the Estate Manager and neighbor happened to arrive in very same moment while he was on those stairs and I think that he was somehow shaking her ,calling her Reeva dont..maybe crying and posing to save her life..as the securites rushed in. and those splatters might have occurred because of his such movements..

*If her car door was really open,then its obvious that violence started downstairs and she tried to run away.....But I rather think the police or Botha opened her car and checked in and left the door open and someone among that crowd invented that the door was open when she was killed.

*I'm sure he has a very very good reason for mentioning that bedroom door locked but have got no exact idea :banghead:

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I saved these photos of the "sofa-story"


1. A sofa located under the stairs sometimes before the shooting




2. From the leaked crime scene photos = looks like the same stairs but NO sofa located under the stairs




3. Also from the leaked crime scene photos = Sky News (who leaked all the photos) reported this sofa was located under the stairs



It looks like the sofa in photo 1 - doesn't it? But where it is in photo 2 if they reported it was located under the stairs? And how could there be blood spatter on the sofa if it wasn't located under the stairs?

I am confused, too

This sofa reminded me of neighbor's ladder..Where was the ladder that night ? was it under the bathroom window? who left it there ?:fence:

To me , the sofa in yr 1st photo and 3rd doesn't look like each other much .. Aren't they different models ? I think the 3rd photo looks more like the one with the monkey on it as Estelle mentioned..Just an opinion..