General Discussion Thread No. 18

[emery]

There seem to be inconsistencies in their testimonies and that's why they are being re-interviewed. Sounds like someone is lying.

There are often inconsistencies in eye witness stories -- I would argue more often than not. That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is lying. People can be, and often are, mistaken about things, particularly when things happened and what precisely they saw. Innocent bystanders of crimes often describe the perpetrator or the sequence of events that transpired differently, for instance. The same is true for police officers when testifying about how they conducted an arrest, a search or an undercover operation. In fact, I not too infrequently see prosecutors argue to juries during closing arguments that the inconsistencies in their witnesses' stories is a sign of their reliability because if they were all precisely consistent, it would be an indication that their stories were rehearsed and/or fabricated.

 

[emery]

If only to help themselves in their investigation, they should have tape recorded their interviews with all witnesses. The PJ has admitted in print that this was not done. But it seems SO basic!

I agree that this is best practices, but you would be surprised how many police departments in the US don't follow this procedure either.

It's not uncommon for police department policy to be that the witness/suspect is interviewed and then either the witness or the investigator prepares a written statement summarizing the substance of the interview, which the witness then signs. This is not good practice for many reasons, not least of which is that the investigator leaves himself or herself open to accusations of coercion or failure to issue a Miranda warning and, if the accusation is believed, having the statement surpressed at trial.

 

[colomom]

http://tinyurl.com/2wf7dk

Madeleine: Changes in evidence from Tapas Nine could 'dramatically change investigation'

The pair who alledgedly want to "correct" their version of events were named tonight in a Portuguese newspaper as Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner.

(more at link)

 

[Tuba]

That's what "This is London", allied to The Evening Standard, is saying also. And that the changes have to do with how much was consumed in wine on 3 May and in regards to the checking Tanner & O'Brien did on the children. He is under a cloud because of the sheets, which maids say exhibited no vomit or staining and were not changed by any request. It was Russell O'Brien who said a month ago that Gerry wanted to control what was given to the press, so he would refrain from comment.

 

[Tuba]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/08/nmaddy208.xml

The Portuguese t.v. station RTP is apparently the source of the "14 text messages in one minute before 10:00" rumour but according to this report in the Telegraph and other dailies, the messages were sent over the period that Gerry McCann was at dinner, not in a rush before the alarm was given. The messages may have had to do with the plan to return to England the next day, the original plan before the discovery Madeleine was missing. If Madeleine was kidnapped, I believe the perpetrators knew from a tip that time was running out and that the family would be gone on 4 May.

 

[gord]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/08/nmaddy208.xml

The Portuguese t.v. station RTP is apparently the source of the "14 text messages in one minute before 10:00" rumour but according to this report in the Telegraph and other dailies, the messages were sent over the period that Gerry McCann was at dinner, not in a rush before the alarm was given. The messages may have had to do with the plan to return to England the next day, the original plan before the discovery Madeleine was missing. If Madeleine was kidnapped, I believe the perpetrators knew from a tip that time was running out and that the family would be gone on 4 May.

This I can understand - Texting is now a common way of communication here in the UK - especially when abroad when calls are expensive I can quite imagine Gerry sending texts over dinner - 14 is a lot though - It could have been with his parents , work related anything

I cant imagine anyone though texting after the alarm wa raised - your hands would be shaking too much and you would just call and get the info over - If gerry sent texts in the immediate time scale after the alarm was raised - I would look carefully at who these were sent to

 

[Tuba]

Gord, did you read message #57 on Anything New? That's where you will see the waiters' statements about the arrival of the McCanns. Also, I did reply to your q. about that over at that same thread (after I discussed again the text messages).

 

[Barnaby]

http://tinyurl.com/2wf7dk

Madeleine: Changes in evidence from Tapas Nine could 'dramatically change investigation'

The pair who alledgedly want to "correct" their version of events were named tonight in a Portuguese newspaper as Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner.

(more at link)

If it is these two I don't believe that they are merely clarifying how much wine was consumed, that is way too trivial!

 

[Zelda]

what must be frustrating to every one is that we are 7 months down the line - nothing has happened and the PJ have not even cleared up these inconsistencies ( whatever they might be )

I just cant understand why the original PJ didnt nail down everyones story the first time round - get a reconstruction done - get everyones alibi checked there and then - it is basic police work - start from the inside out - clarify what you do know - check and double check and then move on .

More and more it looks like the Natalee Holloway case. Missing girl in foreign place, original investigation botched, police have suspects but not enough evidence to charge suspect(s).

Both are sad stories. I doubt if the LE will ever solve the case.

 

[Tuba]

If the two witnesses, who seem to be Tanner & O'Brien, amplify and adjust their previous statements to police, Paulo Rebelo will be gratified. He believes the key to the mystery of this case is in the inconsistencies in the witness accounts. He says they are crucial to solving the disappearance. After the reenactment at the end of last month, he seems to conclude that it is not just one person who is responsible for whatever happened.

 

[Texana]

I don't think they were clarifying only the wine consumed, but that might have been one of the questions asked/intended to ask.

The whole deal with O'Brien is puzzling. Why does a doctor leave a vomiting child? A sick child, yes. But a child who just vomited? Sure, you know as a parent that once they've thrown it all up they probably won't do it again. But you don't know that for sure, and sometimes a severe stomach virus or food poisoning can keep causing the stomach contractions. Miserable!

As well, dehydration would have been a concern for any child that sick. Of course, O'Brien would have known what to look for and assure himself the child wasn't dehydrated at that time.

But leaving the child? It just has never made the slightest bit of sense to me.

The only thing that DID make sense was perhaps if O'Brien gave the child something like Phenergan that knocks out nausea but induces sleep like magic.

When you add to the mix of curious and curiouser the fact that no staff member recalls changing sheets or getting fresh ones...

The whole thing is just odd.

 

[Tuba]

I am reading in newspaper comments that O'Brien pointed the finger at Murat in May, claiming he had been peering into the apartment. I don't remember that myself but Murat in the streets on 3 May (or not) never held great interest for me. As I've posted before, I do think that he would not have been highly visible if he was housing a body that night.

 

[Texana]

I am reading in newspaper comments that O'Brien pointed the finger at Murat in May, claiming he had been peering into the apartment. I don't remember that myself but Murat in the streets on 3 May (or not) never held great interest for me. As I've posted before, I do think that he would not have been highly visible if he was housing a body that night.

Agreed. I think he would have made sure he had a strong alibi for most of the evening--as much as possible--to raise the possibility of doubt. Why be seen and raise the possibilty of a search?

 

[Barnaby]

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=25945

---------------

Parte 1

mms://195.245.168.21//rtpfiles/videos/auto/especiais/maddie_1_02112007.wmv

Parte 2

mms://195.245.168.21//rtpfiles/videos/auto/especiais/maddie_2_02112007.wmv

------------

Now, just to whet the appetite of our English speaking friends, here's a first couple of selected clips with no need (or only minimal) need of translation:

------------

"They've taken her" - Intro to "Anatomia de um Mistério"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsuGxO7PB8w

------------

"No comment on Murat" - extended version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRpKThIO5HA

-------------

Cadaver dogs in action at Apt. 5A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXUW45Lm1EY

-----------

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...dramatically+change+investigation'/article.do

Here is an interesting comment buried in the above newspaper article:

Kate and Gerry McCann could sue the Portuguese police for £1million for failing to find their daughter, it was claimed.

Have you ever heard of parents suing a police department for not locating a missing child?

 

[Barnaby]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...dramatically+change+investigation'/article.do

Here is an interesting comment buried in the above newspaper article:



Have you ever heard of parents suing a police department for not locating a missing child?

If they sue everyone they have threatened to sue ............................ LOL they will either end up very wealthy (which they are bound to anyway with book & film deals) or tied up in litigation for the rest of their lives!

 

[Barnaby]

OMG! Now we have a completely new story - Kate did not run back to the Tapas Bar she shouted from the apartment balcony! Mama Mia! When is anyone going to tell the truth here????

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=25963

PJ after the telephones of the Mccann's and friends

PAULA MARTINHEIRA and JOSÉ MANUEL OLIVEIRA
The father of Madeleine McCann sent and received 14 text messages (sms) on his phone shortly before his daughter diasappeared, on the night of May 3, while dinning with his wife, Kate, and the seven friends who spent holidays with the couple in Praia da Luz, in the Tapas restaurant, which belongs to The Ocean Club.

This is the new runway followed by the Judicial Police (PJ), which is awaiting the submission by the British authorities, of the records of all calls made and received by Mccann's mobile phones and their friends since they arrived to Praia da Luz.

Another challenge for the new team of PJ led by chief inspector Paulo Rebelo are the contradictions based on the testimonies made by both Gerry and Kate and their friends and the staff of the resort, which are again being heard. The DN knows that at least three employees (a receptionist and two employees of the restaurant table Tapas) were heard, again, last week. One of the aspects that will be given special attention by the PJ is the employee of the restaurant, Portuguese, which was the first person to reach Kate, when she noticed the disappearance of her daughter.

Unlike what has been reported, Kate gave the warning from the balcony of the apartment where slept Maddie with her twin brothers Sean and Amélie, and not in the restaurant. "She was in panic and cried," they've taken her, they've taken her,they took our girl, " told that employee to his colleagues, saying that facing the distress of , Maddie's mother," her husband and friends went to see the that was happening. "Only later, Kate have returned to the restaurant, at a time when everybody was already searching for the child.

Moreover, the DN knows that the employee of the reception was questioned by the inspectors to try to remember if someone had passed on the street at the time of Maddie's disappearance.The reception of The Ocean Club is a short walk from the public roads and who circulated towards the south would have to pass along that service.

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/11/09/s.....migos.html

 

[philamena]

PAULA MARTINHEIRA and JOSÉ MANUEL OLIVEIRA
The father of Madeleine McCann sent and received 14 text messages (sms) on his phone shortly before his daughter.....

If that's true don't you think that at least one of the other 8 people would have asked him who he was texting? It takes more than a few seconds to send and recieve 14 messages.

 

[philamena]

From Barnaby's last posted article:

Unlike what has been reported, Kate gave the warning from the balcony of the apartment where slept Maddie with her twin brothers Sean and Amélie, .....

Someone needs to find the very first article printed about the moment Kate discovered Maddie was missing and compare it to this. I'd say the initial report was the truth.

 

[Salem]

Please keep in mind that it is entirely possible the McCanns managed to hire a PR firm in Portugal to shine up their tarnished reputation.

At this point in time, I think it is wise to be very skeptical of new reports that appear to contradict the early reports. Especially those early reports, that were basically the same, except for minor inconsistencies.

Just my two cents

Salem