General Discussion Thread No. 18

[april4sky]

I don't believe the McCanns or their friends were capable of murdering that child, either. Murder is a premeditated action with deliberate intent.

I do believe that they were capable of a mistake in judgment, and I don't understand why that is hard to believe.

They admit freely they left their child alone, and as much as is possible for them, admit that was a mistake. (As Kate said, "our mistake, if you can call it that.")

They made one decision which obviously could have resulted in an unseen consequence. They might easily have made another poor judgment/decision, which, just like the first one (to leave the children alone every night) might have seemed perfectly rational and reasonable to them at the time.

I don't think it has anything to do with whether Kate has cried in public or not, since that is not necessarily a sign of innocence or guilt. I think it has much more to do with the way the McCanns make decisions.

Intelligent, articulate people do not always make the best decisions.

Texana If you are comparing one bad decision...leaving their children alone.
With what you call another bad decision/mistake in judgement...getting rid of the body of your precious child by treating her like a piece of garbage.
A child you desperately wanted and went through invitro to get.
Your right I do find it difficult to understand...Unbelievable in fact.

To me that would be almost as evil as killing your child.
Thats far far removed from leaving their children alone.
One is a bad decision...the other is evil.
And I don't believe they are evil.
You would have to be pretty sick/evil to think doing that could ever be "perfectly rational or reasonable".

And then have your friends agree to help you in this charade. Sorry, I don't see it.

There is nothing that has come out about the McCanns past, or of their friends that show them as anything but hard working decent people.

 

[april4sky]

Agreed. A person can have a high IQ and be very intelligent, but that doesn't mean he's blessed with common sense.

This is getting to be a habit. I agree with you CaliKid.

 

[Texana]

The only way I see the McCanns making a decision to cover up the death of one child would be if they saw it as necessary to keep the other children. If they did not trust the local authorities (and this should be very understandable) to believe it was an accidental death, if they had experience in the past with undeserved medical malpractice suits, if they had a split second to make a decision as to how to handle a tragic accident in a foreign country, yes, I believe they could make a decision we might find incomprehensible.

I think that if they did this, it was Gerry's decision and Kate agreed from fear of losing her other children.

They had already lost one child and so they could only do what they felt necessary to save the other two.

 

[SleuthMom]

April:

A child you desperately wanted and went through invitro to get.
Your right I do find it difficult to understand...Unbelievable in fact.

I would have agree with you some years ago but reading at the news daily, I see it differentely.How many news we have heard of foster and adoptive parents committing atrocities towards the same kids "they always wanted"? I am surprised at the amount of cases like that. Really, personally the fact they went through invitro does not mean anything anymore in this evil world we all live in.

 

[gord]

April:



I would have agree with you some years ago but reading at the news daily, I see it differentely.How many news we have heard of foster and adoptive parents committing atrocities towards the same kids "they always wanted"? I am surprised at the amount of cases like that. Really, personally the fact they went through invitro does not mean anything anymore in this evil world we all live in.

I agree that we live in a very strange world and- anything could and sometimes happens

But this is the whole thing I struggle with - If it was a horrible accident and a spur of the moment thing - the timings just seem so fine as to what / where / when they could have hidden Madleine disposed of the body and got everyone who was involved on side - I just cant see how they pulled it off without leaving some clue , some mistake somewhere - and kept the whole case in the glare of the media for the past 6 months .

They are not stupid people - they would know the risk that they would take in hiding a body - their daughter - it would be tantamount to admiting guilt and jail time -

Otherwise you are back to a premeditated murder - or the kidnap / abduction .

The kidnap is still the one scenario that seems more likely to me amongst all three - .

One thing that is coming out now is that the PJ were way out of their depth in the beginning - I mean they diod not record any interviews , they apparently let the hire car be driven to the garage 35 miles by police , they even managed to have a crash in Murats van - the villa was allowed to be rented out again , etc etc

 

[AfterMidnight]

April:



I would have agree with you some years ago but reading at the news daily, I see it differentely.How many news we have heard of foster and adoptive parents committing atrocities towards the same kids "they always wanted"? I am surprised at the amount of cases like that. Really, personally the fact they went through invitro does not mean anything anymore in this evil world we all live in.

Most of what we "read" has either been "leaked" from PLE in an effort to villify the McCanns or is an outright fabrication to sell newspapers.

A great many foster parents take in children for the money. They didn't go through a long, drawn-out process to give birth to them. The foster parents have no ties whatever to the child - they're just a source of income and the less they spend on the kid the more they have for themselves.

The same applies for many adoptive parents, especially where some special needs children are concerned. Some adoptive parents are given aid for the child's care. Again, money in pocket - not spent on the child. Again, adoptive parents have no biological stake in these kids, and sometimes there isn't any bonding at all.

I don't believe one can equate fostering and adopting to going through in vitro with an actual birth process. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Trino]

If the McCanns are guilty of anything, it's narcissism, but I also think there's something the Tapas 9 aren't revealing, albeit not necessarily about Madeline. It's just that something isn't right.

The Media links have stated that Gerry is returning to work and also that the McCanns have been using Madeline's fund to pay their mortgage.

I have mixed feelings about the mortgage payments coming from this fund. Maybe if we knew the financial status of Gerry and Kate, it would make a difference, but nothing has been revealed about how much they may have in various accounts/funds/money stashed away.

Of course, the problem with such funds is there really isn't planning and dissemination of info about how the money will be used. IMO most people who gave to Madeline's fund didn't think twice about it's use. Had I been asked to contribute to paying the McCann's mortgage, I probably would not have given $. Paying a PR person was a bit over the top, too. I think most people who gave $ wanted the money to be used to search for Madeline.

 

[lakes]

If the McCanns are guilty of anything, it's narcissism, but I also think there's something the Tapas 9 aren't revealing, albeit not necessarily about Madeline. It's just that something isn't right.

The Media links have stated that Gerry is returning to work and also that the McCanns have been using Madeline's fund to pay their mortgage.

I have mixed feelings about the mortgage payments coming from this fund. Maybe if we knew the financial status of Gerry and Kate, it would make a difference, but nothing has been revealed about how much they may have in various accounts/funds/money stashed away.

Of course, the problem with such funds is there really isn't planning and dissemination of info about how the money will be used. IMO most people who gave to Madeline's fund didn't think twice about it's use. Had I been asked to contribute to paying the McCann's mortgage, I probably would not have given $. Paying a PR person was a bit over the top, too. I think most people who gave $ wanted the money to be used to search for Madeline.

yes the Tapas 9 are not saying what they were all going to be doing after the mael, as it has been said before it seems they were off to one of their apartments for a sex party.

 

[Rino]

Most of what we "read" has either been "leaked" from PLE in an effort to villify the McCanns or is an outright fabrication to sell newspapers.

A great many foster parents take in children for the money. They didn't go through a long, drawn-out process to give birth to them. The foster parents have no ties whatever to the child - they're just a source of income and the less they spend on the kid the more they have for themselves.

The same applies for many adoptive parents, especially where some special needs children are concerned. Some adoptive parents are given aid for the child's care. Again, money in pocket - not spent on the child. Again, adoptive parents have no biological stake in these kids, and sometimes there isn't any bonding at all.

I don't believe one can equate fostering and adopting to going through in vitro with an actual birth process. Just my opinion of course.

And now we have couples who go ivf and leave their children unattended to party with friends.

 

[Barnaby]

yes the Tapas 9 are not saying what they were all going to be doing after the mael, as it has been said before it seems they were off to one of their apartments for a sex party.

In fairness that is total conjecture, there is no proof that they were planning to have a sex party.

 

[SleuthMom]

I agree that we live in a very strange world and- anything could and sometimes happens

But this is the whole thing I struggle with - If it was a horrible accident and a spur of the moment thing - the timings just seem so fine as to what / where / when they could have hidden Madleine disposed of the body and got everyone who was involved on side - I just cant see how they pulled it off without leaving some clue , some mistake somewhere - and kept the whole case in the glare of the media for the past 6 months .

They are not stupid people - they would know the risk that they would take in hiding a body - their daughter - it would be tantamount to admiting guilt and jail time -

Otherwise you are back to a premeditated murder - or the kidnap / abduction .

The kidnap is still the one scenario that seems more likely to me amongst all three - .

One thing that is coming out now is that the PJ were way out of their depth in the beginning - I mean they diod not record any interviews , they apparently let the hire car be driven to the garage 35 miles by police , they even managed to have a crash in Murats van - the villa was allowed to be rented out again , etc etc

I agree that there are things on this case that are very odd, nevertheless there are a few clues that we need to take into consideration and that we have discussed here over and over and that point out to the parents. The kidnapping IS a possibility, I just do not think this is the case.

 

[SleuthMom]

Most of what we "read" has either been "leaked" from PLE in an effort to villify the McCanns or is an outright fabrication to sell newspapers.

A great many foster parents take in children for the money. They didn't go through a long, drawn-out process to give birth to them. The foster parents have no ties whatever to the child - they're just a source of income and the less they spend on the kid the more they have for themselves.

The same applies for many adoptive parents, especially where some special needs children are concerned. Some adoptive parents are given aid for the child's care. Again, money in pocket - not spent on the child. Again, adoptive parents have no biological stake in these kids, and sometimes there isn't any bonding at all.

I don't believe one can equate fostering and adopting to going through in vitro with an actual birth process. Just my opinion of course.

I suppose is just a matter of perspective. I personally know many people who went through invitro that do not feel bond with their child as much as adoptive parents I personally know. My point is: Whether they are invitro, adopted or not does NOT make a difference at all to me.

 

[Notebook]

For me the bottom line that can't be disputed is that they left their children alone.

This weekend some friends and my boyfriend walked down from our house to a local theatre to see a show. It is almost exactly the distance that they had to walk to check on their kids. While we were sitting at the table having drinks I asked the other couple "would you leave your kids (all under 3) alone at our house while we are here and just check on them every now and then?" They said of course not! Whether the McCanns are responsible for Maddie's death or not they are responsible for whatever happened to her.

Not that I am not interested in finding out what exactly did happen....just saying however they "aquired" (invitro, adoption, etc) their daughter they neglected her.

 

[mrsmousemat]

Greetings, Mrs. Mousemat! I've looked into these two characters but only in terms of what is public and surface, though denied by one and all. My first thought on reading the beginning of your post was that the website would have been gutted and I see you imply the same thing in asking if anyone got in on time and copied information. I wish I could help you but I have nothing on this. What are your thoughts on Murat's involvement with the doctors?

******************************

Hello Tuba

Thanks for replying. The interest in this person is that somone wanted to compare him to the figure that has been drawn from Jane Tanner's description.

He seems to be a real man of mystery because although he is a partner in Romigen - the company set up by Malinka, Murat and himself, there doesn't seem to be much about him in the press.

The company website was up and running for around a year but there doesn't appear to have been much to read on it. So curiouser and curiouser. Especially as there was a phone call between Murat nad Malinka very late that night reportedly to talk about their website.

As for what I think about the doctors and Murat ?
Haven't a clue. Lots of complicated theories going round.

As for John Stalker. He had a good reputation of being a very though policeman and standing up for the truth. Although retired for some years now.

I sat near him once - and he has such penetrating eyes that you really wouldn't want to be interrogated by him.

If anyone has details of anything or anyone to do with Romigen, would be pleased to read in a personal message as I don't visit very often. Thanks.

 

[colomom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=490468&in_page_id=1770

Blonde, AMERICAN girl?!?!

If this is true somebody's life is about to turn upside down. Praying really hard right now for all American mothers whose daughters have dissapeared.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=490468&in_page_id=1770

Blonde, AMERICAN girl?!?!

If this is true somebody's life is about to turn upside down. Praying really hard right now for all American mothers whose daughters have dissapeared.

This is very curious, especially coming from a McCann PI. I'm trying to understand this...so the PI saw a Blonde American girl in the Moroccan mountains, and just left her there? They assume she was also kidnapped, but just left her there? This is another hoax in my oppenion.

 

[colomom]

This is very curious, especially coming from a McCann PI. I'm trying to understand this...so the PI saw a Blonde American girl in the Moroccan mountains, and just left her there? They assume she was also kidnapped, but just left her there? This is another hoax in my oppenion.

Oh no IW, I don't think so. I am getting the impression that she has been recovered. I wrote to CNN and asked them to check it out.

I just hope that we get more details before this story gets out here in the states. They need to confirm her identity immediately and then broadcast that information.

This better NOT be a hoax!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...snip
Everyone knows they made a poor parenting decision noone here has disputed that.

Noone knows what Maddie was thinking or has thought, I have my doubts about whether shes thinking about anything at all but I hope I'm wrong.

Unfortunately everybody knows this EXCEPT the McCanns. They maintain they where only wrong in not being there the exact minute Maddie was taken...not that it was wrong at any other point in time.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Oh no IW, I don't think so. I am getting the impression that she has been recovered. I wrote to CNN and asked them to check it out.

I just hope that we get more details before this story gets out here in the states. They need to confirm her identity immediately and then broadcast that information.

This better NOT be a hoax!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true#StartComments

It was obvious to the investigators that this girl was not with her natural family. It's entirely feasible that Madeleine could be in a similar situation.

"Seeing this other girl gave investigators a lot of hope that Madeleine too is alive."

It is this quote in the report that makes me think this is bogus. No word that she was recovered , just seen. Hopefully you get some answers Colomom.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I really think that the regret is worded in a v. unfortunate way because it implies that if Kate &/or Gerry had been there, Madeleine would still have been taken but would not have had to go through the experience alone. Remember, "Kate and I have 100 per cent confidence in each other" (that neither is behind this disappearance)? Why would the question even arise. They were together on the night of May 3rd. If, as Gerry himself believes, he was in 5A with the abductor, he was there at the crucial moment but because neither parent had spent the evening at home, he missed the whole crime. There are some hard truths that need to be confronted. Once full admissions are made, I think this type of tweezering through the sharp glass of possibilities will end. The McCanns are overly careful of what not to say in their armored defensiveness. It would be hugely cathartic to acknowledge that leaving their children untended was the worst error of judgment of their lives. No qualifiers, no mitigators, no excuses, just THE WORST. If they don't do this, their thinking will remain hedged and a similar mistake can occur at any time.

I absolutely agree, 100%. I haven't been on for a few days so sorry to keep bringing up stuff from a few days ago. ANYWAY, it does irk me they never admit fault of their actions of leaving the babies alone. Lets say there are no drinking and driving laws in Portagul, and Madeleine was killed while they where driving drunk, would they defend that choice too? Sure they would. Now, if Maddie HAD a babysitter, and the sitter stepped out back to have a smoke during the abduction, would they blame her? You bet your sweet britches they would.