General Discussion Thread No. 18

[lovebites]

I have no idea but making up sad scenarios about what she may or may not be thinking isn't helping anyone.

Perhaps, but when we stop trying to imagine what victims go through we stop having the ability to empathize.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Only fact so far.

I'm not sure what you mean? Isn't it a fact that the children were left alone? All the interviews are full of Kate making statements trying to justify that fact.

 

[Texana]

The fact that the McCanns left their children alone in a resort room in a foreign country night after night is more than just a side note or an initial starting point.

It says so much about their character and judgment.

No, it is not usual for parents, particularly those of the professional or upper class, to leave their children alone. Farm them out to non-stop daycare or leave them with the nanny, yes. But leave them alone, no.

If someone took their child, it is because night after night, they set up a pattern of behavior that made someone feel confident they could establish a safe window to do so. That the McCanns continue to defend that pattern of behavior is odd, to say the least, and continuing to perpetuate something that is unsafe for other children. If they truly want to be spokespeople for child welfare, they should begin by denouncing the whole "babywatching" "as close as your garden" myth. It is clearly a myth of safety if predators know about it and watching to seize the opportunity.

If there was no abductor, then again, it was because the child tghat were left some kind of accident befell her. I personally believe this is much more reasonable a scenario and one that fits the McCanns' words: "sorry we were not there the moment she was taken" and "Maddie was happy with her life." Those are the words of parents whose child passed away and they were not able to prevent it for whatever reasons.

Decisions are ruled by the values we hold and the character traits we have. They do not exist in a vacuum independent of the people who make them. It is simply not possible to separate the character of the McCanns from the decisions they made (or from the comments and actions they made after Madeleine's disappearance, as well.)

 

[Barnaby]

Well said Texana!

I have to add that I think the fact that they are doctors seems to make them think they are untouchable regardless of their bad choices! I know people who are so intimidated by doctors that they will not challenge them on anything which sometimes leads to improper diagnosis & death!
Because doctors do make life or death decisions, they tend to think that they are God & unfortunately the general public tend to revere them as such!

Don't mean to be frivilous but an apt joke is:
Q: What's the difference between God & a doctor?
A: God doesn't think he's a doctor!

Now don't get me wrong I have friends who are doctors & who would never act as the McCanns have done but I also know some who are incredibly arrogant, rude & basically incompetent because their arrogance renders them such!

Only today I had the misfortune to attend a public surgery with an unknown (to me) doctor because of a back injury (I am usually privileged, the rare time I have a medical problem to see a private doctor who happens to be a friend, but would not think of imposing on her at weekends & my pain was accute) I sat in a queue for over an hour, the surgery had run over time. As the last patient was admitted for consultation, I had gone to the ladies so the doctor on call did not see me waiting & thought his work was done. When he released the "last" patient & saw me he was so incredibly rude, asking me how I had slipped in unnoticed after surgery had ended! It took quite a bit of convincing him that I had been there waiting long before the doors had closed, I was surprised that he attacked me despite the fact that I was almost doubled over & my pain was obvious as was his lack of empathy! This is the sort of arrogant behaviour that these people who have been deified by the minions get away with. Hence I am not surprised that the McCanns think they can manipulate the public at will into believing whatever nonsense they dream up to justify their totally unjustifiable actions!

In their inherent arrogance, they simply refuse to believe that anyone could ever doubt their decisions or question their culpability. Unfortunately they do forget that there are many people in the world who have equal IQ's, perhaps a lot more common sense & certainly a lot more empathy, people who see through their facade & who cannot justify their negligent actions which lead to the terrible fate of what should have been their precious daughter! The same people are also entitled to muse about their behaviour after the event, behaviour which has been atypical to say the least, of people in their situation!

Personally I think that the fact that the general public have ceased to deify these people is bothering them more than the loss of Madeleine & that explains why the whole campaign is more "them" centered than Madeleine centered!

Due to their excessive narcissism, they will continue the spin to try to win over their public but if only they would realise that to continually protest their innocence, to bolster their claims with rampantly fabricated information such as a picture of a greasy haired Man in Chinos carrying a child in a platter like fashion & to feign emotion now six months after the event when there was none in what should have been the dark days of May, is actually fostering suspicions of guilt & that if they had just shut up, it might have even gone away, in time!

 

[Desertpea]

I'm not sure what you mean? Isn't it a fact that the children were left alone? All the interviews are full of Kate making statements trying to justify that fact.

Yes it is a fact the kids were left alone.

 

[Desertpea]

Thanks for the feedback Tuba and Texana. Tuba I think you hit the nail on the head for me, anyway, when you said the statement about "not being there the moment she was taken" implies that Maddie would have been taken anyway, she just wouldn't have been alone. I think that is way I feel so uncomfortable every time I read that statement.

And I agree Texanna and Pinkhammer - why, everytime Kate gets a chance to speak to Maddie or make an appeal to the kidnapper does she say "Maddie knows I love her"? Why doesn't at least ONE of them make some kind of appeal or try to talk directly to their daughter? Why? I mean seriously, if Kate can't do it, Gerry could take over for her and tell Maddie they are looking for her and that they are going to find her or ask the kidnapper to bring her back.

Frustration......

Salem

People are different for a reason otherwise we would all be the same.

So Kate needs to ask the kidnapper to bring her daughter back and tell Maddie (even though in all reality the kid isn't watch the telly) that they are looking for her
Give me a break.
She could do all that and people would still find something wrong with what she was saying, wearing and how shes acting.
It doesn't matter what she does people have already convicted her because she left her kids alone that night.

 

[Shazza]

Yes it is a fact the kids were left alone.

She was heard crying for her daddy one night by a neighbour, we obviously dont know as fact as to how she was feeling when she was abducted or killed accidentally by her parents or whatever befell poor Madelaine, but commonsense would surely say that this poor child was in some sort of distress, as a mother I know my kids would have been terrified, she is obviously not going to go willingly with a kidnapper, and would have been in pain if she was killed, or very afraid if she was raped, or in the case of being accidentally killed by an overdose, that would have been the better of all the evils that could have happened, you need to get your head out of the clouds and let you commonsense kick in or if you are a mother then your motherly instincts. There are more options than what you are posting, and you are entitled to your opinion but look at the bigger picture.

 

[Shazza]

People are different for a reason otherwise we would all be the same.

So Kate needs to ask the kidnapper to bring her daughter back and tell Maddie (even though in all reality the kid isn't watch the telly) that they are looking for her
Give me a break.
She could do all that and people would still find something wrong with what she was saying, wearing and how shes acting.
It doesn't matter what she does people have already convicted her because she left her kids alone that night.

IMO noone has convicted Kate because of her lack of parental skills, even though that contributed to Madelaine missing, which is fact, there is so much more information that would make people think her guilty and has been posted over and over in this forum, you keep repeating that Kate is being villified for leaving her children alone, so it might be a good idea to take some of your own advice and stop repeating what we all know.

 

[Desertpea]

She was heard crying for her daddy one night by a neighbour, we obviously dont know as fact as to how she was feeling when she was abducted or killed accidentally by her parents or whatever befell poor Madelaine, but commonsense would surely say that this poor child was in some sort of distress, as a mother I know my kids would have been terrified, she is obviously not going to go willingly with a kidnapper, and would have been in pain if she was killed, or very afraid if she was raped, or in the case of being accidentally killed by an overdose, that would have been the better of all the evils that could have happened, you need to get your head out of the clouds and let you commonsense kick in or if you are a mother then your motherly instincts. There are more options than what you are posting, and you are entitled to your opinion but look at the bigger picture.

I have my head in the clouds because I don't agree that Maddie isn't thinking her parents aren't looking for her?

Being imaginative about how much Maddie suffered isn't helping anyone least of all Maddie.

Commonsense tells me she would have been more than "in some sort of distress" she would have been absolutely terrified, and if she was raped more than "very afraid" she would have been in immense pain as well as scared to death.
I understand how Maddie could have suffered I just dont see the point in trying to guess what the kid was/is thinking

 

[Shazza]

I have my head in the clouds because I don't agree that Maddie isn't thinking her parents aren't looking for her?

Being imaginative about how much Maddie suffered isn't helping anyone least of all Maddie.

Commonsense tells me she would have been more than "in some sort of distress" she would have been absolutely terrified, and if she was raped more than "very afraid" she would have been in immense pain as well as scared to death.
I understand how Maddie could have suffered I just dont see the point in trying to guess what the kid was/is thinking.

We are all giving our imaginative ideas as to what could have happened,the bolded is your opinion and your imaginative ideas, so how does it differ that your opinions which are not fact also are any more right or wrong than any other poster here.

What I am trying to say is we all have opinions as to what could have happened, but you say we have already committed Kate, when in reality we have only put forth what we think may have happened just as you have.

 

[Desertpea]

We are all giving our imaginative ideas as to what could have happened,the bolded is your opinion and your imaginative ideas, so how does it differ that your opinions which are not fact also are any more right or wrong than any other poster here.

What I am trying to say is we all have opinions as to what could have happened, but you say we have already committed Kate, when in reality we have only put forth what we think may have happened just as you have.

The bolded was in response to your post, sorry you didn't get it.

 

[CaliKid]

I have my head in the clouds because I don't agree that Maddie isn't thinking her parents aren't looking for her?

Being imaginative about how much Maddie suffered isn't helping anyone least of all Maddie.

Commonsense tells me she would have been more than "in some sort of distress" she would have been absolutely terrified, and if she was raped more than "very afraid" she would have been in immense pain as well as scared to death.
I understand how Maddie could have suffered I just dont see the point in trying to guess what the kid was/is thinking

If Madeleine is still alive and if she hasn't seen them on television, her memory of her parents is at this point very fuzzy to the point of them being a long ago, almost-forgotten part of her life. Depending on the amount of trauma she's suffered, she may not remember them at all.

That's the way children her age are- they have incomplete memory systems that need to be prodded into recalling things from their past. You are around them every day to reinforce the idea of family and reintroduce them to people they've met or show them pictures of familiar people, places and things.

Looking for her? At this stage in her mind, they may not even exist.

 

[Shazza]

The bolded was in response to your post, sorry you didn't get it.

The bold was also your opinion, I know we dont agree, but those bolded lines from your quote are your opinions whether they are a response to my post or not, you dont think that Maddie is not thinking that her parents arnt looking for her, that to me sounds like your opinion.

So what am I not getting.

 

[Desertpea]

If Madeleine is still alive and if she hasn't seen them on television, her memory of her parents is at this point very fuzzy to the point of them being a long ago, almost-forgotten part of her life. Depending on the amount of trauma she's suffered, she may not remember them at all.

That's the way children her age are- they have incomplete memory systems that need to be prodded into recalling things from their past. You are around them every day to reinforce the idea of family and reintroduce them to people they've met or show them pictures of familiar people, places and things.

Looking for her? At this stage in her mind, they may not even exist.

I agree she could have well forgotten her life prior to her disappearence it has been nearly 6 months and she is/was only 4.

I was responding to poster Tubas post in another thread whereby he/she suggested Maddie was thinking her parents weren't looking for her my contention was noone knows what Maddie is thinking and that her thought processes weren't the same as an adult.

Tuba might think Maddies parents aren't looking for her but to say Maddie is thinking that is preposterous.

 

[Shazza]

I agree she could have well forgotten her life prior to her disappearence it has been nearly 6 months and she is/was only 4.

I was responding to Tubas post in another thread whereby he/she suggested Maddie was thinking her parents weren't looking for her my contention was noone knows what Maddie is thinking and that her thought processes weren't the same as an adult.

Tuba might think Maddies parents aren't looking for her but to say Maddie is thinking that is preposterous.

But you said that " I dont agree that Maddie is not thinking her parents are looking for her".

You are stating your opinion there, so it sounds to me like a contradiction to what you have just said in this post.
Im sorry you do not get what I am saying.

 

[CaliKid]

I agree she could have well forgotten her life prior to her disappearence it has been nearly 6 months and she is/was only 4.

I was responding to poster Tubas post in another thread whereby he/she suggested Maddie was thinking her parents weren't looking for her my contention was noone knows what Maddie is thinking and that her thought processes weren't the same as an adult.

Tuba might think Maddies parents aren't looking for her but to say Maddie is thinking that is preposterous.

Which is a very good reason why her parents should be speaking to her as if she can hear them. It's all about reassurance, jogging memory and making her believe she will be rescued, at least as much as she can comprehend it.

 

[dingo]

I agree she could have well forgotten her life prior to her disappearence it has been nearly 6 months and she is/was only 4.

I was responding to poster Tubas post in another thread whereby he/she suggested Maddie was thinking her parents weren't looking for her my contention was noone knows what Maddie is thinking and that her thought processes weren't the same as an adult.

Tuba might think Maddies parents aren't looking for her but to say Maddie is thinking that is preposterous.

She was 3 when she was taken.

 

[Desertpea]

I used present and past tense to indicate that I am not sure if Maddie is dead or alive.

I am quite aware she went missing when she was three.

 

[SleuthMom]

It doesn't matter what she does people have already convicted her because she left her kids alone that night.

They left the kids alone the WHOLE WEEK and who knows how many nights before that. This was NOT a one-time "incident" but idiocy and irresponsibility to the max.

 

[Barnaby]

I have my head in the clouds because I don't agree that Maddie isn't thinking her parents aren't looking for her?

Being imaginative about how much Maddie suffered isn't helping anyone least of all Maddie.

Commonsense tells me she would have been more than "in some sort of distress" she would have been absolutely terrified, and if she was raped more than "very afraid" she would have been in immense pain as well as scared to death.
I understand how Maddie could have suffered I just dont see the point in trying to guess what the kid was/is thinking

Desert you don't know what she is thinking if she is still alive anymore than we do so perpetuating this argument is pointless.