General Discussion Thread No. 18

[Salem]

From Cali's link above: http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/


~snip
"Nobody feels more guilty than Gerry and Kate over the decision they took jointly to leave their children in that position that night. And they will never forgive themselves. They've said this often.

"Nobody feels more guilty than they that Madeleine was alone when she was taken. However, they felt they had a perfectly proper system of checking (her in place)." ~end snip (bolding is mine).

It always surprises me when they insist on the "joint" decision. They have done it from the beginning, when they (mostly Gerry) kept saying "we don't blame each other." I'm not sure why, but this always gets me. They are parents, I would think that most people would assume that they would make decisions together, even though we all understand that one parent may feel more strongly about the decision. In my mind, it just doesn't need to be said and while I am not the most learned sleuther, I don't remember ever reading where the parents of a missing child were quick to say "we don't blame each other" and it was a "joint decision."

The second thing I have a lot of trouble with is that it seems they only feel guilty for that "moment" not for the 4 or 5 nights the children were left unattended, not for the night Maddie supposedly cried and cried. Just for the "moment". You would think by now, with all the coaching, input from relatives, etc. they would both be saying "we should have never left our children unattended, never, never, never" but no, they should have only been there for the "moment."

And the new one that is coming out: "I know Maddie was happy with her life" what the he?? does that mean for a 3/4 year old? That's what you say about someone who has lived a good long time and is no longer with us. Not something you say about a child, is it?

Salem

 

[Tuba]

I really think that the regret is worded in a v. unfortunate way because it implies that if Kate &/or Gerry had been there, Madeleine would still have been taken but would not have had to go through the experience alone. Remember, "Kate and I have 100 per cent confidence in each other" (that neither is behind this disappearance)? Why would the question even arise. They were together on the night of May 3rd. If, as Gerry himself believes, he was in 5A with the abductor, he was there at the crucial moment but because neither parent had spent the evening at home, he missed the whole crime. There are some hard truths that need to be confronted. Once full admissions are made, I think this type of tweezering through the sharp glass of possibilities will end. The McCanns are overly careful of what not to say in their armored defensiveness. It would be hugely cathartic to acknowledge that leaving their children untended was the worst error of judgment of their lives. No qualifiers, no mitigators, no excuses, just THE WORST. If they don't do this, their thinking will remain hedged and a similar mistake can occur at any time.

 

[Texana]

Salem, that is exactly right. If indeed a stalker was watching them for the several previous nights, then the whole "babywatching type" system must be denounced and renounced forever.

Just one near-miss poisoning of trick-or-treaters on Halloween by the notorious "Candyman--" Ronald O'Brien, who was actually trying to kill his own son for insurance money--was enough to shut down the majority of trick-or-treaters in the greater Houston area forever. Whether it is over-reaction or not, the logical reaction for any kind of tragedy resulting from something we once thought safe, is to no longer think that safe, and say so loudly and clearly. But the McCanns continue to avoid saying that.

Tuba, I firmly believe that the reason people seem to be so "stuck" on this point is there is something that rings false here, that is disconcerting and dissonant with people. It is not so much that the McCanns made a "poor parenting decision." It is that they continue to defend it. If they can defend that choice, what else would they defend?

And again, agreeing with Salem: The choice of words about Maddie's life are very, very odd. That is something you do say about people who have passed on. Of course Maddie was happy with her life, why wouldn't she be? Why does Kate feel the need to say I know Maddie was happy with her life? Why is she not begging instead to have Maddie returned to that happy life, to have Maddie come back home to her happy life?

 

[Desertpea]

I have read it and it hasnt changed my mind.

Mine either.

I don't hold much faith in profilers, seen them been wrong one too many time.


They left three very young children unattended while they pursued pleasure for themselves. This is a sign of narcissism and a lack of attachment to one’s children.

This comment alone makes me dismmiss this ladys claims.
She should write novels! maybe she does lol

 

[Pinkhammer]

Excellent article by Pat Brown. It baffles me why Kate will not make a public appeal to the supposed kidnapper like any other mother of a missing child would do. Why does she refuse to do this simple motherly thing? Think of Erin Runion; Mrs. Smart; Beth Holloway Twitty: their appeals to the person or persons who had their childen were gutwrenching. "Please, please, please return my child. She misses us. We miss her. We need for her to be home with us...etc."

Kate McCann is a strange cold woman.

 

[Salem]

Thanks for the feedback Tuba and Texana. Tuba I think you hit the nail on the head for me, anyway, when you said the statement about "not being there the moment she was taken" implies that Maddie would have been taken anyway, she just wouldn't have been alone. I think that is way I feel so uncomfortable every time I read that statement.

And I agree Texanna and Pinkhammer - why, everytime Kate gets a chance to speak to Maddie or make an appeal to the kidnapper does she say "Maddie knows I love her"? Why doesn't at least ONE of them make some kind of appeal or try to talk directly to their daughter? Why? I mean seriously, if Kate can't do it, Gerry could take over for her and tell Maddie they are looking for her and that they are going to find her or ask the kidnapper to bring her back.

Frustration......

Salem

 

[colomom]

http://julietpain.blogspot.com/2007/10/madeleine-those-pyjamas.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/05/14/1178995077373.html?page=3

"Kate dressed Amelie in her sister's pyjamas and the baby said: 'Maddy's jammies. Where is Maddy?' But she is too young to understand. And how do you explain? All we know is that Madeleine needs her family. She loves us, we love her. It is time for her to come home."

Thanks for the photoshop genius speefts!! (our friend at Proboards79)

Who's PJ's???

 

[Tuba]

I felt very sad when I first heard or read that a relative suggested to Kate that she keep a diary so Madeleine would know that they were looking for her. Kate's mother says Kate is very maternal, far more than she but maybe she is not good with words of love and caring. Touch is important but I do think children need to hear the words too and would Madeleine really believe her parents were not looking for her? I think that's possible because they continued to leave all of their crying little ones alone, no matter how much they protested. And then one night Madeleine's fears and dreads were realised. The children really did know best.

 

[Desertpea]

Maddie was 4 years old, I doubt her thought processes are the same as yours Tuba.

 

[Tuba]

Maybe not. What do you figure she was thinking?

 

[Texana]

I can tell you with children twice as old as Madeleine, when their parents are late to pick them up from school, they often fear their parents are not coming at all.

Unfortunately, children do not think the same way we do.

 

[Desertpea]

Maybe not. What do you figure she was thinking?

I have no idea but making up sad scenarios about what she may or may not be thinking isn't helping anyone.

 

[Barnaby]

I have no idea but making up sad scenarios about what she may or may not be thinking isn't helping anyone.

Well we can hazard a damned good guess at what she was thinking & feeling - frightened, alone, terrified, hysterical, petrified, the adjectives could go on, when she was left alone in the dark in that apartment, awake & screaming for her daddy!
What do you think about when you are afraid Desertpea? How do you feel & I presume you are adult enough to perhaps rationalise fears, a 3-4 years old is not so multiply your irrational thoughts when you are afraid by 100 when referring to an almost 4 year old, quite able to think that something horrible might happen to her & guess what? IT DID!

 

[Desertpea]

Well we can hazard a damned good guess at what she was thinking & feeling - frightened, alone, terrified, hysterical, petrified, the adjectives could go on, when she was left alone in the dark in that apartment, awake & screaming for her daddy!
What do you think about when you are afraid Desertpea? How do you feel & I presume you are adult enough to perhaps rationalise fears, a 3-4 years old is not so multiply your irrational thoughts when you are afraid by 100 when referring to an almost 4 year old, quite able to think that something horrible might happen to her & guess what? IT DID!

Noone knows what Maddie is thinking or has thought.

It's a common theme in children to imagine monsters under the bed, in the cupboard and most of the time that is all it is their imagination.

Now I know it wasn't Maddies imagination because she is gone but saying stuff like
would Madeleine really believe her parents were not looking for her? I think that's possible

is not helping the case or Maddie.
We can't profess to know what she was thinking.
And I do believe half the world is still looking for Maddie her parents included they can only do what they can do
Even if Kate and Gerry walked the streets of Portugal for the rest of their lives some people would still say they are doing nothing.

 

[Barnaby]

Noone knows what Maddie is thinking or has thought.

It's a common theme in children to imagine monsters under the bed, in the cupboard and most of the time that is all it is their imagination.



quote]

Very common indeed, just one reason for not leaving babies alone & being there to reassure them!

 

[Desertpea]

Noone knows what Maddie is thinking or has thought.

It's a common theme in children to imagine monsters under the bed, in the cupboard and most of the time that is all it is their imagination.



quote]

Very common indeed, just one reason for not leaving babies alone & being there to reassure them!

Here we are back at the they left the kids alone they must have killed her bit.

Move on.

Everyone knows they made a poor parenting decision noone here has disputed that.

Noone knows what Maddie was thinking or has thought, I have my doubts about whether shes thinking about anything at all but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I see nothing wrong with some of us having empathy with a child who might feel lost, abandoned, or lonely. To me that sort of empathy is exactly what makes all of us feel so horrible that this happened, to Maddie or any child.

All of us were children once - anyone who has ever been separated from their mother in the grocery store even for a few minutes can remember that sense of fear of abandonment. That's why children often shout or cry when they can't see their parents.

I believe the parents were culpable, and this issue will not go away, whether it's a "useful" line of discussion or not - it's a fact. Facts tend to stick around.

 

[SieSie]

Tuba, I firmly believe that the reason people seem to be so "stuck" on this point is there is something that rings false here, that is disconcerting and dissonant with people. It is not so much that the McCanns made a "poor parenting decision." It is that they continue to defend it. If they can defend that choice, what else would they defend?

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Very well said, Texana!! That's what has me "stuck" on their behavior the most.

 

[Desertpea]

I see nothing wrong with some of us having empathy with a child who might feel lost, abandoned, or lonely. To me that sort of empathy is exactly what makes all of us feel so horrible that this happened, to Maddie or any child.

All of us were children once - anyone who has ever been separated from their mother in the grocery store even for a few minutes can remember that sense of fear of abandonment. That's why children often shout or cry when they can't see their parents.

I believe the parents were culpable, and this issue will not go away, whether it's a "useful" line of discussion or not - it's a fact. Facts tend to stick around.

Only fact so far.

 

[Barnaby]

I see nothing wrong with some of us having empathy with a child who might feel lost, abandoned, or lonely. To me that sort of empathy is exactly what makes all of us feel so horrible that this happened, to Maddie or any child.

All of us were children once - anyone who has ever been separated from their mother in the grocery store even for a few minutes can remember that sense of fear of abandonment. That's why children often shout or cry when they can't see their parents.

I believe the parents were culpable, and this issue will not go away, whether it's a "useful" line of discussion or not - it's a fact. Facts tend to stick around.

Yes Thoughtfox, it is a fact, one of the few facts that we actually know! It is a fact that the Mccanns left that baby alone to her fate, it does not mean they killed her but if she is dead then they may as well have done as if they had been doing their duty she would be alive, well & with them today! Cigarettes kill but they won't kill you if you don't smoke them!