General Discussion Thread No. 18

[Squishified]

For me the bottom line that can't be disputed is that they left their children alone.

This weekend some friends and my boyfriend walked down from our house to a local theatre to see a show. It is almost exactly the distance that they had to walk to check on their kids. While we were sitting at the table having drinks I asked the other couple "would you leave your kids (all under 3) alone at our house while we are here and just check on them every now and then?" They said of course not! Whether the McCanns are responsible for Maddie's death or not they are responsible for whatever happened to her.

Not that I am not interested in finding out what exactly did happen....just saying however they "aquired" (invitro, adoption, etc) their daughter they neglected her.

Great post, Notebook. I totally agree.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Great post, Notebook. I totally agree.

Me too. I have to wonder what the McCanns definition of neglect is? People get more time in the US for abandoning their pets than the McCanns have gotten for abandoning their CHILDREN.

 

[Texana]

This is very curious, especially coming from a McCann PI. I'm trying to understand this...so the PI saw a Blonde American girl in the Moroccan mountains, and just left her there? They assume she was also kidnapped, but just left her there? This is another hoax in my oppenion.

I agree.

The fact that there are indigenous blond people in North Africa (as well as Spain) is apparently not known to any of the investigators, either.

 

[emery]

Oh no IW, I don't think so. I am getting the impression that she has been recovered. I wrote to CNN and asked them to check it out.

I just hope that we get more details before this story gets out here in the states. They need to confirm her identity immediately and then broadcast that information.

This better NOT be a hoax!

This is my first time posting in the McCann threads, although I've been following the press almost since the beginning. I have a few probably general questions. If there are already threads devoted to the topic, I'd appreciate any pointers to them.

When I read this latest news this morning, I was stunned that Spanish detectives claim to have spotted an American child in Morocco and, it seems, didn't stay with her until officials could be summoned and her identity verified. If this is true, this is shocking! I imagine parents of missing little girls all over America waiting in agony for more information in case it's their little girl. Frankly, part of me hopes this isn't true because, if it is, who knows where that little girl is now!

Anyway, this got me wondering how prevalent these "pedophile rings" that abduct children "to order" really are. On one level, it sounds pretty conspiracy-theory-ish. I would imagine pedophiles would work alone (or in small, close-knit groups) and on a small scale to avoid detection. I can't see any elaborate, well-funded groups of pedophiles placing orders for certain types and financing sophisticated, high risk abductions. This sounds like the stuff of dimestore novels and spy thriller movies. Aren't there (unfortunately) plenty of small children in impoverished third world countries for these rings to prey on that they don't need to go around abducting upper-middle class children from fancy resorts and risk an international manhunt? On the other hand, some one took Madeleine McCann. I suppose it could be a pedophile ring. But, how likely is this scenario, really?

I don't mean to sound snide or rhetorical. Is there really any evidence such sophisticated pedophile rings operate in Western Europe? Also, is there any evidence to substantiate the claim that Morocco is in fact a refuge for these rings?

 

[Desertpea]

I can't see any elaborate, well-funded groups of pedophiles placing orders for certain types and financing sophisticated, high risk abductions

Just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
Playing pedophile rings down won't make them go away.

They exist- most everywhere.

Some articles I found on the topic.

Europe tackles pedophilia cases

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0309/p06s01-woeu.html

In Portugal, 10 people, including a former cabinet minister and a former ambassador, are awaiting trial on pedophilia charges linked to a children's home scandal that appears to have been swept under the carpet for decades.
Britain, U.S. break up online pedophile ring700 investigated; 31 children rescued as authorities shut global operation

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057

 

[AfterMidnight]

I can't see any elaborate, well-funded groups of pedophiles placing orders for certain types and financing sophisticated, high risk abductions

Just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
Playing pedophile rings down won't make them go away.

They exist- most everywhere.

Some articles I found on the topic.

Europe tackles pedophilia cases

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0309/p06s01-woeu.html

In Portugal, 10 people, including a former cabinet minister and a former ambassador, are awaiting trial on pedophilia charges linked to a children's home scandal that appears to have been swept under the carpet for decades.
Britain, U.S. break up online pedophile ring700 investigated; 31 children rescued as authorities shut global operation

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057[/URL]

Good info Desertpea, and there's plenty more where that came from.

 

[Trino]

I agree there are pedophile rings; European blonde girls are a favorite in some areas of the world.

However, I am suspicious enough of the McCann's/Tapas 9 actions that I cannot make myself completely accept that Madeline was kidnapped by such a ring. Surely, with the large reward and all the publicity, someone would be coming forward, yet we have heard nothing, nada. Haven't there been several sightings of a blonde girl with an older woman (60ish) in the Rif Mts.? Those that supposedly saw the two together cannot be so rich that they're not interested in the reward.

 

[AfterMidnight]

I agree there are pedophile rings; European blonde girls are a favorite in some areas of the world.

However, I am suspicious enough of the McCann's/Tapas 9 actions that I cannot make myself completely accept that Madeline was kidnapped by such a ring. Surely, with the large reward and all the publicity, someone would be coming forward, yet we have heard nothing, nada. Haven't there been several sightings of a blonde girl with an older woman (60ish) in the Rif Mts.? Those that supposedly saw the two together cannot be so rich that they're not interested in the reward.

Maybe they are afraid of retaliation? Things are much different in that part of the world.

 

[Trino]

http://c.1asphost.com/imazighen/rifains/algeria2.htm

Check out this picture, which shows there are blonde children in the Rif Mts. It's from Wikipedia and is a picture of people who inhabit the area.

 

[Texana]

I fully believe there are pedophilia rings and some involve wealthy or powerful people as well. However, I don't believe they would ever abduct a child who would end up a high-profile case--such as the cute little girl of two British tourists/professional people--such rings are like cockroaches, they avoid daylight and attention.

 

[Barnaby]

This is very curious, especially coming from a McCann PI. I'm trying to understand this...so the PI saw a Blonde American girl in the Moroccan mountains, and just left her there? They assume she was also kidnapped, but just left her there? This is another hoax in my oppenion.

ITA! This is ridiculous i think!

 

[concernedperson]

They used part of the fund to pay on their mortgage?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306077,00.html

 

[mic730]

They used part of the fund to pay on their mortgage?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306077,00.html

I read that article and I was a little shocked. I understand that the time they have taken off work might cause money problems but it seems like a use of the fund that might not have been intended by the donors.

 

[colomom]

This is my first time posting in the McCann threads, although I've been following the press almost since the beginning.

~snip

When I read this latest news this morning, I was stunned that Spanish detectives claim to have spotted an American child in Morocco and, it seems, didn't stay with her until officials could be summoned and her identity verified. If this is true, this is shocking! I imagine parents of missing little girls all over America waiting in agony for more information in case it's their little girl. Frankly, part of me hopes this isn't true because, if it is, who knows where that little girl is now!

Anyway, this got me wondering how prevalent these "pedophile rings" that abduct children "to order" really are.

~snip

Is there really any evidence such sophisticated pedophile rings operate in Western Europe? Also, is there any evidence to substantiate the claim that Morocco is in fact a refuge for these rings?

Welcome emery!

This is as good as place as any other thread to ask your questions.

Your point about the moms getting their hopes up and the agony of waiting is exactly my fear as well. I am praying that this story does not get spread around to much without positive ID on the little girl.

I wish I could answer your questions regarding pedo rings but I cannot. I have an 8 year old girl and every time I try to research that subject I end up very upset and frightened. It seems to me that pedophila is more prevalent everywhere and the internet has made it easier for them to share their sick pervision and form gangs (better word than groups or rings, IMO). I pray that Madeleine has not been taken into that world.

Thanks for posting, hope to see you around.

~peace

 

[colomom]

http://trannyfattyacid.blogspot.com/2007/10/stop-and-search-all-arabs.html

http://www.droitfondamental.eu/06-McCann-biometrie_madeleine_bouchra-GB.htm


:furious: :furious:

 

[Trino]

Check the map at the bottom (Feb.2007) for the potential reach of pedophile rings by country.

 

[CaliKid]

A great many foster parents take in children for the money. They didn't go through a long, drawn-out process to give birth to them. The foster parents have no ties whatever to the child - they're just a source of income and the less they spend on the kid the more they have for themselves.

The same applies for many adoptive parents, especially where some special needs children are concerned. Some adoptive parents are given aid for the child's care. Again, money in pocket - not spent on the child. Again, adoptive parents have no biological stake in these kids, and sometimes there isn't any bonding at all.

I don't believe one can equate fostering and adopting to going through in vitro with an actual birth process. Just my opinion of course.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!

I was a foster parent for 10 years. I adopted 6 of the children I fostered (all prenatally exposed to methamphetamine), and no, I wasn't in it for the money. I was a foster parent because I knew I was making a difference in children's lives, giving them a safe place to live when their parents were so strung out on drugs they couldn't take care of themselves, let alone their babies. I have seen you wouldn't even in your wildest dreams be able to believe, much less understand.

As for having no ties, the ones we adopted were children we fell so in love with that by the time they were free, they already felt like our own kids. We couldn't have bonded with them more if they'd been our biological babies.

MOST foster parents take in children for the same reason, and the ones who "do it for the money" are the exception, not the norm. The foster mothers I know are selfless, wonderful women who value the health and welfare of their foster children as much as their own. In it for the money? What money? Most of us spend much more on our foster children then we get reimbursed by the state for. Multiple visits to doctors, therapy and testing appointments, special equipment, easy-to-digest (and expensive) formulas- the list goes on and on.

When you end up staying up night after night with screaming infants going through drug withdrawal, you couldn't pay me enough to make it worthwhile if my objective was getting rich. It is a thankless job, made even more difficult by social workers who have to follow arcane rules and sometimes put bureacracy ahead of what's best for the children. You have birthparents who think our time is at their disposal, and I had many a ruined holiday due to demands from these selfish people. I got into a lot of trouble with social services for going to bat for several of my f. children who were too young to speak up for themselves when their caseworkers wanted to send them back to mothers who were manipulating the system and, IMO, not ready to parent.

Four of my foster babies were profoundly premature, two of my adopted children needed physical and speech therapy, and two grew up to have ADHD and learning disabilities. My oldest adopted daughter was so traumatized by physical abuse she received at the hands of her mother that we had bonding issues resulting in major acting out when she was 15, but we NEVER gave up on her. We never wrote her off with, "hey, you're adopted, we don't care, good luck with your life". I love my children, no matter where they came from.

And for your information, it might take 9 months to give birth to a child, but in California it takes no less than 2½ years to legally free one through the court system. When you have a child whom you've watched grow from an infant and you are attached to that child and you worry about a relative popping up out of nowhere to lay claim to him or her, it seems like forever.

I suggest that you refrain from making assumptions on a subject you obviously know NOTHING about.

 

[Barnaby]

Calikid, I so totally agree with you & may I say that what you have done is so admirable to give stability & love to these poor kids!

I wanted to foster kids as I wanted a big family & was only blessed with two children. However, I have to say that I decided against it because I knew that i could never deal with getting to love a child & having to give her/him back. That was the cowards way out I know & I have so much respect for anyone who can actually do it. I would totally agree with you that the ones who do it for the money are probably in a big minority!

 

[colomom]

EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!

~snip (with regret)

Cali,

I am in awe of you. Thank you for sharing your story, your courage, your determination with us.

I wish I could say what is in my heart but the Mods would kick my butt outta here.

Everyone, go see Martian Child (movie) and know the love of a foster parent/adoptive parent for the child that G*d has given them. IVF, foster, adoption, birth....love is love and LOVE means that you would never place that gift in danger, never ever....

How you have become a parent means nothing, how you love your children means everything!!!!!

 

[Texana]

Calikid,
I'm in awe and respect for what you've done.

:blowkiss: