General theory thread and motives rehashed #2

[Whisperer]

I couldn't find any cell towers in Satsuma...except that one on #17 but it is listed as Crescent City

Welaka 23561 NE 120 ST
CRECENT CITY US Highway 17 (002765 / Satsuma)
CREELS 0.4 miles W on Sand Beach Road from Hwy 65 (088422 / Creels)
CRESCENT CITY 380 Union Avenue (002766 / Crescent City)
CRESCENT CITY 3.2 KM W STATE ROAD #308 (088423 / Crescent City)
Crescent City 1560 County Road 308
CRESCENT CITY 1 MI NW
LAKE COMO 1884 S. HWY 17

 

[dodie20]

These people would do anything for money, and if you look at who they hung around with, you see that drugs, guns and prostitution all play a part of that lifestyle. (poor Haleigh, never stood a chance at a normal life with the parents she had).

I don’t think Misty was in the MH that night, and could have been out doing something either with RC’s knowledge or at his behest (that’s why his attitude towards her is so confusing, and not what you would expect from someone who had left their children in her care).

It was said that Joe flew into a rage when he couldn’t find a gun. Why would he fly into a rage when it wasn’t his gun, and wasn’t his house and he should not have been there in the first place?

I think Ron had some kind of “business” deal going on with JO, involving guns and drugs, and reneged on a promise to repay him. Joe I think is capable of violence, and his family members seem to think he has some mental issues. But if Joe was responsible for Haleigh’s death, I don’t understand why RC wouldn’t have confronted him right away or told LE there was someone who had a grudge against him. He could also have driven up to Tennessee to confront him, he would have had his address because of Misty, but he did none of these things.

The fact that he seemed to defend Joe (ie, saying they didn’t have a fight over a gun etc) indicates to me that he already knows what happened to Haleigh and that he either doesn’t think JO is involved, or knows that he was, and the reasons for it.

Hank believes that Joe is involved (because that is what TC told him). In one of the tapes he said that several of Joe's relatives have killed people and that they are all insane, and that we Croslins' are just stupid, we don't kill people. Hank is aware that these visits are recorded, so probably wanted to let authorities know that (in his opinion) Tommy only got into this mess because of his foolishness, no other reason.

On the same tape he also asks Tommy what the fight was about that they all got into at his (HC) house and Tommy’s response was that “Misty done said it – I can’t say nothing, but Misty done said it”. What’s that about – what did Misty say? And why can't Tommy say anything?

What I don’t understand is that if “Joe did it” why would all the Cummings cover up for him. That is what makes no sense to me (not that anything much makes sense about any of this, but we do our best to wade through all the lies and confusion).

you posted some good thoughts here, & they've got me thinking. Why would any of them cover for any single person, beside themselves? especially this long? I can't imagine a plausible scenario, where they all share equal culpability. Since Joe is doing the least amount of talking, I'm assuming that he holds the answers. He's the only one, as far as I can see, who would have nothing to gain by talking. Maybe this big cover-up was created by different personal motivations, & maybe after awhile, the lies got so big, that there was no turning back, (without coming clean on their own crimes), & they're all just sitting around, waiting for someone else to jump 1st. Say, Ron was motivated to lie, because of his drug & gun activity, & his desire to keep his name clean. Say Misty was motivated to lie because she was gone that night, with another man, & also because she was in on the plot to double cross Ron in the gun theft. Maybe they were banking on Haleigh being returned, & didn't see the necessity in exposing their own sorry behavior. & once they realized that Haleigh wasn't coming home, they felt it was too late to back up, start over, & come clean...rationalizing, that owning up to criminal behavior, wouldn't bring back a dead Haleigh. so...they continued the facade, all the while protecting the actual perp(s), by association. just a few rambling thoughts. & seeing what these people are truly capable of, I think it's likely that their criminal behavior included more than guns, theft, drugs, etc... & THAT may be some of the stuff that Ron is getting ironed out, for his deal... immunity from his other crimes. Also, this sort of explains why Ron, TN, etc...sheltered Misty. By, comparrison, her own crimes were minimal, & if she told the truth, Ron would get in the most trouble, so Misty followed their script. But if this is true, it's more than a little ironic, because Ron is the one working on the deal.

 

[dodie20]

also, if this is true, I think that Misty either knew the truth, or suspected it, so she knew that she wasn't protecting Ron from a murder charge. & she went along with the script, because it was easy. That would explain her pointing her finger early on, at Joe & Tommy, (in a roundabout way), & also her dismissive attitude towards Ron, in the recorded call with Chelsea. By this time, her lies had gotten bigger than Ron's crimes. & I do believe that Ron, also knew the truth, but he put himself above justice for Haleigh.

 

[Whisperer]

With no cell towers in Satsuma, tracking would be impossible...isn't that just peachy...grrrr.?

 

[Whisperer]

LE says the evidence found at the MH that night is not consistent with misty's chain of events.

If almost everything she said that occurred from 5:00pm to 3:00am is a lie because they have evidence, then why not arrest her?

 

[krkrjx]

you posted some good thoughts here, & they've got me thinking. Why would any of them cover for any single person, beside themselves? especially this long? I can't imagine a plausible scenario, where they all share equal culpability. Since Joe is doing the least amount of talking, I'm assuming that he holds the answers. He's the only one, as far as I can see, who would have nothing to gain by talking. Maybe this big cover-up was created by different personal motivations, & maybe after awhile, the lies got so big, that there was no turning back, (without coming clean on their own crimes), & they're all just sitting around, waiting for someone else to jump 1st. Say, Ron was motivated to lie, because of his drug & gun activity, & his desire to keep his name clean. Say Misty was motivated to lie because she was gone that night, with another man, & also because she was in on the plot to double cross Ron in the gun theft. Maybe they were banking on Haleigh being returned, & didn't see the necessity in exposing their own sorry behavior. & once they realized that Haleigh wasn't coming home, they felt it was too late to back up, start over, & come clean...rationalizing, that owning up to criminal behavior, wouldn't bring back a dead Haleigh. so...they continued the facade, all the while protecting the actual perp(s), by association. just a few rambling thoughts. & seeing what these people are truly capable of, I think it's likely that their criminal behavior included more than guns, theft, drugs, etc... & THAT may be some of the stuff that Ron is getting ironed out, for his deal... immunity from his other crimes. Also, this sort of explains why Ron, TN, etc...sheltered Misty. By, comparrison, her own crimes were minimal, & if she told the truth, Ron would get in the most trouble, so Misty followed their script. But if this is true, it's more than a little ironic, because Ron is the one working on the deal.

I have never really looked for a motive for the crime against Haleigh. I have always felt that if her demise was at the hands of one or more of our players that it was not planned, meaning there need not be a motive. I feel that if there was motive, the crime was planned and carried out by someone other than any of our players.....perhaps by someone Ron and/or Misty crossed in some way that led the perp to seek revenge on a very personal level.

I agree that Haleigh's demise may have been secondary to some sleazy activities that our players were involved in. If Haleigh was injured or killed in the process, they all decided there was no point in coming clean about anything, since coming clean would certainly get them in trouble, and why do that when if it will not help Haleigh. They all may have motive for the cover-up, IMO. And the longer they remained quiet the hotter the water got for them with LE. So they tried to lie their way out, but the lies only mired them deeper. But now RC is working on a deal; he is talking, likely not about Haleigh, but about some of his activities or the activities of others in the community. I think the reason RC might get a deal while the others will not is because RC is the one who has the most information of value to the SA.

I do not, however, feel JO looks guilty just because he has said the least. JO said he wasn't there and he didn't do it; if he truly was not there and did not do it, what more can he say? If he is or was aware of any criminal activity by any of the players, he may or may not have told LE about it; we just don't know.

I will not say JO was not involved in either Haleigh's demise or the cover-up; I just don't know what to think about JO but, at this point, I do not see any evidence that points toward JO as the perp. None. What he looks like, or the fact that he left town right away, means nothing! His leaving on that date was pre-planned, so it does not raise a red flag with me. Also, JO did not "lawyer up" during the Shell Harbor search, as has been said. Reality is, a lot of really ugly accusations had been made of JO even before Shell Harbor. If I were in his shoes I would want a lawyer by my side! Being accused as JO has been by the players and in the media--with not one shred of evidence to back up the accusations--would be pretty darn scary, IMO. So, JO retaining a lawyer does not automatically tell me he has something to hide.

 

[Whisperer]

Misty failed a lie detector test. She has kge..we all know that. She knows what happened to Haleigh. IF she did not harm Haleigh, there is nothing that should hold her back from talking, including protecting anyone.

She has and owns responsibility for what happened to Haleigh. Ron must believe he is also responsible because he has protected misty through this whole sad story. Ron is such an oddball, it makes it difficult to put this together. Normal reaction would be to call 911 on his way to killing JO.

There is also a problem with the Chelsea, Timmy, JO van thing. If JO was sleeping nearby, chelsea should have heard him leave. Mommy's are typically light sleepers. Is it possible that timmy is involved in some way and that is why misty is so mum. Are both brothers in this mess?

Can somebody tell me if they know what time timmy JO and chelsea left their home in CC to drive to Satsuma the morning of Feb10? They had to wake and dress the children, I suppose that could take some time.

 

[Whisperer]

I was under the impression, JO had lawyered up from week one. That is why LE has never been able to get information from him.

He and rc were the first to get lawyers is what I recall. These two are the most paranoid of ALL the players though. Ron doesn't seem to leave home w/o an attorney. JO has had many legal problems himself.

We have got to go back and see if it is true that JO was planning to leave on feb 10....I'm not so sure about that anymore.

My other problem is that rc was grieving that morningl. He spoke in the past tense and had no hope of his daughter being alive. Why would that be?

 

[Whisperer]

IF rc knew that JO/misty harmed Haleigh, why wouldn't he retaliate? Either rc is insane himself or he is involved somehow or both. RC's entire behavior is odd. That is what throws me off.

 

[krkrjx]

IF rc knew that JO/misty harmed Haleigh, why wouldn't he retaliate? Either rc is insane himself or he is involved somehow or both. RC's entire behavior is odd. That is what throws me off.

That's the main reason I do not think JO did the crime. I believe RC would have gone after him and at the very least beaten the truth out of him. I also feel RC would have done the same to MC or TC. RC not taking retaliatory action speaks volumes to me. If he wanted to smash JO's hands for stealing from him, one can only imagine what he would want to do to JO for harming Haleigh. So, IMO none of the players are involved and the perp is a still-unknown person, or they are all involved including RC. JMO, though I am sure I will regret voicing it :redface:

 

[Whisperer]

The picture is much more clear w/o rc in it. His behavior is so outrageous that it keeps drawing us in. He complicates everything. There is no logic to what he does. I've tried putting myself in his position and I know if what he said were true about JO and the threats that I would have done serious or worse damage by 4:15am 2/10.

Who did rc call? Did he call anyone that would have had Haleigh? Not that I have heard? He should have been calling tommy and timmy first to find JO...which BTW would have been easy. What does rc do? He calls his mommy and his GMA. My first thoughts would not have gone there, that's for sure, UNLESS I thought they had Haleigh. By the time LE arrives, rc behaves as if Haleigh is dead. He is on the revenge path verbally, but doesn't move.

The guy acts insane but I still don't think LE is looking at him. It really seems they are after JO, misty and tommy. We will know a little more after tomorrow....if I dare to hope again. Everytime I do, the courts throw us a curve..

 

[dodie20]

Misty failed a lie detector test. She has kge..we all know that. She knows what happened to Haleigh. IF she did not harm Haleigh, there is nothing that should hold her back from talking, including protecting anyone.

She has and owns responsibility for what happened to Haleigh. Ron must believe he is also responsible because he has protected misty through this whole sad story. Ron is such an oddball, it makes it difficult to put this together. Normal reaction would be to call 911 on his way to killing JO.

There is also a problem with the Chelsea, Timmy, JO van thing. If JO was sleeping nearby, chelsea should have heard him leave. Mommy's are typically light sleepers. Is it possible that timmy is involved in some way and that is why misty is so mum. Are both brothers in this mess?

Can somebody tell me if they know what time timmy JO and chelsea left their home in CC to drive to Satsuma the morning of Feb10? They had to wake and dress the children, I suppose that could take some time.

I do think Misty would protect Timmy & vice versa. But to this point? IDK. Them leaving the state, but not coming back when the crud hit the fan, points to Timmy's involvement. Plus, Chelsea's later statements, just don't mesh. so, I think Timmy was involved, but not the killer. IMO, Lindsey issued Tommy an ultimatum. Stop protecting Misty. IMO, this felt like a last ditch effort, to give Tommy, the benefit of the doubt. but he came up with the Joe story, instead. It's MOO, that Misty's demeanor points to her not hurting or killing Haleigh, but thinking it was ok to lie for others. That doesn't make much sense, but Misty doesn't make much sense. She said & did some outlandish things, that should've caused Tommy & Lindsey's wrath, but basically, there was no reaction. IMO, Tommy & Lindsey were bending over backwards, to keep her happy. not the other way around. & when Misty told her parents to worry about her 1st & over Tommy, I think that's what she was alluding to. This is hard to explain, but I'm gonna try. Tommy being responsible for Haleigh's death, IMO, makes the most sense. If he was responsible, I don't think Misty was there, & he was counting on her not knowing for sure, to keep him safe. He knew that she wasn't the brightest kid around, & he also knew that she & Ron had their own share of secrets, which he could blab, & he was counting on her ignorance, her own bad behavior, & her loyalty to her parents & Timmy to protect him. It's my opinion, that Tommy opperates from the edge. When he told cops that Misty wasn't home that night, I think he KNEW that to be the truth, but was careful to keep his involvement outside the door. He's a cagey one, that Tommy, but he has still managed to get himself into a whole heap of trouble. I hope this makes sense to you.

 

[krkrjx]

The picture is much more clear w/o rc in it. His behavior is so outrageous that it keeps drawing us in. He complicates everything. There is no logic to what he does. I've tried putting myself in his position and I know if what he said were true about JO and the threats that I would have done serious or worse damage by 4:15am 2/10.

(snipped)

The guy acts insane but I still don't think LE is looking at him. It really seems they are after JO, misty and tommy. We will know a little more after tomorrow....if I dare to hope again. Everytime I do, the courts throw us a curve..

LE is not looking at RC and never has looked at him. But that does not mean he is innocent.

I wonder why TN made the comment some months ago about RC having a very high IQ. Because frankly, I just don't see it. If he were so smart he would have known from the get-go that Misty was hiding something, possibly something that might help solve Haleigh's disappearance. One would think an innocent father would want that info to come out ASAP, yet RC does little to nothing to get Misty to talk, and actually on numerous occasions gives her the words to say or speaks for her. (Greta's show would be just one example.)

The case is still unsolved and may remain that way forever. Yet, LE does not look at Ron. :waitasec:

 

[dodie20]

The picture is much more clear w/o rc in it. His behavior is so outrageous that it keeps drawing us in. He complicates everything. There is no logic to what he does. I've tried putting myself in his position and I know if what he said were true about JO and the threats that I would have done serious or worse damage by 4:15am 2/10.

Who did rc call? Did he call anyone that would have had Haleigh? Not that I have heard? He should have been calling tommy and timmy first to find JO...which BTW would have been easy. What does rc do? He calls his mommy and his GMA. My first thoughts would not have gone there, that's for sure, UNLESS I thought they had Haleigh. By the time LE arrives, rc behaves as if Haleigh is dead. He is on the revenge path verbally, but doesn't move.

The guy acts insane but I still don't think LE is looking at him. It really seems they are after JO, misty and tommy. We will know a little more after tomorrow....if I dare to hope again. Everytime I do, the courts throw us a curve..

as hard as it has been for me to go there, I have to admit that Ron not being directly resposible, makes the most sense. But that in no way excuses his later behavior. He & TN have done nothing but muddy the waters & hinder this investigation. It's like he wanted Haleigh to fade into a distant memory, & for everybody to just butt out, & mind their own business, so he could get on with his life. with Misty. shameful. This is MOO, & just a theory. & this is another reason I don't think Misty was involved. I think Ron & TN either knew or figured out what happened, knew that Misty wasn't responsible, so they felt ok keeping her around, to help cover for Ron & to help keep his image clean(er). Because as much as I don't like TN's behavior, I don't think she'd want her granddaughter's murderer, marrying her son & raising her grandson.

 

[dodie20]

That's the main reason I do not think JO did the crime. I believe RC would have gone after him and at the very least beaten the truth out of him. I also feel RC would have done the same to MC or TC. RC not taking retaliatory action speaks volumes to me. If he wanted to smash JO's hands for stealing from him, one can only imagine what he would want to do to JO for harming Haleigh. So, IMO none of the players are involved and the perp is a still-unknown person, or they are all involved including RC. JMO, though I am sure I will regret voicing it :redface:

I don't give Ron, that much credit. I think Ron looks out for Ron. if he could've gone after the killer & gotten away with it, & with his image intact, he would have. If he wasn't responsible for Haleigh's death, it's MOO, that he didn't go after her killer, because he didn't want to get in trouble, or have his name & parenting, dragged in the mud.

 

[krkrjx]

I don't give Ron, that much credit. I think Ron looks out for Ron. if he could've gone after the killer & gotten away with it, & with his image intact, he would have. If he wasn't responsible for Haleigh's death, it's MOO, that he didn't go after her killer, because he didn't want to get in trouble, or have his name & parenting, dragged in the mud.

Then you are giving him too much credit, IMO.

I think there were numerous times when RC lost his temper in the weeks and months after the disappearance, when he could have without restraint harmed someone (TC and MC were within reach if he didn't want to go all the way to Tenn.) but he didn't. And after all his big talk about shooting the perp, not caring if he went to prison for it and not caring if it was on recording...well, I for one would have understood RC beating the truth out of his suspected perp. It's hard not to see that RC has acted in ways that made it look like he did not want the truth to come out, and that I cannot understand. It just makes no sense for him to do that, especially if he is totally innocent of harming Haleigh. JMO.

Decapitating rats and numerous instances of battery do little for one's image, but do much to drag one's name through the mud, IMO.

 

[Whisperer]

Rn is a wanna-be-, billy-barney bad azz and he is nothing w/o a gun. All of his machismo lies within whatever gun he carries. He claimed to have a gun inside the residence.....the question is did he know where it really was? Safely stashed away at Tommy's? I say yes. When LE wanted it and couldn't find it; he told them it must have been stolen and he would get it. He did. We don't have a timeline on that though.

He knew instantly that Haleigh was not recoverable, imo. What made him come to that conclusion and resolve? I will never understand this if he wasn't involved. ANY person in his shoes would be questioning the heck out of misty and never letting up. ANY person would drive over to the last person they had a fight with and demand answers....but not him.

Logic brings normal people to say he must have harmed Haleigh. Logic has no place in this crime. If it did, it would be solved. These people are from a sub-culture that I do not understand and struggling to figure it out. Drugs, alcohol, sex and guns are their joys in life and they don't let much else get in their way. They don't have any rules. Women and children will do what they say or else! All of the men in this group have had an TRO or been charged w/assault. They think nothing of hitting their women or their children...IMO.

Did rc go too far? Possibly...but LE doesn't seem to look that way.
Did JO go into a rage and kill Haleigh? Possibly and it looks like LE is looking there
Did Misty kill Haleigh? Possibly...
Did Timmy kill Haleigh? possilbly but why? Strikes me as a person w/kge
Did tommy kill Haleigh? possibly but why? Strikes me as a person w/kge

LE has three of the four/five in jail and one more they are trying to put in jail. They have rc in there for a reason, I must remember that (though at times I forget). There is no way they would keep an innocent father of a murdered child locked up like this UNLESS he has information about that night. They apparently do not have much sympathy for Ronald Cummings.

I wonder if tomorrow will bring us any closer....

 

[dodie20]

Then you are giving him too much credit, IMO.

I think there were numerous times when RC lost his temper in the weeks and months after the disappearance, when he could have without restraint harmed someone (TC and MC were within reach if he didn't want to go all the way to Tenn.) but he didn't. And after all his big talk about shooting the perp, not caring if he went to prison for it and not caring if it was on recording...well, I for one would have understood RC beating the truth out of his suspected perp. It's hard not to see that RC has acted in ways that made it look like he did not want the truth to come out, and that I cannot understand. It just makes no sense for him to do that, especially if he is totally innocent of harming Haleigh. JMO.

Decapitating rats and numerous instances of battery do little for one's image, but do much to drag one's name through the mud, IMO.

if you factor in the theory, (which I do), that Ron puts himself above all else, then him not going after the killer does make sense. I think he puts his physical & legal well being, over justice for his daughter. That's just my opinion, but it's how I feel. Also, I think the theory that since Ron didn't go after the killer(s), HE, himself, must be involved, is misleading. It's MOO, that Ron isn't such a tough guy, & he wouldn't want to start something, that he wasn't positive he could finish, without coming out unscathed. The only stories that we've really heard about his toughness, (besides his own threats), are that he beat teenaged girls. Right after this happened, he moved back in with GGS. To me, that points to him knowing that he was in way over his head, & that he wanted no part of that crazy ****, & that he was trying to keep safe. kind of a surrender. & the thing with the rat? how tough does somebody have to be, to decapitate a little rat? It's more gross, than anything. & if I'm not mistaken, Tommy didn't file that initial report. I think a neighbor witnessed the delivery, & got that ball to rolling. It's MOO, that Ron was pretty confident that Tommy wouldn't squeal on him. But even if Tommy did call the cops, nothing really happened. & it's MOO, that the fight with Misty's family, that preceded the rat, wasn't about Ron's toughness either. It was my impression that GGS & Misty saved his hide. & then when he went to jail? it was reported, that he cried off & on, all night. so much for Ron's toughness.

 

[Maia]

I have followed little HaLeigh’s story locally from day one, and I, like everyone here on WS, have also had a different theory almost daily. This case involves the most bizarre twists, turns and angles, and group of characters I’ve ever heard of. IMO, if ALL of the top rated crime fiction novelists were to get together I do not believe they could collectively come up with anything even remotely close to this.

When HaLeigh first disappeared, and as the case started to unfold, I believed she was kidnapped for retaliatory reasons against RC, either for some double-cross in a gun/drug deal or for a serious act of violence he had committed against someone. I haven’t heard of anyone checking on his comings and goings during the time between him throwing MC out and when she supposedly returned (not sure exactly when that was). If LE checked, they have not shared it, to my knowledge. MC stated she was there when the A/C came and if IIRC, she also stated that she went outside while he was there--not wanting to be in the house alone with him (?). Is it possible that he could have unlocked the door while she was outside (either for himself, or someone else, to come back later) and due to the state she was in after her wild weekend, she just didn’t notice it? According to PCSO, A/C guy was cleared within an hour after they were called to the scene (seems pretty quick to me), but IMO just because he has an alibi doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t in the know. I’m not sure I still believe this to be what happened but it does make a little sense. This could account for RC’s and MC’s actions…him feeling responsible because he would know at least the why and maybe/maybe not the who, and MC feeling responsible because she left the guy alone in the house and didn’t have enough sense to check the lock. However, it doesn’t explain the other’s actions, unless they were involved in RC’s bad deal to begin with and are covering for him and covering for MC because she’s family. I don’t know…everyday I wake up with a different theory and I know with everything that we have learned in the last 18 months regarding all the players, this is probably the least likely scenario. After spending the last 2 weeks reading everything posted in this thread (parts 1 & 2), I do have some other theories, which, if I don’t get beat up too badly on this one, I will throw them out there later for discussion. Please be kind; I’m just getting my feet wet with posting.

 

[Maia]

Also, In one of LE's statements after the St.John's search they said there were "Several POI" So, could it be that there was several people there dressed in black? Could TN and GGMS be two of those several POI?
I had also read an article where it said that we would be surprised as to who ONE of the POI were. We have had Misty, Ron, Tommy, and Joe under the radar as the main POI. I would not be surprised if TN, GGMS, Timmy C, or Chelsea Croslin were in the group of LE's POI. JMO though...
[/B]

ITA!! Could it be since LE have seemed to not focus on RC that they believe we, the public, will be surprised if he is the one responsible (which IMO, he is)? But I don't think he is the only surprise...IMVHO, I believe TN or GGMS will be the big surprise. I'm leaning more towards TN because she is the one that supposedly was franticly tracking MC down to babysit. Why was it soo important for her to get MC in that mh that night? :waitasec: JMO