George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[angelainwi]

GF was asked if "he was on something right now" because he was "acting erratic" shortly before he said he was hooping. It is in the context for me.

I interpret totally differently. I think he was trying to explain the foam around his mouth as some kind of excessive sweat one may get if they were just working out hard...if anything I think he was trying to deny that he had used any kind of drugs in any kind of way

 

[MsBetsy]

This is where I found the reference to Mr Floyd admitting to "hooping" drugs. Scroll down to page 7 of the transcript:

https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Floyd Transcript 2.pdf

He did say he had been hooping earlier but I don't think the method of intake matters as much as the officer's response to the possibility that he was overdosing. They didn't do anything to help him, they actually caused more harm by putting him in the prone position and making it more difficult for him to breathe. You don't have to be a police officer to know how dangerous their actions were.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hooping

Urban Dictionary: Hooping

in context, it doesn’t make sense to me- it would be the equivalent of “yeah, I was smoking crack earlier” ...I can’t imagine anyone offering that up as an excuse for present concerns.

 

[margarita25]

New court docs say George Floyd had "fatal level" of fentanyl in his system | kare11.com

Thanks.

Per above:

*Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his system.

"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

In another new document, Baker said, "That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

But then Baker added, "I am not saying this killed him."“

[...]

The new documents say Floyd had a "heavy heart" and "at least one artery was approximately 75% blocked."

-

Well, IANAD, IANAL, but the medical expert testimony should be very interesting.


*There certainly appears to be many factors here which could have been contributing; however, IMO DC’s knee was THE nail in the coffin, no matter what else was occurring, hence the “substantial causal factor”... Plain and simple, cutting off the air (blood).

 

[MsBetsy]

he had more than enough to kill him

I don't think that's true. The ME said he had more in his system than a chronic pain patient would have. It doesn't take long to develop tolerance for opioids. One person can safely take 300 mg of morphine per day, while a person with no tolerance can overdose on just 50 mg.

He had been using opioids for at least three years, according to his girlfriend. He had overdosed before, but in that situation he recieved medical attention. We'll never know if he would have lived had he recieved medical help instead of having his neck and back kneeled on for nine minutes.

Imo

 

[Weki]

I think if there was any merit to the taking of drugs intra-rectally, state would’ve asked his girlfriend if he/they ever did that.

 

[CrimeAway]

in context, it doesn’t make sense to me- it would be the equivalent of “yeah, I was smoking crack earlier” ...I can’t imagine anyone offering that up as an excuse for present concerns.

Years ago, I would never have thought that people would never admit drug usage directly to a cop on the street! However, I now know that does indeed happen.

 

[MsBetsy]

I interpret totally differently. I think he was trying to explain the foam around his mouth as some kind of excessive sweat one may get if they were just working out hard...if anything I think he was trying to deny that he had used any kind of drugs in any kind of way

I think he did say no at first. It's hard to tell if he was comprehending anything being said to him at that time.

 

[CrimeAway]

I think if there was any merit to the taking of drugs intra-rectally, state would’ve asked his girlfriend if he/they ever did that.

I disagree, because the prosecution would seek to minimize the importance of any drug use in Mr Floyd's death.
Admission of drug use, in particular rectally, could bolster the defense's case that DC's actions were not causative of death.

Very interested to see how this plays out.

RIP George Floyd

 

[MsBetsy]

Years ago, I would never have thought that people would never admit drug usage directly to a cop on the street! However, I now know that does indeed happen.

It's kind of like when an officer asks someone if they had anything to drink and the person says they "only had a couple beers earlier," when it's obvious they're intoxicated.

 

[margarita25]

Well, the outcome of the of this case will surely be, monumental. Like I said before, I had my head so far up Covid’s arse I wasn’t able to follow all the facts last year, so I realize some of the repetition may be irritating to some.

My bottom line predication/thoughts/assessments: IMO the evidence presented so far is very damning, but as others mentioned, all it takes is some reasonable doubt, and as we know, people have different opinions.

What are the possible outcomes for retrial, mistrial, hung jury, shoot we could be here a long time. Who knows.

It's kind of like when an officer asks someone if they had anything to drink and the person says they "only had a couple beers earlier," when it's obvious they're intoxicated.

(hahaha, that used to be the joke with officers on the show COPS...I loved that show...”Bad Boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you.“ Inner Circle.)

(eta: spark it up / reggae MON

eta: it’s weird and unsettling though watching seeing the cops arresting people for “pot roaches”, living in Colorado and all jmo

 

[margarita25]

Dbm consolidate

 

[CrimeAway]

I did a quick search to learn more about the relevance of the amount of fentanyl (11ng/ml) found in GF's blood from the hospital. Here is what I have found so far.

Source for screenshot 1:
Multiple Fentanyl Overdoses — New Haven, Connecticut, June 23, 2016

Source for screenshot 2:
Fatalities caused by novel opioids: a review

 

[missy1974]

I don't think that's true. The ME said he had more in his system than a chronic pain patient would have. It doesn't take long to develop tolerance for opioids. One person can safely take 300 mg of morphine per day, while a person with no tolerance can overdose on just 50 mg.

He had been using opioids for at least three years, according to his girlfriend. He had overdosed before, but in that situation he recieved medical attention. We'll never know if he would have lived had he recieved medical help instead of having his neck and back kneeled on for nine minutes.

Imo

Didn't Nelson ask the doc this about fentanyl today? if you can build up a tolerance, and the doc said no?

ETA: I went back and listened... he asked, just because someone has a history of opiod abuse, does that mean fentanyl can't kill them? Doc said no.

 

[sds71]

I wonder if William Smythe is going to take the stand tomorrow also.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

His autopsy didn’t just reveal fentanyl:

VI. Toxicology (see attached report for full details; testing
performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at
9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine)
A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:
1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;
Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL
6. Cotinine positive
7. Caffeine positive
B. Blood volatiles: negative for ethanol, methanol,
isopropanol, or acetone
C. Urine drug screen: presumptive positive for cannabinoids,
amphetamines, and fentanyl/metabolite
D. Urine drug screen confirmation: morphine (free) 86 ng/mL

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hen...lic-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if William Smythe is going to take the stand tomorrow also.

(I have that name on my notes, stand by for eta, not “Estimated Time of Arrival“, but “Edited to Add“ hahaha standby for ETA )

ETA:
From Day 4 notes / these are VERY rough as I mentioned:

“Material from Lane- Piece of paper with name of one person in vehicle that he had gotten - Shawanda Hill“

Other was ID card - William Smythe”

eta2: Said by DP, iirc

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think hooping refers to shooting hoops - basketball

George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

 

[MsBetsy]

Didn't Nelson ask the doc this about fentanyl today? if you can build up a tolerance, and the doc said no?

I've never heard of anyone not building up a tolerance to opioids. That's why they need more and more over a period of time for it to be effective. (Or to get a high for recreational use.) I didn't hear that question, though.

I think the starting dose for a fentanyl patch is 12mcg and the highest dose is 100 mcg. I have no idea how that compares to how much was found in Floyd's system.

The problem with buying pills illegally is that there is no way to know how much fentanyl is added to it, or even that it has any fentanyl at all. That's why so many people die from overdoses. Imo

 

[Cubby]

I think what happens is someone with a legit script for themselves takes some and sell some. Pharmaceutical pills have a street value and some people utilize that to supplement their income.