George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

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Dr. Tobin also made a very important point today. When questioned about lack of bruising on the neck of Mr. Floyd. Dr. Tobin testified he would not expect to see bruising in that time. Bruising happens as blood goes to an area of impact...but DC clearly stopped the blood flow in that area, actually would cause blood to exit that area with knee pressure. We know that blood transports oxygen to the brain and DC shut down blood transport IMO.
 
I searched, but all I found so far was an article from one of the local Fox stations that linked to this document

https://static.fox9.com/www.fox9.com/content/uploads/2020/08/Exhibit-4.pdf

You have a good night :)
I think Kittythehare just found it. He actually said it was higher than what a chronic pain patient would take. I thought it was a broad statement because people with chronic pain take a wide range of doses and we don't know what Floyd's tolerance was. Imo
 
I think Kittythehare just found it. He actually said it was higher than what a chronic pain patient would take. I thought it was a broad statement because people with chronic pain take a wide range of doses and we don't know what Floyd's tolerance was. Imo
All we know is that he was not manifesting typical fentanyl poisoning.. Or anything close to it.
 
Fact check link.
PolitiFact - No, autopsy doesn’t say George Floyd died of overdose

Two autopsies were completed after Floyd died in May 2020, following what video footage shows was roughly nine minutes spent pinned under Chauvin’s knee. The two reports found different causes of death, but neither ruled that Floyd died because of an overdose.

An independent autopsy ordered by Floyd’s family ruled Floyd’s death a homicide. The two doctors who conducted the autopsy concluded that Floyd died of asphyxiation, or suffocation.

The Hennepin County medical examiner’s office also ruled that Floyd died in a homicide. But it said the cause of his death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law-enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression," which occurred while Floyd was being "restrained."
Thanks for finding that! Now maybe I can go to sleep.
 
I think Kittythehare just found it. He actually said it was higher than what a chronic pain patient would take. I thought it was a broad statement because people with chronic pain take a wide range of doses and we don't know what Floyd's tolerance was. Imo
Simply put we have zero idea what GF ingested and what his reaction was. GF may have done absolutely nothing wrong but knowing his copilot or ride maybe the other way around we have no idea what his copilot and ex girlfriend had in their possession and what they gave him. Maybe he didn’t even know what was given to him. Shady street drugs never lead to a good outcome. I don’t necessarily fault GF but believe there are OP who may have led to his death. Wth was in whatever he took or ingested? Maurice will never tell because he is the source if whatever the drugs were. IMO
 
So...I commented last night about Chauvins small stature and said I could toss my 135lb son off me easily. Tonight I had him strap Velcro around my wrists and laid on the ground like GF. I still tossed him off like nothing. Then had my wife and daughter put all their weight on my hips and legs and it was harder but still tossed my son. Im 5'10" @175lbs, I'm n0t a big guy but in reasonable shape. Obviously smaller than GF.

Obviously my test is anecdotal but whoever said weight doesn't matter is wrong IMHO. Just try it and you'll see someone Chauvins size is no match for a guy like GF. I stand by my previous observation.

I think what I was inferring in my original post was that it didn’t seem to me to matter whether the police officer with a knee on your neck for over 9 mins weighed 140lb or 240lb. The outcome is not going to be in your favour.
 
So...I commented last night about Chauvins small stature and said I could toss my 135lb son off me easily. Tonight I had him strap Velcro around my wrists and laid on the ground like GF. I still tossed him off like nothing. Then had my wife and daughter put all their weight on my hips and legs and it was harder but still tossed my son. Im 5'10" @175lbs, I'm n0t a big guy but in reasonable shape. Obviously smaller than GF.

Obviously my test is anecdotal but whoever said weight doesn't matter is wrong IMHO. Just try it and you'll see someone Chauvins size is no match for a guy like GF. I stand by my previous observation.


Thanks for the experiment to show he probably wasn't resisting, even from when he first went prone!
 
My guess? He won't testify. Too risky. I agree with this:

The prosecution will put in its entire case again – through its cross of Mr. Chauvin, not to mention his bad behaviors in other situations...

Will Derek Chauvin speak at his trial in George Floyd's death?

Sampsell-Jones said "some clients really want to tell their story, some are afraid to testify, and some just do what they're lawyer advises." He said it's impossible to tell what category Chauvin is in.

Joseph Daly, a professor at Mitchell Hamline School of Law, said it would be "extremely risky" for Chauvin to testify. "The main danger of him testifying is the prosecution will put in its entire case again – through its cross of Mr. Chauvin, not to mention his bad behaviors in other situations," Daly said.

There have been 17 complaints filed with Minneapolis police about Chauvin. The judge allowed only two of them to be admitted as evidence. (It's common for judges to make such rulings on what evidence can be introduced in a trial.)

upload_2021-4-9_5-43-16.png

Whether Chauvin ends up testifying may depend on how his defense attorney, Eric Nelson, handles cross-examination of the medical experts, said Mary Moriarty, former Hennepin County chief public defender.

The medical experts will be key to the case because prosecutors argue Floyd died from Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, while the defense argues Floyd died as a result of the drugs in his system and underlying medical conditions.

Moriarty said it's possible he may testify "if he can add something to their case, (like) his perspective on what he did." His testimony could end up being a last-ditch effort for the defense at the end, or an effort to humanize him, she said.
 
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My SIL is a manager of a coal mine who have random drug and alcohol tests for workers and he tells me that THC can be detected up to two weeks after using.

Back in the 90's, it was a *what?* moment, when folks that did pot did not stop prior to employment drug testing. Everyone knew it would show up for weeks afterwards, and *scratches head* why a person who had a blood (or was it urine??) test wouldn't or couldn't just not toke for a few days to get past such. As was common then to do such. These days, dunno. (lol, 70's terminology)
 
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Today's testimony was very damagingNow two aspects of this case are distilling out IMOO. Intent. The other day, we heard so much testimony from the defense about how DC's actions were aligned with how he was continually reassessing the event and his response. IMO, the bystanders did all the reassessment for him. Someone telling him what the neck hold was physically doing and someone that worked as an EMT for his city telling him that the individual was dying with his actions. DC did not reassess what he was doing IMO. Today, an expert witness showed how DC used his brute strength on an incapacitated victim. very damaging as to intent.

Keep in mind, that the middle charge does NOT require intent at all MOO

Heck, I keep forgetting the charges as the top one may not require intent either.. lemme go back and see if I can find and do an ETA

ETA: NONE are intentional MOO

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.

NOT APPLICABLE SO SNIPPED

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com

NOTE: And keep in mind the changes that the prosecution has asked for during the charge to the jury to help explain such in more laymans terms which has been listed many times. I have not seen an answer by the court yet, has anyone???
 
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This was what I was speaking to as to the Prosecution asking to change wording of the charge from a previous post:

STATE’S AMENDED PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTION REGARDING THIRD-DEGREE MURDER

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...20-12646/ProposedJuryInstructions04012021.pdf

part of above

"The State hereby amends its proposed jury instruction regarding third-degree murder in light of the Minnesota Supreme Court’s decision on March 31, 2021 in State v. Coleman, No. A19-0708, __ N.W.2d __, 2021 WL 1201738 (Minn. Mar. 31, 2021). "
" It indicated that “[o]ne way to accurately state the law in a jury instruction” regarding third-degree murder “could be to use the phrase ‘but it must have been committed withan indifference to the loss of human life that the eminently dangerous act could cause.” Id. (emphasis in original). "

That approach, the Court explained, “would eliminate the unnecessary and confusing ‘reckless or wanton’ language, and removes the ‘with the knowledge that someone may be killed’ language that we have held materially misstates the required mental state.”

State remedy in the attached is

 
My guess? He won't testify. Too risky. I agree with this:

The prosecution will put in its entire case again – through its cross of Mr. Chauvin, not to mention his bad behaviors in other situations...

Will Derek Chauvin speak at his trial in George Floyd's death?

Sampsell-Jones said "some clients really want to tell their story, some are afraid to testify, and some just do what they're lawyer advises." He said it's impossible to tell what category Chauvin is in.

Joseph Daly, a professor at Mitchell Hamline School of Law, said it would be "extremely risky" for Chauvin to testify. "The main danger of him testifying is the prosecution will put in its entire case again – through its cross of Mr. Chauvin, not to mention his bad behaviors in other situations," Daly said.

There have been 17 complaints filed with Minneapolis police about Chauvin. The judge allowed only two of them to be admitted as evidence. (It's common for judges to make such rulings on what evidence can be introduced in a trial.)

View attachment 292007

Whether Chauvin ends up testifying may depend on how his defense attorney, Eric Nelson, handles cross-examination of the medical experts, said Mary Moriarty, former Hennepin County chief public defender.

The medical experts will be key to the case because prosecutors argue Floyd died from Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, while the defense argues Floyd died as a result of the drugs in his system and underlying medical conditions.

Moriarty said it's possible he may testify "if he can add something to their case, (like) his perspective on what he did." His testimony could end up being a last-ditch effort for the defense at the end, or an effort to humanize him, she said.

INMO, Chauvin would not be a likeable person on the stand. His whole attitude is "cocky". As if this trial is just one big bother to him. Have not seen a lot of actual contrition.

Lane, on the other hand, looks like he genuinely was not only traumatized by the situation, but also very remorseful. Chauvin could try a bit harder to show something...
 
I'm new to watching trials, Prosecution hasn't rested so they're still on, right?
What else could we expect from them?
 

“You're trying to distill this down in such a reductive way that you're losing all of the facts that are at issue in this case. So every time this defense counsel tries to raise hypotheticals that have nothing to do with the facts, he invites a new witness — not a fact witness, but an expert witness — to now revisit and remind the jury of what happened to George Floyd in his final moments”

Does this mean that the prosecution will be able to recall witnesses on rebuttal?
I guess I am wondering this ... the prosecution presents their case, the defense presents their case, then what? Witnesses can be called back by the prosecution prior to closing arguments?
 
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