George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[dixiegirl1035]

I did the mistake of checking twitter last night.... couldn't find a link last night that I could post but I see it's being reported this morning.

This jury absolutely should have been sequestered last week IMO she also said he should be found guilty of 1st degree murder. (which we know he isn't even charged with)

Maxine Waters urges Minnesota protesters to 'stay on the street' if Chauvin acquitted in Floyd case

Asked about the Derek Chauvin murder trial in Minneapolis, Waters told reporters if the former police officer isn't found guilty of murdering George Floyd, "We've got to stay on the street and we've got to get more active, we've got to get more confrontational. We've got to make sure that they know that we mean business."

Supposition based on an obvious fallacy?

= 100% Discounted opinion MOO

 

[bluebird69]

Perhaps the same reasons that his co-workers, trainers, the chief of police etc etc testified without being paid "consultants"?

I'm not in USA but assumed it was only experts who were eligible to be paid. Do all witnesses get recompensed for their time? First time I have followed a trial btw.

 

[turaj]

Supposition based on an obvious fallacy?

= 100% Discounted opinion MOO

When the schools send out a notice that they will not be open for "in person" learning starting Wed. I think any juror that is a parent (or not) can "read the tea leaves"!!! Sending a message loud and clear the impact this verdict has on the community and not much of a reach to know what vote will get what result. I think the lack of sequestration starting last Monday when Nelson asked again is a real cause for appeal...up to that time maybe up for debate. This would have meant packing bags one week early...doing closings on Friday...maybe even allow deliberations on Sat. I know nothing about the process but given hotel occupancy downtown I would think having a floor locked down would not be difficult...I am sure judge Cahill is getting messaging loud and clear from his superiors to avoid this at all cost (the cost is a factor) but ultimately it is his decision. Curfew and violence in Brooklyn Center every night and at least one juror lives in that community. But all over Minneapolis things are tense and that school notice really tells the tale. Tense times here in Minneapolis

 

[MsBetsy]

I had hoped the prosecution would have had 9 minutes and 29 seconds
of silence in the courtroom so the jury would feel the impact of how long
Chauvin had his knee on the neck of Floyd--

I was thinking the same thing. They've done it before in other trials. Nine minutes and 26 seconds of silence, with the prosecutor narrating just a few times, pointing out Floyd's lifting his chest off the ground, using his thumb and knuckle to take a breathe, and highlighting the moment he stopped breathing. Then silence for the next three minutes.

If he does it during closing it would be perfect. Then he can remind the jury that in this case they CAN believe their own eyes.

 

[missy1974]

Perhaps the same reasons that his co-workers, trainers, the chief of police etc etc testified without being paid "consultants"?

They work for the State, they were still paid to be there, it's part of their job. She is actually normally a paid witness, I see a difference. JMO

 

[missy1974]

When the schools send out a notice that they will not be open for "in person" learning starting Wed. I think any juror that is a parent (or not) can "read the tea leaves"!!! Sending a message loud and clear the impact this verdict has on the community and not much of a reach to know what vote will get what result. I think the lack of sequestration starting last Monday when Nelson asked again is a real cause for appeal...up to that time maybe up for debate. This would have meant packing bags one week early...doing closings on Friday...maybe even allow deliberations on Sat. I know nothing about the process but given hotel occupancy downtown I would think having a floor locked down would not be difficult...I am sure judge Cahill is getting messaging loud and clear from his superiors to avoid this at all cost (the cost is a factor) but ultimately it is his decision. Curfew and violence in Brooklyn Center every night and at least one juror lives in that community. But all over Minneapolis things are tense and that school notice really tells the tale. Tense times here in Minneapolis

I totally agree with this and thank you for giving a local perspective! I can see why Cahill didn't do it in the beginning... but when the situation clearly changed, his decision should have too. Then you add high profile officials saying if he isn't convicted of 1st degree murder... which he will NEVER be because it's not even an option... ugggh

I'm all for fairness and accepting/respecting a juries decision, but when you add all of this in, I just don't know...

Stay safe @turaj and any other locals.

 

[MsBetsy]

They work for the State, they were still paid to be there, it's part of their job. She is actually normally a paid witness, I see a difference. JMO

Yes, but it's extremely rare for the police to testify against the police. I think they were all there because they felt it was important to do the right thing, and to ensure that justice is served. I don't see any difference in Dr. Thomas's reason for testifying.

 

[bluebird69]

Yes, but it's extremely rare for the police to testify against the police. I think they were all there because they felt it was important to do the right thing, and to ensure that justice is served. I don't see any difference in Dr. Thomas's reason for testifying.

If called as a witness is there an option to decline or is it like in Uk that you must attend?

 

[missy1974]

Yes, but it's extremely rare for the police to testify against the police. I think they were all there because they felt it was important to do the right thing, and to ensure that justice is served. I don't see any difference in Dr. Thomas's reason for testifying.

I understand what you are saying, and you have a right to your opinion, as do I.

But, every officer that was there, was there for a reason, they weren't there to give their opinion on the case and leave. They all had some sort of involvement with the case directly, they responded to the scene, they trained, they know the policies, etc. Not one of them was there to just give an opinion and leave.

IMO Nelson used those witnesses to his advantage. He got a lot of good points in during cross exam.

 

[missy1974]

If called as a witness is there an option to decline or is it like in Uk that you must attend?

It's part of their job, but I think they would have been subpoenaed .... The ME, fire, EMS, the police. Just as an example... the medical training officer, they extended her subpoena, or issued a new one when she had to come back for the defense because the State objected to some questioning when she was called for the State.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm not in USA but assumed it was only experts who were eligible to be paid. Do all witnesses get recompensed for their time? First time I have followed a trial btw.

EXCELLENT correction of my post, thank you. I was thinking of those that had been retired, but they indeed were not "qualified experts"

Appreciate the push back for others and myself.

 

[bluebird69]

EXCELLENT correction of my post, thank you. I was thinking of those that had been retired, but they indeed were not "qualified experts"

Appreciate the push back for others and myself.

Sorry it was a genuine question, not a criticism at all, just unsure of the legalese.

 

[MsBetsy]

I understand what you are saying, and you have a right to your opinion, as do I.

But, every officer that was there, was there for a reason, they weren't there to give their opinion on the case and leave. They all had some sort of involvement with the case directly, they responded to the scene, they trained, they know the policies, etc. Not one of them was there to just give an opinion and leave.

IMO Nelson used those witnesses to his advantage. He got a lot of good points in during cross exam.

That's true, but I think they all made it clear that Chauvin used excessive force when it was not warranted. They didn't have to do that. Dr. Thomas said she testified because she thought it was important, and I think the officers felt it was important probably for the same reasons. Many officers in the MPD signed a letter condemning the officers actions early on in the case.

The Police Department that Barry Brodd had previously worked for disagreed so strongly with him that they issued a statement in response to his testimony. Imo

 

[turaj]

I totally agree with this and thank you for giving a local perspective! I can see why Cahill didn't do it in the beginning... but when the situation clearly changed, his decision should have too. Then you add high profile officials saying if he isn't convicted of 1st degree murder... which he will NEVER be because it's not even an option... ugggh

I'm all for fairness and accepting/respecting a juries decision, but when you add all of this in, I just don't know...

Stay safe @turaj and any other locals.

thank you...I stay well away from the "action".....I think acquittal/manslaughter or even 3rd will not fly with the protestors and the out of town high profile organizers. Any of those is no better than he would have plead to right after the crime. Second Degree Murder may spell justice to some of them and to me it is the appropriate verdict but as I read this board (which I really value the opinions) I see we are not at all united in where this is going and could be the same for the jury. The next order of business here in Mn. is to get charges upgraded for Ms. Potter who shot Duane Wright as the comparison with the Noor shooting are making this look like a white officer is getting preferential treatment. I also agree with that.

 

[missy1974]

If called as a witness is there an option to decline or is it like in Uk that you must attend?

I don't think they can, I just checked their policies and did a quick search lol But I think the prosecution would interview them beforehand, and if they thought their testimony might not be favourable, they don't have to call them either, unless there is something they just can't avoid for the case.

There were a lot of officers that responded to the scene later that night, they didn't call all of them, because some would have been repetitive, some didn't 'add' to the case, and who knows, maybe some weren't 'favourable' to the State position.

JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Sorry it was a genuine question, not a criticism at all, just unsure of the legalese.

@bluebird69 Please take my feedback as genuine. I REALLY do appreciate push back and was not at all being snarky. Criticism is good as to critique. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

If called as a witness is there an option to decline or is it like in Uk that you must attend?

I think they have to testify unless they have a legitimate reason not to. In this case I think they were more than willing to testify. They probably wish they could have said more if they had been allowed. Imo

 

[RANCH]

I think they have to testify unless they have a legitimate reason not to. In this case I think they were more than willing to testify. They probably wish they could have said more if they had been allowed. Imo

If these witness's were subpoenaed what would by an example of a legitimate reason to defy it?

 

[kittythehare]

If these witness's were subpoenaed what would by an example of a legitimate reason to defy it?

They could plead illness on the day, that's always legitimate, for one.
They could be 'hostile witnesses' responding in monosyllables or incoherently. They could show up drunk or stoned..

 

[RANCH]

They could plead illness on the day, that's always legitimate, for one.
They could be 'hostile witnesses' responding in monosyllables or incoherently. They could show up drunk or stoned..

If the witness is faking illness it would not be a legitimate reason. They could postpone testimony if a real illness wasn't severe.

The other examples look like a good way to get a contempt of court charge. JMO.