George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[MsBetsy]

Does anyone else think that the prosecution held back the 2 events which were decided to be allowed in a motions hearing for later sur-rebuttal to make it more effective? (Assuming Minnesota has such)

One of the events was praise for turning someone into recovery position. He KNEW

I was wondering about that. It would definitely help to show that Chauvin knew very well what the proper procedure was, and how crucial every second is when the suspect is in a similar life threatening situation.

 

[missy1974]

Does anybody know who called EMS and who upgraded the call to a level 3? TIA.

Through dispatcher's testimony, it says car 330 (Thao and Chauvin), she wasn't able to say which of the 2 called the Code 3. I can't recall at the moment if we heard that on Thao's body cam footage. When I catch up, I'll go see if I can find it.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

We were talking about his escalation of force, use of force and neck restraint training.

He was cleared by supervisors when he used a neck restraint on a subject for 17 minutes. Would he have been cleared in this case if GF had lived? Probably. IMO And likely they wouldn’t have banned chokeholds in Minneapolis.

This is what I’m hung up on. But the jury won’t have any of this information because the judge didn’t allow it. JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Through dispatcher's testimony, it says car 330 (Thao and Chauvin), she wasn't able to say which of the 2 called the Code 3. I can't recall at the moment if we heard that on Thao's body cam footage. When I catch up, I'll go see if I can find it.

View attachment 292621

Thao did, it's in his interview with the BCA. I did a post upthread that even had the timestamp in that interview of when he said it.

 

[wasnt_me]

He was cleared by supervisors when he used a neck restraint on a subject for 17 minutes. Would he have been cleared in this case if GF had lived? Probably. IMO And likely they wouldn’t have banned chokeholds in Minneapolis.

This is what I’m hung up on. But the jury won’t have any of this information because the judge didn’t allow it. JMO

I don't know much about what's not presented in the trial. I will say, though, that it's one thing for DC to be trained not to do it. It's another thing for him to be allowed to get away with doing what he is trained not to do.

It's like a person speeding 90 miles an hour all their life and police letting them out of tickets. Eventually, they kill someone in a speeding accident and no one lets them out of the murder charge. That's how I view that.

 

[casesensitive]

Conversely, I tend to think that Chauvin was accustomed to acting 'old school'. When he had been retrained in newer policy.

Something that happens in all professions. Updated methods and policy are introduced and people are expected to comply.

I agree that some "old school" people might not easily adapt to change and it does happen in all professions. (most of the people who resist change end up being fired imo). But as a cop, his ongoing training demanded compliance to LE's warnings on the danger of putting a person in the prone position. That's not a lesson that any cop should ignore, regardless of their experience and years on the force.

I agree with you in part (looking for an explanation for a career cop who wont adopt change) but it is obvious that he has acted in a similar way throughout his career, regardless of regular training, and despite many complaints. He should have been fired years ago, and the fact that he wasn't, gave him more power to be capable of being charged for murder. jmo

 

[missy1974]

Let me be more clear.

The state hasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt that DC acted with a depraved heart or mind. I think it's possible that he was doing his job as he was trained to do it.

Thank you for saying this! I think this is what I am struggling with.
And like it or not, the State put on witnesses that agreed with the State position and then Nelson got many of them to agree with his/Chauvin's position (the hazard of putting on too many witnesses?) It has left me waivering on whether he was doing what was acceptable on May 25 2020.

 

[Gibbo214]

Casey Anthony was acquitted because the jury used comments made by defense attorneys as evidence.

I don't think that will happen in this case. JMO

I believe Casey Anthony was acquitted because the jury had been sequestered for too long.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

BRB.... I'll go grab a link.. it's in the media thread the numbers...

ETA: Here you go @BoyThatsWeird as to the list with the original numbers for you.

That is perfect! Thank you for taking the time to locate/link this!

 

[missy1974]

Gotcha, I was using it as a segue way to focus on the charges that will be given to the jury for a discussion tangent.

In the end, it will be the specific jury charge instructions that folks will have to knit their way through to determine and focus on MOO.

I was reading both the State and Defense proposed jury instructions the other day. I think the jury instructions that the judge decides on will make a difference after comparing the 2.
I imagine we will be discussing them while the jury is deliberating

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Thank you for saying this! I think this is what I am struggling with.
And like it or not, the State put on witnesses that agreed with the State position and then Nelson got many of them to agree with his/Chauvin's position (the hazard of putting on too many witnesses?) It has left me waivering on whether he was doing what was acceptable on May 25 2020.

I was struggling with this too. IMO the state hasn't proven it without a reasonable doubt.

 

[missy1974]

You're more than welcome. Sometimes a link can help clarify things. JMO

I had missed that in her testimony, so thanks from me too! I am a link kinda girl (as you know haha), so you know I appreciate that

 

[MsBetsy]

Through dispatcher's testimony, it says car 330 (Thao and Chauvin), she wasn't able to say which of the 2 called the Code 3. I can't recall at the moment if we heard that on Thao's body cam footage. When I catch up, I'll go see if I can find it.

View attachment 292621

I think Thao said that he called, but it was because the crowd was getting bigger, or something like that.

 

[wasnt_me]

I think Thao said that he called, but it was because the crowd was getting bigger, or something like that.

From what I recall, Thao said he asked if they'd been called. Then he either suggested or called himself to step it up to 3 because of the crowd. I do remember that mention of the crowd having something to do with upping the code. His and Lang statements are the only things I've seen that aren't in trial.

 

[Mony Mony]

Thao did, it's in his interview with the BCA. I did a post upthread that even had the timestamp in that interview of when he said it.

Does the jury know who escalated the call?

 

[missy1974]

He was cleared by supervisors when he used a neck restraint on a subject for 17 minutes. Would he have been cleared in this case if GF had lived? Probably. IMO And likely they wouldn’t have banned chokeholds in Minneapolis.

This is what I’m hung up on. But the jury won’t have any of this information because the judge didn’t allow it. JMO

I would consider introducing that myself if I was Nelson. But JMO

 

[missy1974]

Thao did, it's in his interview with the BCA. I did a post upthread that even had the timestamp in that interview of when he said it.

Yep, but the jurors have not watched that BCA video. I got the impression the poster was looking for what the jury know's, I could be wrong!

 

[mickey2942]

I agree that some "old school" people might not easily adapt to change and it does happen in all professions. (most of the people who resist change end up being fired imo). But as a cop, his ongoing training demanded compliance to LE's warnings on the danger of putting a person in the prone position. That's not a lesson that any cop should ignore, regardless of their experience and years on the force.

I agree with you in part (looking for an explanation for a career cop who wont adopt change) but it is obvious that he has acted in a similar way throughout his career, regardless of regular training, and despite many complaints. He should have been fired years ago, and the fact that he wasn't, gave him more power to be capable of being charged for murder. jmo

Chauvin had been a police officer since 2001. Maybe he was trained at that time to hold people down with a knee on the neck. And even though, things changed, he never did...

 

[missy1974]

That is perfect! Thank you for taking the time to locate/link this!

If you have hours of nuttin but time... Law and Crime youtube channel has an archive of the jury selection.

Jury Selection:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoW1SIeAWaWaPI9_Ns04h-4eld8c6Q8Ge

Trial videos:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoW1SIeAWaWaKZVNz3OFNMkdy_NLc_L4J

Trial Hightlights:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoW1SIeAWaWYYmAZeSlvJwCXQAeODkaEK

 

[wasnt_me]

I want to clarify this information about DC training in excited delirum since there was a contention about whether or not DC was trained in it and its relevance to the trial.

The judge told the jury that the testimony was only for them to know what Thomas Lang was talking about on the bodycam when he mentioned excited delirum. The judge said the jury was not to consider it for any other purpose because there has been no indication that DC had the training.

This is training the witness said she primarily offers in the academy. This doesn't mean that DC never heard of it or had never been trained in it. The court does not tell us either way. The court does tell us it can't be used in consideration with DC's actions.

Note at about 8:30, Nelson asks if it excited delirum is discussed with recuits and cadets. She affirms it. He asked if it has been discussed in service training generally. She says it has, but not with the medical support team. Nelson clarifies, asking if it was during use of force training, and she says correct. To me, that means he was likely trained on it, just not by her division. You're free to disagree, though.

On cross, at 10:08 or there around, the prosecutor clarifies that veteran officers are taught to provide CPR when someone has no pulse, and DC would have received CPR training on a regular basis.