George/Lexus & Casey's Contact Pattern

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shadow of my mind said:
Casey called Cindy's cell 4 times starting at 5:32,5:35, 5:54 with no apparent conversations and 3 calls to the A's home one at 5:54 for 3 minuets and then again at 7:18PM for 5 minuets at 8:30PM for 3 minuets all on 6/23.
Could Cindy have discovered the shed had been broken into when she got home from work on 6/23, George would not have been at home and Cindy told Casey that she better get those darn cans back before her father found them missing and called in a report to LE. [A typical way for Cindy to handle things was to use the threat of some type of authority such as the police to get Casey to fess up from what we have seen so far.] George gets up the next day and decides to mow the lawn and discovers for himself that the shed had been broken into makes his call to Cindy with no idea that she already knows and has told Casey. It was clear from Georges's statement that Casey was the one who said something to him 'sorry to hear about the shed'. The only one she could have heard it from was Cindy. George told LE he made up the story about wanting the chocks from her car so he could catch her in the act. What would have been the point of trying that end game run on Casey if he was aware that Cindy had spoken to Casey and basically tipped her off.
He didn't know that Cindy had said anything to Casey unitl Casey opened her mouth and bascily told him. George did something that Cindy probaly never did and that was follow through. George continued to force the issue and started heading to the car but Casey beat him ...and we know the rest.

I feel like I'm in one of those sci fi movies where you are stuck in some weird time warp and the days keep repeating but each time there is just a little something that is different. :bang:
Click to expand...

Yes, plausible, IMHO. See my earlier post.
 
wanttohelp said:
Just wanted to that BB saw the truck, heard casey on the 23. This would go with finding cans missing the 24. On greta Aug 6 George states he believes the last time he went in the shed was the 22, and the everything was fine, so he believes they were stolen after that.
Also the theory that Cindy found out and warned Casey to get them back before her dad noticed also couldn't have worked for the same reason. Cindy not talking to her before 2:30 still couldn't have let her know that George knew, and George says casey said "so mom told me about the cans".
BTW I had looked up, and thought I had mentioned the Lexus dealership is on the same road as Gentiva about a mile away.
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_fzf43g
Click to expand...

FWIW...I believe strongly that Brian B. has tranposed a sighting of Tony and Sean D. I believe he saw Tony/Jeep on 6/23 when Tony assisted break-in of sheds to get gas cans w/ tire iron. Brian saw Sean D. on 7/3 when he took Casey by G&C's after getting her tattoo.

Cindy talked w/ Casey 6/23PM, per above. This may have been tipping Casey off 'bout the cans.

I don't trust the level of detail of George's statement about how exactly the convo went between them. IMHO, it could've gone either way...he brought it up & Casey knew he knew from Cindy...or Casey didn't know he knew and just went along (e.g. "uh huh...yeh...that's too bad" sorta thing) Or she brought it up having been tipped off by Cindy the night before. Or she got an email...I dunno. I'm inclined to think Casey wouldn't have brought it up on her own as I think she was prolly trying go get them back in the shed (esp. if she'd been tipped off) and prolly just figured she'd wait until George left. I know it wouldn't make sense to George for them to magically re-appear...but, hey.....one inconsistency at a time :bang:

A mile away??...that's a stretch to be visually watching for someone...IMHO. Someone sitting @ a desk by a big window (like @ dealerships) could watch to see if her car went by...but that's a pretty tall task to rely on....just thinkin' out loud.
 
Not that it makes any difference with Bond's theory other than perhaps supporting it a little more, but the spreadsheet columns are skewed by one row for the 24th, (i.e. cell towers don't line up properly with the time stamps, when comparing with ATT records). Actually, the "flurry" of calls to Cindy make more sense:

2:15:01 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Amy H. 23.6 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
2:40 PM Writes on Troy's Facebook she still has yet to move into the house. hell, in the past 9 days, i haven't even been living at the house. DRAMMMMMA. i'll fill ya in later on.
2:42:26 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
2:48:20 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.6 Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
2:49:06 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) No Long/Lat Association (call does not connect)
2:49:31 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home (call does not connect)
2:49:47 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) No Long/Lat Association (call does not connect)
2:50:11 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) 1.7 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
2:55:27 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Tony L. (Cell) 0.6 Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
2:59:22 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Amy H. 13.2 Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
3:00:52 PM INCOMING TEXT Voicemail Casey A. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt

It's clear that KC gets off the phone w/ Amy as she arrives in the home. She says hi to her dad and says she has not much time - an event that evening. George asks where Caylee is, and she says she is with the nanny. Then, apparently, she gets on the computer and posts that comment to Troy. I find that strange. :waitasec:

Soon after the gas can incident occurs, and she takes off. Calls Lexus first and speaks to the "lookout", but it is a pretty short call. Then she tries Cindy, but cannot get a cell connection the first three times. Finally reaches her on the fourth attempt as she is heading north.
 
JWG said:
I only see calls to the Lexus Dealer on June 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 24, and 25. I do believe George worked security there, but now coming around to Bond's thought that there may have been a "lookout", or someone KC can call to ask "hey, has my dad gotten there yet?" There are four such calls on the 25th, and KC never shows at her parent's that day, indicating that GA stayed home.

But, wondering why she would need a lookout on the 16th if she was at her 'rents already as indicated by computer pings.

Unless, at 3:00, she went up to Lee's, and then needed to head back to their house before going to AL's. :waitasec:

Might explain the flurry for both parents...checking if the coast is clear from Lee's.
Click to expand...

Double-checked the pings on the 16th, and I should have known better as I have checked and re-checked them more times than I should. :banghead:

If KC is at Lee's ~4:10 when the flurry of calls are made and she is making those calls to see if "the coast is clear", she must come to the conclusion it is not clear because she heads north towards Tony's immediately afterward.
 
Just want to point out ONE more time. George says he works at the hole pile, back on Pershings avenue, and has for 5 months.
For everyone that thinks George works at Lexus have you found anything that states this? Anything at all that supports this?

As far as a look out for Cindy, I am not saying I thought someone sat watching for her car all day. I think for the few times call were to Lexus, if she knew someone there she may beg them to go drive and check if her mom's car was at work.

I still believe somehow she was contacting Cindy at this number. The no calls in July could also account for Cindy was on vacation, then communication pretty much was left at texting once that was over.
 
JWG said:
Not that it makes any difference with Bond's theory other than perhaps supporting it a little more, but the spreadsheet columns are skewed by one row for the 24th, (i.e. cell towers don't line up properly with the time stamps, when comparing with ATT records). Actually, the "flurry" of calls to Cindy make more sense:

2:15:01 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Amy H. 23.6 Tower 57: 0.5 mi NW of TonE L Apt
2:40 PM Writes on Troy's Facebook she still has yet to move into the house. hell, in the past 9 days, i haven't even been living at the house. DRAMMMMMA. i'll fill ya in later on.
2:42:26 PM INCOMING TEXT MySpace Casey A. Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
2:48:20 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.6 Tower 8: 1.5 mi S of Anthony Home @ Tow Yard
2:49:06 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) No Long/Lat Association (call does not connect)
2:49:31 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home (call does not connect)
2:49:47 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) No Long/Lat Association (call does not connect)
2:50:11 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell) 1.7 Tower 22: 1.5 mi NW of Anthony Home
2:55:27 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Tony L. (Cell) 0.6 Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
2:59:22 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Amy H. 13.2 Tower 36: 1 mi NW of Chris S Home, 1.5 mi SE of Amscot
3:00:52 PM INCOMING TEXT Voicemail Casey A. Tower 58: 0.5 mi NE of TonE L Apt

It's clear that KC gets off the phone w/ Amy as she arrives in the home. She says hi to her dad and says she has not much time - an event that evening. George asks where Caylee is, and she says she is with the nanny. Then, apparently, she gets on the computer and posts that comment to Troy. I find that strange. :waitasec:

Soon after the gas can incident occurs, and she takes off. Calls Lexus first and speaks to the "lookout", but it is a pretty short call. Then she tries Cindy, but cannot get a cell connection the first three times. Finally reaches her on the fourth attempt as she is heading north.
Click to expand...

So what was the point of her call at 11:20? She would have been told the coast was not clear if this was a look out, so why go to the house?
 
I'm gonna take up the purpose of the "flurry" calls on the 6/16 ping thread so as not to clog this one up.

But, in summary, it appears to me the "flurry" was an in-transit attempt to establish Caylee-care that night...to drop Caylee @ Gentiva w/ Cindy as has been stated she'd done many times before.

That the "flurry" is bookended to calls to Lexus w/ short duration (34 & 98 seconds) appears to me to be just long enough for Casey to dial an extension after dialing a switchboard, and waiting for whomever (George?) to pick-up and ask, "Where's Mom today? I haven't been able to reach her?" Or..waiting for whomever to be paged to come to the phone for similar, brief convo.

I hear what you're sayin' Wanttohelp. Not much to prove George @ Lexus... yet. Certainly no more or less than to prove it was Cindy, IMHO...yet.
 
Wish I had the guts to call Lexus and and just ask if George ever worked there....explain there are call records with Lexus' number.....and that we are trying to figure out why KC would call the Lexus dealership!

I'm a wimp!

ETA: I don't think it's to talk to GA or a look out for CA. I don't think anyone would be willing to go drive down and check on CA's car while they are working!
 
Hi WantToHelp & Bond & JWG & all:

Something's bugged me about the Lexus thing - like I thought we learned here in the forum that the Lexus calls/number was identified incorrectly at somepoint in the docs. I found this link to some docs.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155616.pdf
(please see page 20 for spreadsheet of Casey Anthony phone logs)

The phone number & call times you are identifying as Lexus on 6/16 - on this log - are identified as Gentiva. I called the number - it is Gentiva.

It's just been bugging me because I remember reading here in the forum something about the Lexus number being corrected to Gentiva. IIRC.

See what you think. Page 20. 6/16/08. Call times 4:14 (16:14) and 4:19 (16:19). Clearly identified as Gentiva.
Where on your logs, these calls from Casey are identified these calls as calls to Lexus.

I don't know which call logs you are using, that say Lexus. Maybe we can find out which of these call logs was issued most recently.

I'm looking for any info I can find to go with this document dump that says call records were corrected from a previous dump.
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76112&page=2

Above is the thread I remembered reading - where this 2nd doc dump of casey's phone log had the Lexus calls changed to Gentiva.

JWG, Bond, you were discussing this back then on this particular thread, page 2. So, likely you already know about this.

(Sorry if I've brought up a document dump you've already reviewed and determined to be wrong - with regard to a possible Gentiva/Lexus phone switch.)

Crazy how little things stick in your head and just bug you when they come up again later, such that you have to go back and dig, if you want any sleep at all. Isn't it? Okay, maybe I'm crazy. If I am, this case is my excuse. :crazy:
 
It's Not the Nanny said:
Wish I had the guts to call Lexus and and just ask if George ever worked there....explain there are call records with Lexus' number.....and that we are trying to figure out why KC would call the Lexus dealership!

I'm a wimp!

ETA: I don't think it's to talk to GA or a look out for CA. I don't think anyone would be willing to go drive down and check on CA's car while they are working!
Click to expand...

Not a whimp kermi-nanny, your probably smarter thant the rest, but it has been done, and they did not know GA at either the main number or the service location..
 
Emma Peel said:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76112&page=2

Above is the thread I remembered reading - where this 2nd doc dump of casey's phone log had the Lexus calls changed to Gentiva.

JWG, Bond, you were discussing this back then on this particular thread, page 2. So, likely you already know about this.

(Sorry if I've brought up a document dump you've already reviewed and determined to be wrong - with regard to a possible Gentiva/Lexus phone switch.)

Crazy how little things stick in your head and just bug you when they come up again later, such that you have to go back and dig, if you want any sleep at all. Isn't it? Okay, maybe I'm crazy. If I am, this case is my excuse. :crazy:
Click to expand...

This was the confusion created by the "toll call" log LE released. They made some errors in that log. JWG toiled away for hours on a mistake they made re: Matt Crisp, IIRC. Then we spotted the Lexus/Gentiva thing...

When you go back to the raw report created by AT&T you get the real deal.
 
Can someone link to the raw AT&T data just so we can all confirm that we're not crazy?
 
BondJamesBond said:
This was the confusion created by the "toll call" log LE released. They made some errors in that log. JWG toiled away for hours on a mistake they made re: Matt Crisp, IIRC. Then we spotted the Lexus/Gentiva thing...

When you go back to the raw report created by AT&T you get the real deal.
Click to expand...

Wow. Like I said. :crazy:

Thanks for explaining.

So, now all I'm left with is ... she was shopping for a new car?
 
AZlawyer said:
Can someone link to the raw AT&T data just so we can all confirm that we're not crazy?
Click to expand...

I have never seen a link on a news website. I think most of us have grabbed copies that were uploaded to DocStoc. If you go to DocStoc, register, and search on "casey anthony cell phone records" you will find them in 5 files consuming about 125 MB.
 
BondJamesBond said:
This was the confusion created by the "toll call" log LE released. They made some errors in that log. JWG toiled away for hours on a mistake they made re: Matt Crisp, IIRC. Then we spotted the Lexus/Gentiva thing...

When you go back to the raw report created by AT&T you get the real deal.
Click to expand...

Just to add, the "logs" that were released in the late November document dumps were created by LE from the ATT information. IIRC one of the document dumps (may have been the same one) included an exchange between ATT and OCSO in which ATT claimed they did not have the records in digital format so they faxed hardcopy. Uh, wonder what they extracted and printed the hardcopy from :waitasec:.

So OCSO had to do what we had to do - manually create tables or spreadsheets from the hardcopy.

The sleuther's process was to scan the documents in and use OCR software to get the information "close", import it into a spreadsheet and manually make corrections as necessary. Lot's of keen eyes looking at the data and cross-checking acted as our quality control. Nevertheless, I find errors all the time.

I am guessing LE had far fewer man hours to invest than what the Sleuthosphere could invest, so they focused on just specific days of interest. Data was manually transcribed from the records. While LE had (presumably) better information on who had what number, mistakes were still easy to make in the transcription process.

At the end of the day, we have to take the ATT records as being the golden source. If an error had been found in them by LE and corrected, how could any of the ATT record be trusted?

I have wondered if this is something we could offer to LE and the SA's office - our spreadsheet (after a final, solid, once-over) and their number ownership.
 
Still working on this...

To work from the angle of "If it wasn't George..." I looked @ Casey's call patterns today with virtually everyone of her known numbers for something that might help.

This brought me to one conclusion...again, if it wasn't George...

...I propose Lexus may = Ricardo, and, further, that Ricardo left DRF for Lexus, then returned to DRF.

Earlier in this thread JWG made a similar observation. I just came back around to look over the possibilities again, and, believe this is the best conclusion I can make based on the information we have. At this point it DOES NOT appear that Lexus=George.

Drawing this conclusion based on:
1) There are no intermingled contacts in the pattern chronologically for DRF & Lexus
2) The time of day pattern is consistent in the calls between Casey=>DRF & Lexus
3) The time of day pattern is consistent w/ Ricardo's stated work hours, 11AM-8PM
4) The duration of calls post-break-up is consistent
5) The daytime-only calls post break-up owing to Casey being w/ Tony in the PM and unable to call
6) Offers a soln for the 6/24/08 11:20AM call from Casey to Lexus, 6.2 min, that appeared exclusive to George's filing police report for stolen gas cans ~10:40AM, & returning to work @ 3PM to start his shift
7) George's stated assignment to the "Pershing hole" (sp?) during this period w/ "Pershing" also appearing on his timecard records


IF Lexus=Ricardo, it appears Ricardo may have told Casey about the change on their call 6/13.

...more to consider on what, if any, implications of the contact w/ Ricardo 6/16=>
Lexus is located across and down University Blvd, a 1.5 mile drive from Tony's apartment.
One of the two cell towers that services Tony's apartment is located behind the Lexus lot :eek:

Snip of data for calls Casey=>DRF & Lexus & Ricardo 6/13-6/28:

Date DOW Time Type From: To: Dur (min)
6/13/08 FRI 12:26:55 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Ricardo M. 4.6
6/16/08 MON 4:10:41 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.6
6/16/08 MON 4:14:48 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 1.6
6/17/08 TUE 2:12:56 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 2.5
6/17/08 TUE 2:29:19 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Ricardo M. 1.2
6/18/08 WED 12:33:17 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.9
6/18/08 WED 4:13:26 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 1.4
6/19/08 THU 4:20:20 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 2.1
6/20/08 FRI 1:51:19 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.2
6/20/08 FRI 2:54:38 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 5.4
6/21/08 SAT 10:44:02 PM OUTGOING TEXT Casey A. Ricardo M.
6/21/08 SAT 10:45:36 PM OUTGOING TEXT Casey A. Ricardo M.
6/21/08 SAT 10:47:06 PM OUTGOING TEXT Casey A. Ricardo M.
6/24/08 TUE 11:20:01 AM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 6.2
6/24/08 TUE 2:48:20 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.6
6/25/08 WED 12:52:46 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.9
6/25/08 WED 1:36:41 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.8
6/25/08 WED 2:13:01 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 4.8
6/25/08 WED 2:18:03 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Lexus Dlrshp 0.0
6/28/08 SAT 8:54:44 AM OUTGOING TEXT Casey A. Ricardo M.
6/28/08 SAT 8:56:15 AM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. DRF Dlrshp
6/28/08 SAT 8:58:13 AM OUTGOING TEXT Casey A. Ricardo M.
 
Ricardo makes much more sense. She seems to call there immediately after the gas can incident. You know she needed to "reach out" to someone that gets her family situation to VENT. Ricardo fits that bill.
 
Also adds great interest to the "flurry" calls 6/16...similar to 6/9...only 6/9 change Lexus to DRF...which is what turned me onto checking this out further.

Here's the 6/9 flurry I've been talking about in recent weeks:

6/9/08 MON 4:55:16 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Tony L. (Cell)
6/9/08 MON 4:59:00 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
6/9/08 MON 4:59:24 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
6/9/08 MON 5:00:44 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
6/9/08 MON 5:01:06 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
6/9/08 MON 5:01:36 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Cindy A. (Cell)
6/9/08 MON 5:07:26 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. DRF Dlrshp
6/9/08 MON 5:42:14 PM INCOMING CALL Cindy A. (Cell) Casey A.
 
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