George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #12 Wed July 10

[missmazzy]

This Prosecutor is not very effective. But then again I'm used to the very best prosecutor.

Can't wait for closing arguments.

I agree, we were spoiled.

 

[Karmady]

Thanks. I think if the judge is prepared to work those hours so should the defense. West should retire if he cant take a full schedule to the point it impacts him physically. And a lot of the long days is due to motions of their own. That is just imo moo etc.
ETA and i wouild feel the same if it was one of the prosecution complaining about hours too. They should already be prepared

The judge isn't working preparing witnesses, full days of questioning, depositions on the fly, etc. obviously.

The schedule is not full -- it's oppressive, and obviously so. I think it will be error on appeal in the unlikely event it gets that far.

Suggesting that defense counsel should retire because he can't handle 14-18 hour days for weeks and months (pre-trial) on end is offensive to me. I doubt that many people could handle it or would have a job that required it. And it's totally inappropriate to impose such a burden on a defense attorney defending a murder charge based on the defendant's constitutional rights. The judge was way out of line. And I note again, that she did back off her position slightly. I'm guessing she was informed of the case law on the subject. jmo

 

[Marah]

I think the the prosecutor is schooling this guy. Why wouldn't you ask all of these questions?

 

[cityslick]

So GZ was out of shape and got over his head with his little chase the bad guy game so he says you loose, pulls out a gun and blows the kid away. What a tough guy. IMO

If you walk into a group of gang members and you are armed, and the gang members decide to jump you and then you pull out the gun and kill one of them because you're afraid, you're not a fault or a 'tough guy' for walking into a group of gang members. You're defending yourself.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Love that.. I got it from the video YOU SAID I SHOULD WATCH...

Nice job state!

 

[Skully]

I think GZ put himself in a position to have to defend himself. He followed TM. Yes, you have the right to defend yourself, and if you have a CWC you have the right to carry a gun, but at some point couldn't GZ have avoided all of this, up to the point of the shooting. Were where TM's hands at the time of him holding down GZ and hitting or banging his head? They weren't grabbing a gun, and where were GZ's hands at the time of the beating? Could he have pushed TM off and used his gun to just hold him there until cops came? When someone is on top of you and you shoot them, wouldn't up push them off of your body and to the side? How did TM end up face down? What I am I missing? IDK, no matter how this ends up, it won't be good.

 

[JeannaT]

His continued use of taking ALL the evidence into play, and not focusing on one little bitty thing that could be a matter of perception when panic has set in is refreshing.

Big picture. All the evidence. Experience.

IMHO

 

[ShadyLady]

I little late.....LOL:

I agree with you. Empathy either way is not good in a court of law, IMHO, as it clouds and compromises neutrality and objectivity, which is so crucial to true justice. IMHO, justice trumps "PC"ness, justice and truth are at the core of our values and must prevail, sleuthing is after all about getting through the layers and clues to arrive at the truth. This is why I'm going by evidence alone, trying to avoid opinions, and to detach myself from feelings for either side, but of course how I see the evidence inevitably pulls me like a magnetic force field to one side.:facepalm: :seeya:

This obviously is my opinion ...I think it's nearly impossible for humans to view something completely objectively. Yes, I do think it's important, but the resource of knowledge we have to draw from by it's very nature is our own past experiences......so I think we can only see from tinted glasses. I think ......all this, "a lot of speculation", that to see the reality, we might need to put on "others" glasses....and then triangulate.....LOL....does that even make sense??

Also....I do think we can be educated as to make "better" -----more objective analysis....but most people don't have this training. IMO

 

[defense101]

If the defense wants to clear GZ of the Wanna be Cop thing they should quit calling LE IMO

 

[DIBSY]

IMO, GZ would be the LAST person I would use to advertise ANYTHING!

Likewise...which just goes to show the Hero Perception that population in general have of George Zimmerman in terms of Whom he shot in the heart, to death. He is hugely admired in those quarters which I find totally stomach turning.

 

[costalpilot]

IMO, the judge's ruling on the admissibility of the text messages is reversible error.

http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/opinions/3D09-2781.pdf

FLORIDA VS LUMARQUE:

At an in limine hearing, the trial court found the two images and one text message the ex-wife testified to admissible, but concluded the remaining exhibits inadmissible as the ex-wife could not authenticate them. The court erred. The images and text messages were found on the defendant’s cellular telephone, seized pursuant to a search of the defendant’s home through a warrant shortly after the alleged incident. This fact, testified by the State’s forensics expert, is sufficient to authenticate these exhibits. U.S. v. Caldwell, 776 F.2d 989, 1001-02 (11th Cir.1985) (holding that authentication of evidence merely requires a finding that the evidence is what it purports to be). It also is immaterial that the ex-wife could not identify each of the messages being shown to her on the night of the incident. Regardless how these images and text messages might have found their way onto the defendant’s cellular telephone, the State has presented sufficient evidence at this stage that these exhibits constitute evidence of motive. Craig v. State, 510 So.2d 857, 863 (Fla.1987) (stating that evidence of motive is admissible when it would help the jury understand other evidence). Accordingly, they are admissible into evidence at the trial of this case upon the State laying the proper predicates as indicated by this opinion

IMOIMOIMO

this judge just had a case remanded due to improper jury instructions regarding self defense. imo.

 

[ShadyLady]

GZ was not able to defend himself without a gun. IMO

OMG...we agree on something! :drumroll:

 

[missmazzy]

I watched it and it was actually kind of funny but I felt bad for West; he also mentioned his health can't handle these hours and he was just so frustrated and MOM put his hand on West's arm b/c the Judge just stopped listening and walked off and West just kind of put his hands up in resignation of the whole thing.

And good morning all and thanks for the thread Fran

The funniest part of last night's marathon was when all the lights went out.

 

[Isabelle]

Imagine what kind of trial this would be if GZ had made it to the store and his gun mis-fired or discharged in error, killing someone in the store.

 

[rose222]

GZ shouldn't have followed TM. TM should not have confronted GZ. IMO.

 

[Mahouston69]

IMO, the judge's ruling on the admissibility of the text messages is reversible error.

http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/opinions/3D09-2781.pdf

FLORIDA VS LUMARQUE:

At an in limine hearing, the trial court found the two images and one text message the ex-wife testified to admissible, but concluded the remaining exhibits inadmissible as the ex-wife could not authenticate them. The court erred. The images and text messages were found on the defendant’s cellular telephone, seized pursuant to a search of the defendant’s home through a warrant shortly after the alleged incident. This fact, testified by the State’s forensics expert, is sufficient to authenticate these exhibits. U.S. v. Caldwell, 776 F.2d 989, 1001-02 (11th Cir.1985) (holding that authentication of evidence merely requires a finding that the evidence is what it purports to be). It also is immaterial that the ex-wife could not identify each of the messages being shown to her on the night of the incident. Regardless how these images and text messages might have found their way onto the defendant’s cellular telephone, the State has presented sufficient evidence at this stage that these exhibits constitute evidence of motive. Craig v. State, 510 So.2d 857, 863 (Fla.1987) (stating that evidence of motive is admissible when it would help the jury understand other evidence). Accordingly, they are admissible into evidence at the trial of this case upon the State laying the proper predicates as indicated by this opinion

IMOIMOIMO

I don't think so. I think it hinges on the fact Trayvon is not here to testify or explain his text messages. It's pure speculation...by anyone reading them what he is/was referring to. He could have been talking about a video game and not a real fight or gun. Like Call of Duty or Boxing video games. You know he played Xbox or ps3

 

[defense101]

If you walk into a group of gang members and you are armed, and the gang members decide to jump you and then you pull out the gun and kill one of them because you're afraid, you're not a fault or a 'tough guy' for walking into a group of gang members. You're defending yourself.

Yes but that is not what happened here, it was just a kid walking home from the 7-11 who had no ill will against GZ IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Imagine what kind of trial this would be if GZ had made it to the store and his gun mis-fired or discharged in error, killing someone in the store.

WHAT?

Nothing misfired. He had a permit and took the class. We all know this was not an accident. Not an act of ineptitude but self defense.

 

[DIBSY]

I think GZ put himself in a position to have to defend himself. He followed TM. Yes, you have the right to defend yourself, and if you have a CWC you have the right to carry a gun, but at some point couldn't GZ have avoided all of this, up to the point of the shooting. Were where TM's hands at the time of him holding down GZ and hitting or banging his head? They weren't grabbing a gun, and where were GZ's hands at the time of the beating? Could he have pushed TM off and used his gun to just hold him there until cops came? When someone is on top of you and you shoot them, wouldn't up push them off of your body and to the side? How did TM end up face down? What I am I missing? IDK, no matter how this ends up, it won't be good.

I admire your absolute objectivity. thanks for your logical synopsis and the time it took to express it here. :seeya:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes but that is not what happened here, it was just a kid walking home from the 7-11 who had no ill will against GZ IMO

You have no way of knowing that especially since he was making biased remarks about him on the phone to his friend.