George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #13 Thursday July 11

[Mahouston69]

One very honest question:
I know that all law abiding, mentally sound adults have a right to carry a concealed weapon, in Florida but I must ask...
What is the motivation...why do people feel the need to arm themselves with a CONCEALED weapon (to the grocery store, to the car wash, to the dog park, to the whatever)....What the heck do they fear so much that they need to carry a weapon everywhere except the bar, court rooms, police departments, banks, etc?

I ask WHY?

You won't like my answer. I'm a member of the NRA and carry concealed.
It's my 2nd Ammendment right, and I don't want to be a victim. Had Trayvon had a gun, he might be alive after shooting the unidentified man following him who possibly was trying to rob him or kidnap him. How many adult men are missing and profiled on this website?
I am an advocate for victims needlessly attacked, threatened, kidnapped and killed.
I am hoping for justice for the victim in all cases including this one.

 

[Just K]

In Florida, whoever ends up alive can claim they were in fear of bodily harm. If there are no other witnesses...a murderer would be found not guilty, IMO. It's like saying the last one standing, even if he is totally guilty of all provocation and ill will would still be found innocent in the State of Florida. IMO

And, that to me is insanity.

 

[Foxfire]

Where is MOM? Seems odd to have West arguing this, considering he is the object of the judge's ire.

I wonder if she's got a window up on her laptop watching the twitter feeds. She sure seemed to do a 180 yesterday after that exchange about GZ testifying.

Chester_from_THM, you may be on to something..
Noticed yesterday that MOM had his back to the Judge and was whispering to West, as to what to say to the Judge during the altercation. Guess, they were using the ole Good Attorney>Bad Attorney deflection strategy on Judge Nelson... West, seems to be the attack dog, imo...

 

[eileenhawkeye]

So, when TM told GZ he was going to die tonight........do you just ignore that? Was it OK for TM to kill GZ because he says GZ was following him? But to answer your question, if GZ didn't have a gun that night, he would have been dead or severely injured. Do you think the "star witness" would have come forward to say her boyfriend was there that night? Absolutely not!

Why was it okay for Zimmerman to defend himself but not Martin? Why couldn't Martin be in fear of his life when a man gets out of his car and starts following him?

 

[Beyond Belief]

I find this case very scary. IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

There are a lot of things that are not against the law but still can provoke anger or discord or ill feelings. A husband can cheat on his wife, or vice versa which is not against the law but look at what can happen. I'm just using that as an example of "not against the law but not a good idea to do. I can go out and provoke someone into a fight to the point of where they may even throw the 1st punch, then I get my butt kicked, kill them in self defense and have wounds to prove it, and yet I come out like the victim? Did I play a part in that? Yes, I did. I provoked someone, I may have even pushed that person but no one saw it. Hope this makes sense

This entire "event" happened because GZ made an assumption about TM - that TM was a and was there to commit a crime. If that wasn't provoking someone I don't know what is. It is easy to assume GZ didn't identify himself to TM because he believed TM was there to commit a crime or preparing to commit a crime, and was afraid of him. He was wrong.

 

[Footwarrior]

Can you link the case law where assaulting/throwing a punch at someone is legal in the cases you stated?

Did the medical examiners find George Zimmerman's blood on Martin's knuckles?

 

[Love Never Fails]

I'd bet on it. jmo

You think so? Man, I would want to get as far away from Florida as possible. Problem is, where can he go that some nut won't try to hurt him? GZ said "thank God" someone had a video of what happened that night. I wish Det Serino had been right when he told George that. But for a politically brought case, even a video would not matter to some people.

 

[danzn16]

The weapon was loaded with a magazine of bullets. It requires two hands, forethought, and a sliding motion on his gun to load a bullet into firing position. He couldn't have pinned to the ground.
I believe the fight was to gain control of the gun.
Screaming from both men.
Recoil broke Zimmerman's nose and his head hit the water cover.
Trayvon dies.

With a bullet in the chamber all you have to do is release the safety if it has one and pull the trigger, not all that you listed above. So yes you can do that pinned to the ground. Why would GZ scream if he wasn't getting beaten etc? If he methodically planned to murder him like you detailed about he wouldn't need to scream.

I mean do you believe he was shooting with a rifle or shotgun to have recoil enough to break your nose and slam your head on the ground?? Wow :banghead: also you'd have to hold it in front of your face. Handguns of that type have minimal recoil only enough to make hand move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There was testimony by RJ, where she says TM said something to the effect of "get off, get off". What does this mean? We have no eyewitnesses to the start of the confrontation, we only have GZ's statements. Who would admit to starting the confrontation if they had just killed someone? GZ had everything to gain by making this statement. This is a one sided, skewed trial because one of the two involved is not present to give a statement. GZ and TM are the only ones who truly know what happened and only one of them has anything to gain or lose at this time. IMO

I don't know. But I know that GZ never got the upper hand on TM as per the evidence. GZ was beaten. He was on top of GZ. So to me that could have been GZ yelling get off get off.

I believe that maybe their voices were not that different. I have thought a lot about that. I believe that the evidence shows it is more reasonable to believe that it was GZ yelling not TM.

 

[DIBSY]

Yes, it will be considered. I had always thought it was on the table to begin with, since 2nd degree was never a solitary charge (they can consider anything up to and including that). Imo, that's probably why the used such a heavy charge in the first place.

Many thanks, PaintingAnemone!! Great and timely info !!! IMO
I can't get over how GZ's words are taken as gospel and anything re TM must be a lie....waaaay biased to me and will not hold water in a Court of Law...we hope!!! IMO

 

[Aya]

I dont' think that GZ is awesome either...

I do think he acted in selfdefense. To me that TM does not have injuries just shows me how overpowered GZ was. That he was indeed in fear of great bodily harm and death.
Remember the law is that he only had to have REASONABLE FEAR OF... Not actual injuries or life threatening injuries.

It is horrible no matter what. Tragic.

Glad you posted!

I can see that. I'm not a fighter either but I'd like to think I'd attempt to throw some punches or the very least try to scratch the eyes out. I've never been attacked so I don't know how I would react.

This case is just so tragic as I don't see "evil". I don't like gray.

 

[robmom]

I've never liked that the State can add so many different charges, especially at the end of the case. Even if I think the person on trial is guilty as sin. The State should bring charges and either prove their case or not. How can you prepare a defense when you're never sure what the charges will end up being? Not fair, imo.

This trial is weird for me. I don't think I have ever been on the defense "side." I don't think I've ever not respected a judge. And I KNOW I've never been watching HLN and thought "Where's Mark Garagos when you need him?." (Found him on Anderson Cooper last night).

Strange case for me all around. I still think he's not guilty under Florida law but I think the jury will find him guilty. Either of Murder 2 or Manslaughter.

All MOO, IMO, etc.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Did the medical examiners find George Zimmerman's blood on Martin's knuckles?

Testimony said rain had washed off DNA and no one bagged his hands.

 

[missmazzy]

I'll just say, NBC (and the other media) did their job well when this case started last year.

Do you mean when they edited the NEN call by GZ? If so, yeah, they did their job all right.

 

[RANCH]

That's odd, with all due respect, given how many times I read here that the Judge just " spanked the state again. " Hmmmm IMO

I think the fact that the judge has spanked the state a few times shows how desperate they are at this stage. They are attempting to do things that even this biased judge can't allow. MOO.

 

[logicalgirl]

You won't like my answer. I'm a member of the NRA and carry concealed.
It's my 2nd Ammendment right, and I don't want to be a victim. Had Trayvon had a gun, he might be alive after shooting the unidentified man following him who possibly was trying to rob him or kidnap him. How many adult men are missing and profiled on this website?
I am an advocate for victims needlessly attacked, threatened, kidnapped and killed.
I am hoping for justice for the victim in all cases including this one.

I too want justice for the victim TM. If GZ had not been carrying a concealed weapon and used it - this would be an entirely different case.
To me two guns does not equal a draw. One person is going to die. With one gun - one person is going to die. IMO

 

[Isabelle]

Is there a recording of this statement, or do we only have GZ's word on what was said?

Agree and all we have is GZ's word and he has everything to gain but making this accusation. IMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

In Florida, whoever ends up alive can claim they were in fear of bodily harm. If there are no other witnesses...a murderer would be found not guilty, IMO. It's like saying the last one standing, even if he is totally guilty of all provocation and ill will would still be found innocent in the State of Florida. IMO

And, that to me is insanity.

I bet if there was a case where a woman was walking at night, and a man started following her, and she turned away and shot him, she would be praised by everyone. But in this case, Martin was being followed by Zimmerman, and Martin defended himself, but with his fists not a gun, and somehow, that justified Zimmerman killing Martin. I just don't get it.

 

[HMSHoney24]

Who besides GZ testified they saw GZ was attacked at the T?
I believe he dropped his keys to unholster his weapon and use two hands to slide the barrel, loading the gun with a bullet into the chamber.
or to later to fabricate the crime scene evidence

So, according to some, GZ was on prescribed medications (it's also been suggested that he may have been using street drugs in combination) that he could have been experiencing severe side effects from that impaired his senses and rational thinking BUT he was able to, within minutes and in an altered state (not to mention in the throes of an event that would have any of us, in some form, in distress), YET he is believed to have had the mental capacity during those minutes to have concocted a story that just so happens to fit/support physical evidence and witness testimony?

IMO, people can't have it both ways. He was either mentally impaired or a mastermind. Or, IMO, telling the truth.